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Yep, Dodger history's axis might have tilted bigtime if this one had gone through.
As Isi Baly wrote at Dodger Profiles, the Dodgers had trade talks with the Pirates during the 1989-90 offseason about acquiring Barry Bonds. You'll probably share Baly's amazement that Dodger third baseman Jeff Hamilton would have been a significant part of a Bonds-worthy package.
Today, I asked Claire what he remembered.
"I do recall we had an interest in Barry Bonds during the time period mentioned and did try to make a deal with the Pirates," Claire wrote in an e-mail. "I can't recall all of the details of the trade discussions but I know our interest in Bonds was high and we hoped to make the trade and have him play center field."
Thanks to Baly, here's an excerpt of what Ross Newhan wrote for the Times on December 22, 1989.
General Manager Larry Doughty has denied the Pittsburgh Pirates are about to deal left fielder Barry Bonds to the Dodgers for third baseman Jeff Hamilton and pitcher John Wetteland.
Doughty talked to Dodgers General Manager Fred Claire on Wednesday, but no deal was worked out.
"Fred Claire and I resolved that we didn't have a deal but that we would leave the lines open into spring training," Doughty said.
Wetteland, 23, was 5-8 with a 3.77 earned run average as a rookie last season.
"I really got the feeling that Fred Claire was not going to move one of his established pitchers," Doughty said.
If the Dodgers acquire Bonds, they would probably play him in center field, where he began his major league career. He moved to left field in 1987, when the Pirates acquired center fielder Andy Van Slyke from St. Louis.
The Pirates are interested in Hamilton so they can move third baseman Bobby Bonilla to right field.
The Dodgers' need for another outfielder lessened Thursday when they signed free-agent Hubie Brooks to a three-year, $6-million contract.
Baly added in his own post that "there was another article that stated (Tim) Belcher would be part of this deal, but I could not locate it tonight. Perhaps it was a Daily News article ..."
This is when I turn to Bob Timmermann for fast action. He found Matt McHale's Daily News article of December 22, 1989, which had much of the same news as Newhan's but added the following:
"Pittsburgh did not think John Wetteland was established enough," McHale wrote, "and wanted either Tim Belcher or Ramon Martinez, like Wetteland a rookie."
Martinez, of course, was on the cusp of several outstanding seasons for the Dodgers. He had a 3.19 ERA and 89 strikeouts in 98 2/3 innings as a 21-year-old in 1989 before blossoming in '90 with a 2.92 ERA and 223 strikeouts in 234 1/3 innings. Belcher had sub-3.00 ERAs in '88, '89 and '91 before being traded to Cincinnati with Wetteland in the ill-fated Eric Davis deal.
Bonds was coming off a simultaneously good but disappointing season in 1989 - 125 OPS+, 19 home runs - but would rev it up to become National League Most Valuable Player for the first time in 1990. Hamilton, most famous perhaps for being the losing pitcher in the Dodgers' 22-inning game in Houston in 1989, had for what it's worth his best season as a Dodger that year - 86 OPS+, 12 home runs - but played in only seven major league games in 1990, going 3 for 24, and was out of the majors for good by the end of 1991.
In retrospect, of course, almost no price seems to high to pay for Bonds circa 1989-90, but what are you gonna do? At least Martinez and Belcher pitched well for the team, for a short time (sigh). Had the deal gone through, however, this would have had a heck of a butterfly effect on Dodger and baseball history. Just one scenario: Bonds and Mike Piazza eventually in the same lineup, and with that, and with the Dodgers down a starting pitcher, maybe they wouldn't have been able to afford letting Pedro Martinez go.
And then Pedro blows out his arm two years later. Or something like that. It's always something.
Sleep well …
* * *
This is not the game chat thread. The game chat thread can be found below.
Instead of wondering what would have happened had Barry "I wont sign a ball for any guy who is or looks white" Bonds been acquired, Id be more concerned about the lack of a decent start this year, what to do with Gagne when he returns, and at what point do you start trading prospects to get that player or two to take you to the top or in the adverse, realize that veterans need to be dumped to get some more prospects so the rebuilding with the great farm system can start taking place.
The Dodgers are a mess and combined with the other teams in the division being better then anticipated is going to make this a long year.
The other thing to keep in mind is that during the 1990s, most Dodger superstars ended up disgruntled at some point or another. Straw. Piazza. Sheffield. Mondy (if he counts). None of them were gruntled. I don't think LA was a great place for star players to thrive during the early Fox/late Lasorda era. Bonds may have ended up acting out for different reasons, or in different ways.
Or, he'd have played out his contract, and answered the siren song of Daddy and Willie after a couple of years anyway.
At any rate, giving up Wetteland and Jeff Hamilton? That would have been way too much. [grunt]
He's a disgrace to baseball and to America and I can't wait until he is indicted/suspended so that he'll be gone from baseball for good.
I wouldn't have traded Chad Fonville for him.
http://tinyurl.com/ohnfb
It will really stink about that cliffhanger if the show doesn't come back though.
The LATimes article about sinking an old aircraft carrier to create a diving reef is pretty amazing, though.
It was interesting to see Claire's response.
However, don't you think Claire should have a greater recollection regarding these events? After all, Bonds would win MVP awards in three of the next four years (1990, 1992 and 1993).
26 It often seems that people should remember things more clearly than they do, and I see your point about the follow-on MVPs. But I'm not at all surprised that the details would be fuzzy for Mr. Claire after all these years, particularly details of trade talk back and forth that likely occurred in person or over the phone. It's been a long time and a lot of talks since 1989.
Claire was close to acquiring a player who would become MVP the following season, and he decides to not pull the trigger.
During the MVP awards ceremony in 1990, Claire has to be thinking about the deal he failed to make. He just has to...
You just don't forget something like that.
I couldn't forget it, and I wasn't involved in the trade talks.
(Anyway, I am just glad people are checking out my Dodger Profiles website and are finding some of the things I write interesting to read).
Really, even if he wanted to be more forthcoming, how much more is there for Claire to say? Seems pretty clear that he just wasn't comfortable giving what the Pirates were asking.
Sorry, antihistamine hangover....
http://www.cstv.com/sports/m-basebl/stories/050706add.html
http://www.southend.wayne.edu/modules/news/article.php?storyid=2574
And he's a southpaw!
Those were the days. Whatever happened to... me?
http://www.comingsoon.net/news.php?id=10086
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0467110/
http://tinyurl.com/kn6nz
Someone on a chat with the Post's Nationals' beat writer just suggested trading Jose Guillen to the Angels for prospects. It was a part of a larger question and really to my eye looked genuine.
Jose Guillen is the second coming of Alex Johnson.
Why do you think this?
Whatever happened in the past should be forgotten and start over. Hochever is still a very talented pitcher and you can never have enough pitching prospects.
I am going to find out how much they need to keep it running for the whole year and maybe we can set up a paypal account and help sponsor it as Dodger fans. I dont know, just brainstorming here.
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Former Tennessee righthander Luke Hochevar isn't a draft-and-follow in the true sense of the word, but he might be the ultimate wild card as this year's draft approaches. He remains property of the Dodgers, who drafted him as a supplemental first-round pick a year ago and are desirous of signing him even as the two parties reached a stalemate on contract negotiations last fall.
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So he thinks the Dodgers want to get a deal done.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfODSPIYwpQ
i think piazza and sheffield are mutually exclusive in this "what might have been" scenario since they were traded for each other.
i would be interested in reading someone's analysis of a "what might have been" if the dodgers had been able to keep roberto "bob" clemente. has this been covered before?
I can relate to that...
http://tinyurl.com/eurxj
I am not a fan of our pick.
its going to end may 31st and hes going to be a dodger!
Man, would I be happy if we did indeed sign Hochevar, though.
What position would the Dodgers have put a young Roberto Clemente at? They had Snider in center and Furillo in right and they were both very good at those positions. LF for the Dodgers was not a strength in Brooklyn.
Once the Dodgers got to L.A., they got a good run out of Wally Moon and Tommy Davis in left. Frank Howard eventually took over right and later it was Ron Fairly.
Would the Dodgers have kept Clemente or eventually just tried to trade him? Clemente didn't become a star until 1960. His first few years weren't anything special.
Clemente had Mondesian K-BB figures, although he had fewer of his Raul's endearing personality features.
http://www.brewcrewball.com/special/milb+teams#Lad
But then, I've been living the past 30 years uncomfortably close to
BigPhoneCompany Park. (And I never had the chance to put a Jugs gun on Bob's fastball.)
Either Kershaw, Brett Anderson, Kyle Drabek or maybe Colten Willems
What's your problem with Jeffress?
I dont have a problem with him personally, i just dont think he warrants a top 10 pick. He is a fireballer and his only plus pitch is his explosive fastball. His breaking pitch is inconsistent and fringe right now and he is still pretty raw.
with a top 10 pick im expecting a prep player to have some relative polish to him.
I'm not a fan of Morrow. He as well lacks a consistent breaking ball and he is too lacks polish. He walks too many guys and alot of scouts project him to the bullpen.
I guess I'm picky.
I got an email back, the Jaxsuns guy said its going to cost between 4-6 grand. That seems like a lot. oh well.
As an NC State fan, Herb Sendek was making my list -- and he was the coach! I was a supporter of his until this year, when he really wore out his welcome. Now I wish him good luck at ASU in the far-away PAC 10.
This comes to mind in light of the trade-for-Bonds discussion, which is a classic lose-lose proposition. Of course Claire blew it by not figuring out how to get him when he was available. And of course, if we'd gotten Bonds, he would've been a source of unending misery. And so it goes.
Home- .393/.409/.607, 61 ABs
Road- .236/.283/.436, 55 ABs
Delwyn Young:
Home- .167/.200/.250, 48 ABs
Road- .396/.467/.623, 53 ABs
Sample sizes are very small, but does anyone else find this odd?
They have certainly been unlucky in the playoffs (I'm talking more about the 1970's and 1980's). In the 1990's, they just ran out of hits in the playoffs.
How so? How many Giant fans are miserable due to the Bonds era? He's a classic "love him if he's on your team" player (maybe moreso than anyone in recent history). If he had been a Dodger this whole time, don't you think we'd be sticking up for him too?
Or are Giant fans just that lame?
sorry godwin.
Metro Center: In one of last week's games against Florida at RFK, Robinson pinch hit Joey Eischen for Livan Hernandez before bringing Eischen into the game to pitch. The Nationals were losing, but not blown out of the game at that point. Particularly because Livan can (and did that night) get base hits, why on earth would Robinson have made that move with a bench full of capable players who are paid to be able to pinch hit? At the time, we thought he was trying to get himself fired.
Barry Svrluga: It was, indeed, a baffling move, and I probably should have included it in my game story. Robinson's philosophy is that he doesn't want to burn his bench players too early because he might need them later. (Yes, it's a debatable strategy, but I'm just passing on what he says when quizzed on this stuff.)
In this instance, with Hernandez not going to return to the game, he didn't want to send Livan up and risk him pulling a muscle or something while batting in a game in which he wasn't going to continue pitching.
Make sense? I didn't think so.
My lists are on the Griddle sidebar in the links section.
There's something about superstars and the LA Dodgers that just don't mesh, for some reason. Everytime we get one, they blow up in some fashion. We traded away the greatest catcher in history. In return we got one of the best hitters of our era, but couldn't hang onto him because of bad vibes. We get a guy like Strawberry, only to find out he's on drugs. Others are good for a year then get hurt (Gibson) or we get them but only in their declining years (Kent), or we develop them and then send them to star elsewhere (Pedro). We're good at developing above-average players who have some memorable seasons for us, like Wills, Garvey, Valenzuela and Hershiser; but other than Koufax, we seem allergic to having HOF-level players on our roster in their prime. I don't know why, but there must be some reason other than sheer chance.
Good question. It's kinda like the Kobe situation. But, the Bonds' problem never goes away.
Really, that's true about Koufax too, but since his great years were so astronomically great, beyond compare almost, he was a lock despite the premature end to his career.
With Kobe, that number isn't nearly as high among Laker fans.
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