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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

Dodgers Get Stewed
2006-06-19 08:44
by Jon Weisman

Ken Arneson and Catfish Stew have things covered today - in pictures.

In case you missed it/don't forget: Dodger Thoughts Night at Dodger Stadium is Friday.

Comments (220)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-06-19 09:31:33
1.   Jacob L
I guess this belongs in the other thread, but it'll get lost down there, so please indulge me.

I went to the "Fathers Day Catch" at the stadium yesterday morning, and it was great. I was reticent at first, since my daughter is only 13 months, that I'd just be dragging her out there for my benefit, but in truth, she was not the youngest kid out there by a long shot. She's got her fastball going a good 4 feet. I'm trying to hold her off on breaking balls until she's 2 1/2 or 3. Plus, she got to eat some warning track dirt (yum).

I can't think of much direct benefit for the Dodgers in doing this (it's free), other than its just a great way to get kids into baseball. Everyone was having a blast, except, in some cases, the moms. I'd just make 2 suggestions for the future. 1) Open a concession stand and sell some hot dogs. 2) No Yankee or Giant hats allowed. I mean, come on.

2006-06-19 09:54:05
2.   Bob Timmermann
I would have played catch with my dad yesterday, but he seems to lack mobility now.
2006-06-19 10:38:59
3.   Bob Timmermann
Meanwhile in Pittsburgh, the Dbacks are finding out that the Pirates are the salve for any wound.
2006-06-19 11:05:28
4.   fanerman
2 - Same here.
2006-06-19 11:06:54
5.   Bob Timmermann
My comment wasn't designed to make anyone sad. Just my way of looking at things.
2006-06-19 11:22:36
6.   Marty
Jim Tracy proves once again, there's only so much he can do:

2006-06-19 11:31:28
7.   Bluebleeder87

I wish we had 10 games in arrow against them

2006-06-19 11:39:52
8.   Bob Timmermann
Also in the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette:

The Pirates are the lone team in the National League to use only five starters all season, a run that will end tomorrow when Wells rejoins the rotation. The Seattle Mariners are the only team in the American League to have used five. "We've done a terrific job in that regard," Tracy said. "A lot of that has to do with the way we've handled these pitchers."

Victor Santos is going on the DL and Kip Wells is coming back however.

But what if all five starters stink?

2006-06-19 11:43:14
9.   Marty
And since Pittsburgh seems to be shopping almost all of them, Tracy won't be able to say that pretty soon. Not that that's stopped him before.
2006-06-19 11:47:37
10.   Vishal
that article about kent giving up at 2nd base on ethier's fly ball and then getting doubled because he didn't care to get back to first is disheartening. and then he yelled at ethier for it. what an ass.
2006-06-19 11:49:41
11.   Humma Kavula
That article brought back everything that made last year soooooo special.

Mem'ries... light the corners of my mind...

2006-06-19 11:51:47
12.   Humma Kavula
Now that I think about it, somebody should cut together a "tribute" to Tracy that runs on the Diamondvision screen before the Pirates games this week.

It can be to the tune of "The Way We Were" and feature such greatest hits as Drew's bunt and Jason Phillips playing first...

2006-06-19 11:53:35
13.   Bob Timmermann
I believe Steve is editing the montage right now.
2006-06-19 12:01:18
14.   Marty
So, what is our record for this month. With the Oakland sweep are we officially "swooning"?
2006-06-19 12:06:25
15.   Humma Kavula
We're 6-10 for the month, against PHI, NY, COL, SD, and OAK. Call it as you see it.
2006-06-19 12:06:49
16.   JoeyP

The official swoon will come in July, right after the All-Star Break. 7 games vs Cards, 4 games at Arizona. The stretch leading up to the trading dealine is dangerous. It could put the team 3-5 games out of 1st (maybe more) and then you gotta worry about a panic prospects trade bc of it.

2006-06-19 12:09:16
17.   Bob Timmermann
3-5 games behind whom?

Are there some other red hot teams in the NL West?

The division is very streaky and every team has gone through hot and cold spells.

2006-06-19 12:10:26
18.   ToyCannon
Did I miss the link on the article you mentioned?

Courtesy Rotowire:
James Loney (1B) LA - AAA 6/19/2006
In his last 10 games, Loney has hit .425 with two homers, seven RBI and seven runs scored. Loney is part of a stable of young stars the Dodgers currently have stashed away. With the re-emergence of Nomar Garciaparra, they don't need him now and can let him mature and get a ton of at-bats at Triple-A Las Vegas.

2006-06-19 12:14:37
19.   Inside Baseball
10 I agree completely. I don't care if Kent thinks he was "a dead duck," off-line throws happen. That really bothered me. Now I didn't catch that he yelled at Ethier, what article are you referring to Vishal? If that's true, it's even more troubling.
2006-06-19 12:15:07
20.   Vishal
rob linked to it at 6-4-2. here it is:

2006-06-19 12:17:55
21.   JoeyP
17. Dbax or Padres. Neither team has to play the Cards 7 times in the next 6 weeks like the Dodgers do.
2006-06-19 12:20:40
22.   Inside Baseball
20 - Thanks Vishal. That's weird. In the LA Times Dodgers' Report, Ethier said he didn't even remember the play. I doubt he'd forget if Kent really did "jaw" at him. Or maybe he's trying to minimize what happened.
2006-06-19 12:24:51
23.   dzzrtRatt
From the Pittsburgh story, a wonderful Jim Tracy quote worthy of Lewis Carroll, or maybe Stephen Hawking.

"I think, if Oliver picks it up, he has a chance. But, once again, I think that there's a strong possibility that the bunt doesn't have a chance to occur."

Only Tracy could make you miss the "you can't give a team four outs" cliche.

2006-06-19 12:29:40
24.   dzzrtRatt
Today is one of the rare times during the season when I'm glad the Dodgers have a day off. I'm sick of them. This weekend was grueling. It'll be better for our relationship if maybe I stopped thinking about the Dodgers for a week or so. Saturday night had me questioning whether I should find something else to do with my time.
2006-06-19 12:33:56
25.   Humma Kavula
24 I see what you mean, but things got a lot better for me when I reconciled myself to these two goals for the season:

a) 85 wins
b) lots and lots of at-bats for the kids

For me, anything else we get this year is gravy.

2006-06-19 12:38:19
26.   overkill94
The Pirates proved why they are the Pirates in the 9th today: bases loaded, nobody out, facing the immortal Greg Aquino, so what do they do? Three straight strikeouts. I wonder what kind of questions Jimbo will be asking himself after this one.
2006-06-19 12:41:55
27.   Humma Kavula
26 My guess is that Tracy blames Jason Bay for taking the intentional walk. "Jason's one of our best hitters," he'll say. "He needs to put us in a situation to win the game."
2006-06-19 12:44:55
28.   808Bears
10, 19
While I agree about hustle and effort and don't condone the lack of either, I think this is a case of two frustrations on the part of Kent. He had virtually no chance of retouching second and getting back to first safely, and he got doubled up when he should have had second stolen easily. It's tough for Ethier as a lefty to see Kent take off, but if he didn't recognize what was going on and take/swing through, then the bench or someone needed to let him know to not hit the ball. Far be it for me to defend Kent, but I think it was frustration acting and speaking in this situation. If anything, it's a situational reminder. It's nothing to make too big a deal over.
2006-06-19 12:47:43
29.   Sam DC
Bob -- I was thinking of your dad yesterday when, while visiting a sort of dilapidated petting zoo, my son and I had this conversation:

Son DC: "That bull is very big."

Sam DC: "That's a cow. It has an udder, that means it's a girl. Cows are girls; Bulls are boys."

Son DC: "Is a steer a girl or a boy?"

Sam DC: [thinking, uh oh]: "A steer is a boy too."

Son DC: "Is it the same thing as a bull?"

Sam DC: [thinking, really uh oh]: "No."

At this point, I admitted not being sure [hate that] and said I thought a steer was a bull that couldn't be a daddy anymore. Then we saw the peacocks and I was saved.

2006-06-19 12:50:04
30.   Bob Timmermann
Again, I inspire more Dodger Thoughts commenters to use exact terms when describing ungulates and ruminants.
2006-06-19 13:02:22
31.   the OZ
Meaningless stat:

Matt Kemp's current 17-AB Homerless streak is the longest of his young career.

2006-06-19 13:03:19
32.   dzzrtRatt
The Mariners are next, right? I might have missed discussion of this column when it ran a couple weeks ago, but it seems pertinent now:

The headline darkly suggests Beltre was a steroid user in 2004, but the story more than contradicts the notion, and offers this explanation for his problems:

"He's just tight, trying to break out of this, and like a few of our guys, Adrian's getting caught in-between in a lot of at-bats," he (Hargrove) said. "Sometimes he takes a huge rip, then he'll back off and feel for the pitch. The net result is that balls don't go as far."

Hargrove said the proof Beltre is strong as ever is seen every day in batting practice. "He launches, hits 'em as far as ever. Because he's relaxed and loose. He's got to get to that point in games and you'll see a big difference."

In getting loose, relaxing, Beltre is virtually battling his own nature. He simply feels everything too much, last year the pressure of coming in as a savior, this year the pressure of simply not doing that last year or to this point now.

"I am too sensitive, and I know that's not good," Beltre said. "I think too much about what I'm going through. I feel the pressure."

I hope fans treat him kindly. While I know the genius of Tracyball was what got the Dodgers into the playoffs in 2004, I do think Beltre gave us a season to remember. I have a feeling that, sooner or later, the Mariners will be glad they have him.

2006-06-19 13:09:18
33.   Nagman
Regarding the June Swoon, the Dodgers have also not won consecutive games during this month.
2006-06-19 13:10:07
34.   JoeyP
I think Beltre's contract is already a sunk cost for the Mariners.

Is it really a stretch to believe 2004 was a steroid induced career season for Beltre? 20,20,20,20,20,48,20,20,20......

One of these numbers is off.

2006-06-19 13:12:38
35.   Uncle Miltie
Once again, Jeff Kent provides the Veteran Leadership. Obviously Ethier shouldn't have been swinging with Kent stealing. Kent is closing in on another milestone (100 steals), and Ethier just took one away from Kent, just like Bradley taking a precious RBI from him by not hustling. Why should Kent have to run back to 1st when he's the proven run producer and elder statesman (in the starting lineup) on the team? Kent had a hurt wrist, so I'll give him a mulligan.
2006-06-19 13:16:30
36.   JoeyP
Who comes off the 25-active when Izturis is activated tomorrow?

I got a bad feeling its going to be Aybar. When Aybar, Navarro are toiling in AAA, and Lucille, Izzy, Alomar are on the big club, the end will just be beginning.

2006-06-19 13:21:57
37.   dzzrtRatt
34 I think Beltre's contract is already a sunk cost for the Mariners.

Well, yeah, by definition, since they've committed to it. But you can still see return on sunk costs.

But maybe you're on to something. Maybe Mariner ownership should sit down with Beltre and say, "Dude, we know we blew it. We're sending you these ginormous checks every two weeks, and you're never going to earn it. So enjoy it, man! Have fun. No hard feelings. Anything you hit for us from here on in -- total gravy. Pretend you're playing on a sandlot. C'mon dude, lighten up, you won the lottery!" Maybe that would relax him.

2006-06-19 13:28:07
38.   JoeyP
I dont think its that Beltre is pressing.
I just dont think Beltre's that good without steroids or whatever he took.

If you ignore 2004, he's had pretty much a normal Beltre-like year every year. Even this year, he has like 6HRs and a low OBP. We'll, thats what Beltre has been like most of his career. 20HR power, and low OBP. Solid defense. He's basically Joe Crede. But they are paying him as if he's Scott Rolen based on 1 season.

2006-06-19 14:04:07
39.   JJoeScott
From what I've read, it looks like Aybar will continue to be the full-time solution at 3B.

Just looking at the roster, they're going to have to either go with 11 pitchers (send Seo down) or squeeze back to 4 outfielders (DFA Cruz Jr.).

2006-06-19 14:17:38
40.   overkill94
39 I would have to think Kuo is the odd man out since he still has options and hasn't proved himself to be over his control problems. Aybar seems to be a lock to stay only because of the lack of true third base options (Izzy already said he doesn't want to play there).

As for Beltre and the steroids, should we really be looking at only muscle tone and raw power when being accusatory? Doesn't the advantage of better eyesight and concentration seem to be the real kicker? Kinda makes you rethink all your previous notions of who could be a true juicer.

2006-06-19 14:30:12
41.   Sam DC
Modest chaps over at Bronx Banter: "I love the fact that, in Bruce Almighty, God wears a Yankee's hat."
2006-06-19 14:46:23
42.   Sam DC
A very short and to the point disembowelment of some Jim Bowden crowing at Oleanders and Morning Glories, the Nationals blog at Jon's old haunt (
2006-06-19 15:21:45
43.   Blu2
24 Me too.

39 They should but they won't; they'll send Ethier down befor that.

I hope Ethier yelled back at him. Tell Kent when he's hitting three something with a bunch of homers and RBIs, he can play the jerk; right now he's no better than anyone else (except Seo, Osorio, Perez, etc)...

2006-06-19 15:38:26
44.   Disabled List
I agree with 24. We need to take a break, figure out our needs. I'm sure if things were meant to be, we'll come back to each other. I just need some space right now.
2006-06-19 15:41:05
45.   Greg Brock
24 It's not you, Dodgers, it's me.
2006-06-19 15:42:44
46.   StolenMonkey86
Did you see Beltre in the World Baseball Classic? He was one of the Dominican's hottest hitters. For 2004, he credited Tim Wallach, who might have done something, but I think it was Scott Boras. He had to get his value up, and the best way to do that was be a hot young power hitter on the market. He actually took a few pitches that year too. This is why I think Baez needs Boras.

Is the WBC example reliable? Well, Jae Seo and Chan Ho Park were very good pitchers in the WBC, although A-Rod was consistent and did not come through at all for the US.

2006-06-19 15:43:36
47.   StolenMonkey86
My point of course being that if he cares enough, he can actually be a good player.
2006-06-19 15:51:51
48.   ToyCannon
With a day off here are some update RC/G numbers from THT

Ranking is based on 100 PA
1st - Nomar/10.2/Ranks 2nd only behind Pujols

2nd - Kent/7.1/Ranks 3rd - shockingly leads Utely

SS - Furcal/5.3/Ranks 8th -last year was 2nd to Felipe Lopez

3b - Aybar/6.4/Ranks 10th and has dropped
more then anyone since I last ran these numbers.

C - Martin/6.6/Ranks 4th-interetingly McCann is 8.0 and Estrada is 7.0

RF - JD Drew/6.7/Ranks 3rd but way behind the leaders of Abreu/9.9 Alou/8.9 Giles/7.7

CF - Lofton/6.8/Ranks 2nd, trails only Beltran and continues to lead such great players as A Jones, Edmunds, and Griffey

LF - Ethier/6.1/Ranks 12th
Cruz/4.8/Ranks 17th

Kemp who only has 71 PA has a 12.6 and of course would be ranked 1st in either LF or CF but time will surely bring that score down.

2006-06-19 15:55:11
49.   JoeyP
I dont think the WBC was a large enough tourney to be reliable. Didnt each team only play 4-5 games? Thats too small of sample size I think.
2006-06-19 16:01:18
50.   Xeifrank
49. For the MSM and Tracy that's a large sample size. We here at DT know better though. Atleast 6-7 games! :) vr, Xei
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-06-19 16:04:09
51.   JoeyP
48. Its not that shocking. HardballTimes isnt using the tradition RC stat. Its apparently encorporating "Hitting with RISP", and who knows how much weight is given to SB's. I'm just wondering if they are weighing SB's, are they also weighing CS'ings and GIDPs? What is their exact formula, and how much does it differ from other RC formulas?

*Runs Created. Invented by Bill James, RC is a very good measure of the number of runs a batter truly contributed to his team's offense. The basic formula for RC is OBP*TB, but it has evolved into over fourteen different versions. We use the most complicated version, which includes the impact of hitting well with runners in scoring position, and is adjusted for ballpark impact. RC/G refers to Runs Created Per Game, which Runs Created divided by the number of outs made by the batter, times 27.*

How can hitting well with RISP be factored in? Is this an Angels clause?

2006-06-19 16:04:28
52.   Xeifrank
Wasn't online for the long weekend much but wanted to make sure that I vented a few things. 1) The US soccer team got jobbed by the ref in the Italy game. 2) The Mavs got jobbed by the ref in the Heat game. But I did get a kick out of Mark Cuban running out onto the court to wave his arms at the refs after losing game 5. 3) Father's day was great, my 2 yr old is learning how to string words together now. We always tell her to chew her food as she likes to stick large quantities of food in her mouth at the same time. On Father's day she decided to give me her last bite of her fishsticks. After placing it in my mouth she said "Daddy chew!". Made my day.
vr, Xei
2006-06-19 16:06:39
53.   Xeifrank
51. They incorporate hitting with RISP? Yuck. I wonder how well their formula correlates to actual runs scored, as compared to other formulas and OPS and (2OBP+SLG) etc... Formulas are nice, but let's see some correlation numbers.
vr, Xei
2006-06-19 16:09:10
54.   JoeyP
Hardball Times has some interesting stats to say the least.

They have something known as "Clutch" factor:

"Clutch" is the name we've given to the portion of Bill James's Runs Created formula that includes the impact of a batter's batting average with runners in scoring position and the number of home runs with runners on. The specific formula is Hits with RISP minus overall BA times at bats with RISP, plus HR with runners on minus (all HR/AB) times at bats with runners on. This stat is not a definitive description of "clutch hitting," just one way of looking at it.

Guess who is most clutch for the LA Dodgers?

Yep, of course its Rafael Furcal!
I'm not making this up.

2006-06-19 16:22:00
55.   Xeifrank
Mark Cuban has an interesting post up at his blog showing off his fathering skills.
vr, Xei
2006-06-19 16:42:03
56.   ToyCannon
True, it would be nice to get their exact forumla and compare it to others but it is the only site I know that has the updated RC/G during the season.

I will take a look using the Bill James handbook from the last several years to see how much difference there is between his numbers and THT. It does seem very strange that they would use RISP in their formula but I doubt they put much weight behind it and I'll be very surprised if there is much of a difference between the rc/g the BJ version comes up with and the HTH.

2006-06-19 16:59:22
57.   Linkmeister
Is anyone else watching the Yankees-Phillies game? The Yankees' Bubba Crosby's (#19) looks (to my eye) remarkably like Steve Sax, at least facially. Anybody else notice that?
2006-06-19 17:00:25
58.   Linkmeister
Grr. Crosby. Edit is your friend, or, when removing the noun, remove the possessive.
2006-06-19 17:04:33
59.   JoeyP

ESPN has RC27.
They even have a section of stats classified "sabermetric".

Lofton's RC27 is 5.63 according to them. He ranks 9th amongst CF'ers with enough at bats. He is ahead of Hunter, Griffey, and Edmonds. But he's behind Sizemore, Granderson, Damon, Beltran, Mathews JR, Wells,Byrnes, Jones, and Patterson.

2006-06-19 17:14:22
60.   JoeyP

Thats the Dodgers sabermetric stats page on ESPN if anyone is interested.

Repko was really playing well at the time he got hurt. He led the Dodgers in P/PA. 3rd in RC/27 (behind Kemp/Nomar).

Just to point out some of the descrepancies amongst differing RC27 formulas. In the ESPN model, Navarro actually has a higher RC27 than Kenny Lofton. Furcal has the lowest RC27 of any regular or bench player.

2006-06-19 17:50:59
61.   Uncle Miltie
55- LOL. I love Mark Cuban.
2006-06-19 18:05:12
62.   natepurcell
looks like Blake Johnson is breaking out, pretty awesome start today:

7IP 4H 1ER 0bb 10k

his era is now 3.84

2006-06-19 18:19:03
63.   ToyCannon
Good stuff and thanks for the intelligent response to my post. I'm more then happy to look at a better set of numbers.

Lofton is doing quite well even with those ESPN numbers. I only looked at NL players when doing my ranking so according to your data A Jones would be the only one to surpass him making him 4th in the NL. That is still nice, but I expect by Sept that both Byrnes and Lofton will be around 8-10.

Thanks for the ESPN info, I forget sometimes about how good their stat pages have become. I always use them for splits but I've never visited the sabermetric stat page.

2006-06-19 18:32:47
64.   natepurcell
how glorious! I turn on espn to the yanks phillies game and the first person to come up to bat is Smooth Sal Fasano. I'm probably the luckiest person alive.
2006-06-19 18:53:42
65.   Gen3Blue
Here in Berkshire county Ma. I am free to wtch east coast ball and really am a natural Red Sox fan. But with the Nats. leading 4-3, I almost feel more loyalty to our Sam D. C. I naturally dislike the Yanks. being an old D's fan and Phillie is beating them 3-2. My most mixed feeling our for the Mets, meant to be the D's and G's succesors in th east, but with the past conflicts I seem to feel glad with the Reds ahead.( I think they've won. A most strange mix of emotions)
Anywho, all three games will be done soon, and one can't help who one finds oneself rooting for.
2006-06-19 18:57:54
66.   natepurcell

blake dewitt might be back folks. Since I told you about how a VB coach was telling to hit the ball on the ground more, he took two games off to rework his swing to where it once was. It might be back guys.

in his 3 games since he took the ganes off, hes hit 3 homeruns in 9 ABs with 3bbs and no ks. so far so good.

2006-06-19 19:00:19
67.   Greg Brock
So, what does everybody think about Jeff "The Shark" Samardzija signing with the Cubs? All "Well, there goes his arm" and "Wait 'till Dusty kills his rotator cuff" jokes aside, the kid has a great arm, and has the chance to be a star in two sports. He says he plans to play professionally in both. Thoughts? Opinions? Anti-Domer insults? Let's keep the Serbia jokes to a minimum.
2006-06-19 19:01:47
68.   natepurcell

He's not going to see most of that money because hes going to be drafted in the first round of the nfl draft and drop baseball.

2006-06-19 19:16:08
69.   Linkmeister
"a VB coach was telling to hit the ball on the ground more"

What's a volleyball coach doing telling somebody how to hit a baseball?

Oh, Vero Beach!

Carry on, nothing to see here.

2006-06-19 19:19:00
70.   Sam DC
Manny just a home run over the Green Monster. 6-3 Sox over Nats.
2006-06-19 19:19:44
71.   Gen3Blue
On this day off, I did a little thinking and found that with this very relaxed early season schedule ( I think we have had the last two mondays off and the prior thursday) a 4 man rotation would have relatively rare instances of only three days off. While my philosophy doesn't put any of the blame for our crazy salary system on the players*, the five man rotation provides 30 more multi million multi year jobs.
2006-06-19 19:21:24
72.   Gen3Blue
The Yanks lose!
I fear Bostons ahead but I think the Mets lose.
2006-06-19 19:26:53
73.   Gen3Blue
Sorry Sam. But damn good play.
2006-06-19 19:37:47
74.   Linkmeister
I'm stealing Bob's thunder, but the Yankees released Erickson, or so ESPN's ticker sez.
2006-06-19 19:37:49
75.   Greg Brock
68 He's already said he's going to play both, so his bonus may be lowered, and his base contract may be modified, but he's no quitting baseball. Plus, the shelf life for baseball players is quite higher than for football players. I don't think it's as cut and dry as you do.
2006-06-19 19:38:08
76.   das411
2-1 WHALERCANES 8 mins left in the 3rd!!!

Pix from the first 7 innings of the PHils/Yanks game will be posted later tonight, once they all upload and somebody wins the Stanley Cup!!

2006-06-19 19:51:36
77.   Greg Brock
Nice to see a hockey hotbed like Carolina win the Cup, instead of some Johnny-come-lately city like Edmonton.
2006-06-19 19:58:56
78.   Greg Brock
Congrats, Whalers...Now you can all shave your "Playoff" beards. Hockey players are gross.
2006-06-19 20:02:28
79.   das411
2006-06-19 20:03:19
80.   das411
Dude, the hockey playoffs started in April! Try going two months without shaving sometime and if you don't look gross.
2006-06-19 20:07:06
81.   Greg Brock
das, I've know enough hockey players in my life, including a few that play in the NHL, to tell you that the grossness of the average hockey player goes far beyond the average "Playbeard". But hey, this isn't about hockey player nastiness...Enjoy the victory.
2006-06-19 20:15:07
82.   das411
Oh sure Greg, I just think it's just great that the hockey equivalent of the 2001 Diamondbacks (all the washed up veterans hanging on for the one last shot at a championship) finally win one.

Let me guess, off-night for the Dodgers?

2006-06-19 20:17:22
83.   Uncle Miltie
I didn't and couldn't watch the NHL playoffs because the games were on OLN. A lot of cable companies don't offer this channel. You would think that the NHL would be smart enough to know this. ESPN was offering the same money, yet the NHL screwed up again. I don't really care since the Kings weren't in it.

So you like Sal Fasano now, Nate? Is it the porn stache or the trashy trailer park look? I guess that would make you a Jeff Kent fan too...

I'm pretty happy because I just got a new longboard today. It's smoother than Sal Fasano.

2006-06-19 20:21:44
84.   natepurcell

Kent cant touch Fasano when it comes to dirtiest facial hair on a player.

Fasano intrigues me because he doesnt look like a baseball player. He's the greasiest italian I've ever seen in my life. That makes him awesome in my book.

2006-06-19 20:22:40
85.   Greg Brock
82 Not sure how to take the "Oh sure Greg" line. It could be "Oh, sure you do Greg, you lying mammal," or it could be "Oh, no problem Greg, I see your point and respect your opinion." I'm betting it's the former. I will adjust my indignation in accordance with your forthcoming response.

I didn't really dislike the WhaleCanes until you compared them to the DBax...Which player will be the camera hogging Curt Schilling hockey equivalent?

2006-06-19 20:29:02
86.   regfairfield
Imagine the advertising campaign the Dodgers could have ran if they kept Valentin and signed Sal Fasano.
2006-06-19 20:45:51
87.   natepurcell
cain is no hitting the angels through 6.
2006-06-19 20:47:39
88.   thinkingblue

Is Aybar really that much better than Izturis?

2006-06-19 20:47:45
89.   Uncle Miltie
Has anyone ever pitched a no hitter and lost the game?
2006-06-19 20:49:01
90.   thinkingblue

Why the ----- would you tell DeWitt to hit the ball on the ground more?

2006-06-19 20:50:40
91.   thinkingblue


2006-06-19 20:53:54
92.   ToyCannon
I think Jim Maloney did once then you have this game which in my book was the greatest pitched game in history and he lost.
2006-06-19 20:54:32
93.   regfairfield
88 Aybar walks and seems to have trouble catching the ball. They don't seem like comprable players.
2006-06-19 20:55:05
94.   ToyCannon
Uncle Miltie did you graduate this year?
2006-06-19 20:56:09
95.   ToyCannon
He doesn't seem to walk much lately or is that just my imagination?
2006-06-19 20:57:24
96.   Greg Brock
89 Andy Hawkins threw a no-hitter for the Yanks, and lost 4-0. Don't ask.
2006-06-19 20:58:50
97.   thinkingblue

Yes, but neither have much power (maybe Aybar has a little more), and both sometimes hit for average. Maybe Aybar is a little more disciplined, but I don't see why it would be so bad to demote Aybar, he's doing OK, but he's not having Weaver-like success.

2006-06-19 20:58:51
98.   natepurcell
Cain is in a zone. wow.
2006-06-19 20:59:18
99.   regfairfield
95 True, but we're comparing him to Izturis here.
2006-06-19 20:59:31
100.   Uncle Miltie
Last week, I pointed out that it might be a good thing that Dave Stewart is Billingsley and Kemp's agent. When Eric Chavez (who is represented by Stewart) stayed with the A's for relatively less money $66 million over 6 years, I knew that Stewart wasn't another Boras who forces his clients to test free agency because it helps his other clients on the market. In comparison, Scott Rolen's contract with the Cardinals is for 8 years $90 million.

Ned seems to like Stewart. I don't think I've ever seen heard a GM talk about an agent like that. We'll see how he feels about him when he starts negotiating with him, though.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-06-19 20:59:32
101.   thinkingblue
Didn't Hendly do it, and lose against Koufax, or did he give up a hit near the end?
2006-06-19 21:04:46
102.   das411
85 - Oh sure [hockey players are gross, no way in the world am I gonna disagree there...]

Their Schilling is definitely Mark Recchi, Stillman = Counsell, and Whitney + Wesley + Hedican = Finley + Grace + Gonzalez? Brind'amour?

And for Nate, more Fasano than any one person should be able to survive:

2006-06-19 21:05:15
103.   herman
I haven't been impressed with dewitt's numbers. You hit the ball where it is pitched. That "hit the ball on the ground excuse" is some lame justification for dewitt's poor performance. His numbers would look good if he was a late round pick, but he with a first rounder. I am not saying that he won't turn out to be a great player, but his numbers don't indicate anything special.
2006-06-19 21:07:15
104.   natepurcell

nice observation.

2006-06-19 21:07:16
105.   JoeyP
The excitement for a no hitter just dies when there isnt the shut out to go along with it. Its just weird no-hitting a team, but still giving up a run.
2006-06-19 21:07:50
106.   herman
103 was for nate since it seems that he is the resident prospect expert. What are your thoughts?
2006-06-19 21:08:59
107.   natepurcell

I cant believe you took that many Sal pics! LOLLOL. amazing.

2006-06-19 21:10:00
108.   JoeyP
Nate is high on any high schooler that his drafted in the 1st round.
2006-06-19 21:12:19
109.   natepurcell
What are your thoughts?

-dewitt is still young
-dewitt hit 0.309/0.358/0.478 in his last 320ABs last season.
-I truly believe that vero coach messed him up the first half of this season. If he doesn't do significantly better in the second half, you can call me out on it.

2006-06-19 21:12:50
110.   JoeyP
Matt Cain has thrown 121 pitches, and has a no-no through 7.2.
However, its tainted bc the Angels have scored a run.

The Giants are really risking injury by leaving him in like this.

2006-06-19 21:13:03
111.   natepurcell
Nate is high on any high schooler that his drafted in the 1st round.

thats not really true but, sure if you want.

2006-06-19 21:14:57
112.   natepurcell
Figgins breaks it up, line drive to CF. Still a good game by Cain.
2006-06-19 21:15:26
113.   JoeyP
Haha now they can take him out.
Alou left him in to throw 128 pitches.
2006-06-19 21:17:01
114.   Vishal
he hit 99 on the gun after throwing over 120 pitches. that's pretty impressive.
2006-06-19 21:17:42
115.   Suffering Bruin
I got this from the link at 6-4-2. Our boy Jim Tracy. Granted this was talked about upthread but this quote really takes the cake for me:

"Every time in the latter part of the season, you hear announcers say, `They play great defense, they have good pitching and timely hitting and they play heads-up baseball,' " Tracy said, referring to postseason teams. "Well, what a concept. And it wins, and every single year it wins. And over the course of the next century, when we're all gone, it will win.

"And it's going to be preached and pounded here every single game, and anything less than an understanding of that is unacceptable."

It's Tracy in a nutshell: borderline sarcastic, avoiding any responsibility for a team's poor play ("I can't catch the ball for them!"), and exhibiting a fundamental misunderstanding of what it takes to run a ballclub successfully.

I said he would cost the Pirates five games. I might've been too conservative.

2006-06-19 21:18:11
116.   thinkblue88
114. its the SF gun, its always little faster for some reason.
2006-06-19 21:20:55
117.   Vishal
[116] even 96 or 97 would still be impressive.
2006-06-19 21:22:48
118.   Uncle Miltie
99 on the Frisco gun is probably 96. For Giants fans sake, I was hoping that Cain wouldn't pitch a no hitter because with the way he was pitching it might have taken him 150+. That can't be good for a 21 year old's arm.
2006-06-19 21:25:31
119.   Steve
Somehow, that strategy will even survive Mike Edwards and Jason Phillips.
2006-06-19 21:25:43
120.   Uncle Miltie
Benitez is coming in. The Angels have a very good chance of coming back. Vlad and Napoli might do something. Anderson is pretty bad.
2006-06-19 21:25:50
121.   JoeyP
They play great defense, they have good pitching and timely hitting and they play heads-up baseball

Timely hitting is just an excuse to play a poor hitter, but hope he gets a few timely hits.

Heads-up baseball.. I'm not sure what this is. Pretty much everyone knows how to play baseball by the time they've made it to the major leagues. There's very little thinking or "heads-up* involved. Its reactionary at that point. See ball. Hit ball. See Ball. Field ball.

Now everyone knows how Alex Cora garnered 400+ at bats playing for Tracy.

I'm so glad he's gone.

2006-06-19 21:28:01
122.   Bluebleeder87
did you catch Mickey Hatcher new hair?
2006-06-19 21:28:23
123.   herman
What do you think it would take to get Capuno from MIL? I think we should also put out a flyer on Dessens. Getting those two could really strengthen our pitching.
2006-06-19 21:30:44
124.   das411
107 - Neither could the section full of Yankee fans I kept strobe light-ing with my flash :)

Kind of disappointed nobody is complaining about me on Bronx Banter though...

118 - [Brian Sabean] can't be good for a 21 year old's arm.

2006-06-19 21:31:08
125.   dsfan
I tend to think Aybar would be better off going to Triple A and I say that as someone who believes he can be a regular 3B. He's had a pretty good run for a rookie. But the league's finally started attacking him, and some of his weaknesses have been exposed. The walks are down, putting a lot of pressure on him to find holes.

Right-handed, he's uncomfortable, just serving the ball out there, real defensive.

If he goes back to Triple-A, it'll be interesting to see if he can apply what he's learned. He probably needs to get a little stronger, shorten his swing a tad.

I know statistical people hate this kind of comment, but it'll come down to how much he wants it if he's going to become a solid major leaguer. He's got some things to work with. The experience he's gotten can be invaluable. But in a sense, he's only begun.

2006-06-19 21:31:46
126.   Bluebleeder87
what a joke, that ump !!!
2006-06-19 21:32:12
127.   Uncle Miltie
This umpire is horrible. That last pitch was a foot off the plate!
2006-06-19 21:32:38
128.   dzzrtRatt
One of these years, a fan of whatever team Benitez plays for is going to kidnap him and hold him in an undisclosed location until the season's over.
2006-06-19 21:33:22
129.   herman
We could have a rotation of:

That looks solid to me. I wouldn't mind giving up Guzman and etc. for Caps because I feel he would be a stud for years to come.

2006-06-19 21:33:32
130.   JoeyP
John Smoltz or bust.

Either trade for Smoltz, or stand pat.
There's no in between.

2006-06-19 21:35:37
131.   natepurcell

sending down every rookie who struggles a bit isnt my ideal way of developing young players. He has shown he can hit at this level and we should give him a chance to show he can also adjust at this level. I dont really have dellusions that Aybar is going to be a big masher as a hitter, or even hit 300 consistently every year. He can be a solid player and a solid player is perfectly fine.

2006-06-19 21:35:41
132.   herman
Smoltz is old. Caps is young and getting better.
2006-06-19 21:36:17
133.   natepurcell

I don't think the Brewers are the type of team to trade very good, young and very affordable starting pitching.

2006-06-19 21:37:48
134.   JoeyP
125. Aybar should be playing on the Dodgers simply because he's one of the best 25 players in the organization. Having Alomar, Lucille, and Izturis spend time on the LA Dodgers, while Navarro, Aybar spend time in AAA serves no purpose for anyone.

If Aybar gets sent down, it'll signal that the organization cares less about winning and more about veteran leadership or what ever else intangible you want to throw out there. Players should be evaluated based on their talent/production. I dont think Aybar has warranted being sent down for the aforementioned players that could possibly take his place on the roster.

2006-06-19 21:38:03
135.   herman
What about Dessens?
2006-06-19 21:39:24
136.   Steve
[Brian Sabean] can't be good for [anything at all]
2006-06-19 21:40:29
137.   herman
I know MIL wants to trade Lee, so they would need a future LF. Hence, we could trade them Guzman and etc. for Caps. They could turn around and trade Lee for younger more afforable pitching since Capuno is due for an arb. hearing soon.
2006-06-19 21:40:42
138.   Greg Brock
131 I'm of the opinion that Aybar is destined to be a .285-295/15/75 guy. Not to shabby for a switch hitting witch, but certainly no great shakes. Aybar and Guzman are two overvalued prospects, and I would love to see them packaged with Navarro for a front-line pitcher...Problem? No front line pitchers available. So we keep Aybar and Guzman while their value continues to decrease. It's unfortunate, but I think that's what happens.
2006-06-19 21:41:22
139.   natepurcell

i wouldnt mind dessens, but he is clearly better as a middle reliever then as a starter. hes signed through 2007 and his salary is reasonable, (1.7mil in 2007).

2006-06-19 21:43:36
140.   dzzrtRatt
"A switch hitting witch?" Are you suggesting Aybar is some kind of Wiccan?
2006-06-19 21:44:15
141.   natepurcell
a witch!!!! burn the witches!
2006-06-19 21:44:25
142.   JoeyP
I dont think Capuano is available.
Secondly, if you're going to trade prospects, it has to be for someone that will help you win now.

I dont have any hope that Colletti could turn some spare parts (Navarro, Cruz, Lofton, Mueller, Ethier,Izturis Repko) into a legit top of the rotation ace. Therefore, he's going to have to deal prospects for something.

If you're dealing prospects, it better be for something that will seriously make the team a contender. Somltz would do that. I dont think Capuano is available, although I'd definitely trade spare parts for him.

2006-06-19 21:45:25
143.   Greg Brock
138 Just a little Bull Durham reference. Sorry, my friends and I always call switch hitters "witches" for short...Thought most people would get that. Guess not.
2006-06-19 21:47:02
144.   Greg Brock
Example: "I can't believe how much power Big Tex has for a right handed witch." Or "Chipper's the best witch of our generation."
2006-06-19 21:49:25
145.   dzzrtRatt
143 Thought most people would get that. Guess not.

Probably because the word "witch" has this, y'know, other meaning.

2006-06-19 21:49:32
146.   herman
What pitcher is available that is worth trading for? (minus Zito)
2006-06-19 21:49:42
147.   natepurcell
"Chipper's the best witch of our generation."

...and we should trade laroche for him.

2006-06-19 21:51:09
148.   dzzrtRatt
OT, but I just read Jon's portrait of Rainn Wilson of "The Office." Rainn's character Dwight has a blog, and Jon quotes Wilson explaining why:

"It was my idea in the very beginning that Dwight should have a blog," Wilson says. "I think that a blog is a perfect way for Dwight to express himself. Most people's blogs are like boring, pontificating rants, and that is right up Dwight's alley."

2006-06-19 21:52:50
149.   JoeyP
Smoltz is old. There's no question if he was traded for, that the team would be in "win now" mode.

But he is having about the best year of any front line starter available (which there arent many).

3.78 ERA
1.18 WHIP
7.74 K/9
12 HRs- this is his primary weak spot.

I just think he's the only guy worth trading any of our young players for. I dont think Navarro for Dessens, or Aybar for Weaver, or Aybar/Navarro for Livan Hernandez makes any sense.

If were trading youngsters, it better be to at the very least substantially improve the team in the short term.

2006-06-19 21:53:33
150.   herman
laroche will be 9o% as good as Wright.

Laroche will consistly put up numbers such as:

.285 23-30hrs 80-100RBI .370OBP .490SLG

And I think I am lowballing him.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-06-19 21:53:40
151.   Steve
2006-06-19 21:53:59
152.   Greg Brock
145 You're good people Ratt, but you either get it, or you don't. I'll guess "witch" column to mark you down for. Witch...get it? oh #@%&$ it.
2006-06-19 21:55:16
153.   Greg Brock
151 Because they're made of wood.
2006-06-19 21:56:34
154.   herman
"win now" means "lose later". If we trade young prospects I want 27 year old studs in return, not 40 year old Social S collectors.
2006-06-19 21:56:36
155.   Greg Brock
150 LaRoche will be 90% as good as Wright...Um, no. But he will be very good.
2006-06-19 21:56:39
156.   JoeyP
I'd also add I wouldnt trade Aybar/Navarro for Greg Maddux either. He's not very good either.

If the team wants to win, and is willing to mortgage and potentially harm the future, it better be for someone that will substantially improve the team.

Livan, Maddux, Weaver, Clement, dont do that IMO.
Snell, Capuano would be nice to trade for, but not sure if they are available.
Smoltz is the guy right now, until others become available.

2006-06-19 21:57:11
157.   das411
Oh but something totally awesome like Zumaya to AtL just has to happen so Smoltz can complete the Jack Morris circle!

And it would be pretty sweet to see him start against Maddux (for the LAD or StL) in the playoffs, then the winner would get to face Glavine or Clemens to advance and face either the Unit, Schill, or the Chicago 4 in the WS...

2006-06-19 21:57:11
158.   dzzrtRatt
A low-budget team like Milwaukee isn't going to part with a pitcher like Capuano unless he's such a bad witch he's casting evil spells on the manager.

A good pitcher who can't go FA isn't the profile of trade bait unless a team has real surplus of that category. That's why all this trade talk around Dontrelle Willis makes me laugh. Willis is basically playing for free. Why would the Marlins want to give him up? He's the kind of player they're trying to trade for.

The Angels are the one team that might have a cheap, young pitcher to give. Assuming they find no takers for Jeff Weaver, in the right deal you might get Ervin Santana or Kelvim Escobar. I guess it would have to be a three-way thing.

2006-06-19 21:59:13
159.   herman
Greg- He is the real deal. His numbers don't lie. His swing doesn't lie. His glove doesn't lie. He will be the best hitter of all our prospects including Kemp.
2006-06-19 22:01:03
160.   JoeyP
If we trade young prospects I want 27 year old studs in return

One of these types of swindles:
Bud Smith/Polanco for Rolen.
Hanley Ramirez for Beckett.
Bobby Hill for Aramis Ramirez
Vogelson/Rios for Jason Schmidt.

That would be great. Just not sure if Ned can pull it off, or who he would dupe.

2006-06-19 22:02:11
161.   natepurcell
Andy Laroche's 2006 Ending numbers (because I think he is done for the year with the torn labrum)

242AB 310/423/500 11hr 44bb 34k

kind of a bummer injury :(

2006-06-19 22:03:35
162.   Steve
Does he weigh the same as a duck?
2006-06-19 22:03:45
163.   Greg Brock
159 So you're telling me to bet the farm that LaRoche, he of the torn labrum, is gonna OPS .993 like Wright is (at 23 years old). Sorry Herman, mi hermano, but that is nuts.

You know who else had a really pretty swing...Franklin Stubbs. Pretty swings do not an all-star make.

2006-06-19 22:05:19
164.   Greg Brock
Steve, why are you so wise in the ways of science? Are you Arthur, King of the Britons?
2006-06-19 22:06:23
165.   herman
Greg- OK he will OPS at .850-.900. He is that good.
2006-06-19 22:06:34
166.   natepurcell

He's going ops 893.7 (90% of david wright)

2006-06-19 22:07:49
167.   Greg Brock
166 See what you missed yesterday Nate? Good times, good times.
2006-06-19 22:08:54
168.   herman
Thanks nate.
2006-06-19 22:08:54
169.   dsfan
Nate, others on Aybar:

It's a crucial time for Willy. Not because he declined. His decline was inevitable. But can he make the necessary adjustments? Some of his flaws truly have been exposed.

He has some things to address, or he will continue to decline here and possibly will crater.

I don't think that if Aybar goes down that it's some sort of love affair with veterans or signals a failure to commit to a young player. Just look at the confidence they've been showing in young guys. Sometimes you protect kids when they're weaknesses are exposed and put them in an environment more conducive to development.

I've been following Aybar pretty closely for several years and was touting him here pretty good this winter, when he had a whole lot less sizzle for many people. If he stays, there has to be a compelling reason that he's fairly close to making the necessary adjustments, both at the plate and 3B. It'll be up to Little/Murray/Ned to make that evaluation.

(Please don't construe this as strong endorsement of Ramon Martinez. Although I will say, he's far exceeded my projections).

2006-06-19 22:09:41
170.   Steve
I am Aybar, King of the Britons.
2006-06-19 22:11:11
171.   natepurcell
Not to be mistaken, I LOVE Andy Laroche. But David Wright is absolutely amazing. They do have very similar swings though. And they kinda do look a like.
2006-06-19 22:11:14
172.   Scanman33
After seeing 160, I spent the last 10 minutes trying to find out what happened to Bud Smith. Last thing I could find was that he was with Rochester (Minn.) in 2005. Anyone have any current info?
2006-06-19 22:11:17
173.   Blu2
101 Kenneth Travis Johnson (born June 16, 1933 in West Palm Beach, Florida) is a former right-handed pitcher in Major League Baseball for the Houston Colt .45s who, on April 23, 1964, became the only pitcher to lose a complete game no-hitter in nine innings when he was beaten 1-0 by the Cincinnati Reds.
2006-06-19 22:11:57
174.   Greg Brock
170 MY LIEGE!!!!
2006-06-19 22:12:25
175.   dsfan
I agree with Nate that Laroche is done for the year. This injury will be a severe test. Can't say the Dodgers' medical track record makes me confident. What a shame for LaRoche.
2006-06-19 22:12:26
176.   herman
Aybar consistantly has good at-bats. His approach is mature beyond his years. I think he has some pop and will con't to develop power (sound like looney).
2006-06-19 22:12:49
177.   Uncle Miltie
Hanley Ramirez for Beckett.
The Red Sox also got Mike Lowell who has been excellent. I think it was a pretty good trade for both teams because Beckett hasn't pitched nearly as well as he's capable of doing. Ramirez looks like a future star, so the trade will probably end up favoring Florida, but I wouldn't call it a major heist.

There's no reason to send Aybar down. Why does he need to get stronger? He looks pretty strong to me. The only way he could get much stronger is by juicing. The only young guy I'd send down is Ethier, not as a punishment though. In Vegas he can play everyday and work on his approach at the plate. He's gotten away from what has made him a good hitter in the past. If he doesn't correct it now, it going to stay with him his hole career and he may not be any better than Todd Hollandsworth (who I think was a better and more talented player).

Aybar reminds me of a younger version of Bill Mueller. The difference is that Aybar has better footwork at 2B. The criticism of his defense at 2B, was that he didn't have the range to play there. He's looked fine to me the few times he's played there. I'd like to see him play a little more at 2B, but that's not going to happen with Kent occupying the position. Aybar's ceiling is Jose Vidro. More likely he'll be like Bill Mueller.

2006-06-19 22:13:04
178.   Greg Brock
Bud Smith played at Harbor College with a few of my buddies. After throwing his no-no, he had three terrible arm injuries, and is trying to battle back.
2006-06-19 22:15:29
179.   Scanman33
178- Thanks. Is he with any organization right now?
2006-06-19 22:17:34
180.   dsfan

My point is that Aybar, in fact, is no longer having good at-bats. He's consistently having bad ABs.

That happens to just about everybody. The questions are, what's causing those bad at-bats? Can he fix the problem here, or would Triple-A be more conducive?
Right now, he's helpless against LHP. Against RHP, he can't handle a pretty good fastball in a few spots. The league took awhile to figure this out. As for his footwork at 3B, it should be better.

The Dodgers' development skills will be tested, whatever the decision.

2006-06-19 22:17:57
181.   Greg Brock
179 He's playing Indie ball right now, last I heard. He's still only 26, so you never know. But hey, he threw a no-no, so he's got that.
2006-06-19 22:18:17
182.   Blu2
89 How about Harvey Haddix pitching 12 perfect innings only to lose the game in the 13th? Joe Adcock, the Brave first baseman hit a home run with two runners on base, but ran past the second runner, thereby voiding both their runs so the final score was 1-0!
2006-06-19 22:19:01
183.   herman
No, Aybar is not getting hits, but he is still having good at-bats.
2006-06-19 22:20:27
184.   Greg Brock
183 Ah, the good ole "Good at bat without hits." I think Jason Grabowski had 300 of those.
2006-06-19 22:22:04
185.   dsfan

We'll agree to disagree. He's not driving the ball. He's not walking. Very weak swings against LHP. Feeling for the ball as a LHB.

2006-06-19 22:23:19
186.   herman
184- That was funny, but if Aybar continues to have good at-bats the hits will come. He hits his pitch, not the pitchers pitch. He will bring up his avg. over .300 in the next couple of games.
2006-06-19 22:24:31
187.   herman
He is having trouble from the right side, that why Old maid should play third on those days when a lefty is pitching.
2006-06-19 22:26:05
188.   dsfan

If he faces LHPs, or RHPs who go after him with a pretty FB, Aybar will continue to decline -- unless he makes some pretty significant adjustments. I hope that happens. Call me a skeptic who believes in Aybar long term.

2006-06-19 22:26:55
189.   Uncle Miltie
185- having good swings and good at bats are different things. Aybar is still working the count. Aybar controls the strike zone better than any Dodger hitter other than JD Drew. If he was a veteran player, he'd get more respect from the umpires. Aybar is not driving the ball and isn't making solid contact. It's called a slump. You can't fault the guy when he's having quality at bats.
2006-06-19 22:28:03
190.   dsfan

Little's tried to reduce his exposure against LHP. Not easily done in 17-inning games and when you're lineup's so fragile. If Willy's going to be this bad against LHP, that has to be factored into whether he should be here. I don't know what the numbers are, but he's appeared very defensive and uncomfortable against them, even the likes of Halsely.

2006-06-19 22:29:53
191.   herman
Good point Uncle. I have seen Aybar called out on strikes 10 different times where the pitch wasn't even close to the plate.
2006-06-19 22:35:25
192.   herman
Furcal has been very disappoint. His arm isn't what I thought it was going to be. His field is horrible. Range is OK. His hitting....... just forget I said anything. F**(
2006-06-19 22:35:51
193.   herman
2006-06-19 22:36:03
194.   dsfan

Quality at-bats? Again, no one's backed Aybar here more than I have the last eight months. But the quality of his ABs has been poor, consistently, for some two weeks. He's not driving the ball. He's not drawing walks. What else is there to a quality at-bat?

Sure, umps have gouged him a few times. It happens to a lot of hitters. Sure, he's in a slump and everyone goes through them.

Again, it gets down to the evaluation of what's causing it. What will enable him to have consistent success now that the league has a good book on him?

The days of nibbling against him are over. Teams figured out he can tell a ball from a strike. Now they're forcing him to drive the ball and he's failing to counter.

2006-06-19 22:57:50
195.   Uncle Miltie
194- have you heard of pitches per plate appearance? It's been around for a while, but some GM's are starting to recognize how important it is for their hitters to wear down the opposing team's starter. Very few have an excellent bullpen as a whole, so having a chance to face a team's bullpen for 4 innings, give you a very good opportunity to score. Aybar is one of the top rookies in this stat. He's also one of the top players on our team in terms of pitches seen along with Furcal, Drew and Cruz. Lofton and Ethier have been mediocre in this area, while Nomar and Alomar have been terrible. Nomar is a special case (along with Vlad) where it doesn't matter how many pitches they see because they are able to recognize their pitch and hit it. Nomar and Vlad are great hitters. Mediocre hitters like Garrett Anderson have the same approach, but not the same results. Why do you think Billy Beane traded for Jason Kendall? Don't think it has something do with him being one of the leaders in pitches per plate appearance in his last year with the Pirates? Depodesta signed Jose Valentin for the same reason. Valentin is not a "walker", but he sees a lot of pitches. Obviously, anything is better than an out, but seeing a lot of pitches is the next best thing.
2006-06-19 22:57:56
196.   Vishal
[184] aybar doesn't make any grabowski faces.
2006-06-19 23:03:49
197.   Greg Brock
196 He is also not Polish. Or else he has one hell of a tanning machine.
2006-06-19 23:38:54
198.   natepurcell
Uncle Miltie is going to love this.

Kenny Lofton: The Epitome of Veteran Leadership.

2006-06-19 23:49:29
199.   ToyCannon
Joey is right if were going to play for this year Smoltz is the man to get. He is the realistic play. The Brewers aren't dealing the kid pitchers and their AAA outfielders Corey Hart and Nelson Cruz are solid enough they don't need ours.
Carlos Lee is who they are going to trade. I'm very curious what kind of bounty they will extract for him.
2006-06-19 23:52:44
200.   Greg Brock
198 Thanks a lot, Nate. Now all we need is an article on Odalis Perez's ability to cure the Ebola Virus, and Uncle Miltie's year will be made.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-06-20 00:01:39
201.   Steve
Ebola could never eat all that goo.
2006-06-20 00:17:59
202.   Uncle Miltie
That's great that Lofton is helping the young guys. I never said I didn't want him on the team. It's just that I'd rather have him as a bench player.

I'm not bothered by the most of the article. What bothers me is that Henson throws in Kent and Nomar for the hell of it:
Nomar Garciaparra and Jeff Kent provide a blueprint for any young player through their work

I don't see how that makes you a "leader". The same thing could be said about any good veteran player. If I made this statement, would anyone disagree with it?
Bonds leads by example with his performance on the field

Nomar and Kent (somewhat) are productive players. What's the reason for making up stuff about them being leaders? Do we really need to feed into their egos anymore? It would be like the Giants trying to market Barry Bonds as a nice guy.

2006-06-20 00:25:48
203.   JoeyP
Baseball writers will come up with anything on an off day.

That was major league Fluff by Steven Henson.

2006-06-20 00:29:27
204.   Greg Brock
Miltie, I would like you to cite one bit of evidence that Barry Bonds isn't a nice guy. I mean, the guy cried on ESPN for God's sakes.
2006-06-20 07:07:01
205.   DXMachina
204 - That was only because they'd just told him his series was cancelled.

101 Didn't Hendly do it, and lose against Koufax, or did he give up a hit near the end?

Hendly finished with a one-hitter. Imagine that? Hendly pitches the best game of his career, and it comes on a night when his opponent throws a perfect game.

A lot of the no-hit losses were stricken from the record books back when Fay Vincent decided to change the qualifying rules when he was commish. No eight-inning losses, no rain-shortened games, that kind of stuff. I think Hawkins' no-no loss was one of the games that got dropped.

2006-06-20 07:54:01
206.   Sam DC
Well, I've managed to convince myself that, if I sit down in front of my tv at 10 pm tomorrow night and turn on ESPN, I will see Chad the Impaler pitching against the Seattle Mariners.

That is the nickname we settled on, right?

2006-06-20 08:19:04
207.   Marty
I still like Bills the Dunner.
2006-06-20 08:50:59
208.   Bob Timmermann
Hawkins did indeed lose his no-hitter. So did Matt Young.

The only pitcher to lose a 9-inning no-hitter was Ken Johnson of Houston.

2006-06-20 09:00:19
209.   Bob Timmermann

That was rather ambiguous.

Hawkins and Young lost the status of no-hitters.

Johnson was the losing pitcher in a no-hitter.

2006-06-20 09:47:24
210.   Blu2
Can't believe I scooped Bob T.! See 173 See also 182 I'm quitting while I'm still behind.
2006-06-20 10:08:40
211.   Bob Timmermann
I guess I missed Johnson because you called him by his full name.

You sound like his mom trying to get him to come back from the sandlot,

Kenneth Travis Johnson! You get back home right now or else you won't be able to sit down a for a week!

2006-06-20 10:42:14
212.   ToyCannon
I thought Jim Maloney had lost a no hitter and I was right but it was shades of the misfortune that befell Harvey Haddix.

From Wiki
Nevertheless, Maloney was a dominant pitcher. In 1965, he pitched two no-hit games. On June 14, he held the New York Mets hitless for 10 innings before losing the no-hitter (and the game, 1-0) on a lead-off home run to Johnny Lewis in the 11th. On August 19, he mastered the Chicago Cubs, 1-0. In 1969, in what would be the twilight of his career, he threw his third no-no, trouncing Houston, 10-0.

So now we have Haddix and Maloney as two pitchers who had no hitters after 10 inning and then lost both the no hitter and the game . So does anyone know how many other pitchers have carried a no hitter past 9 innings?

2006-06-20 10:49:12
213.   Blu2
Moi? I just pasted in the report from whatever website I stole it from...
On another front, I live about 60 miles west of Las Vegas and TV comes in here vis satellite, either Dish or Direct. We get the 'local' (Las Vegas) channels but the Fox feed here is different from LA, no Dodger Baseball. So I just went through a long conversation with Dish and I MAY be able to add the Fox Los Angeles channel (Ch 11) for $1.50 a month. If the guys in the corner offices agree, that is. No go on Channel 9 though. I'm posting this so some of you guys in other areas getting cable might be able to talk your provider into getting it for you, it is availabe to them. Better yet if McCourt would buy a super station and put all the games out there (for a fee) like Ted Turner does...
2006-06-20 10:53:31
214.   Blu2
212 Managers being what they are today, one has to wonder if we'll ever see a 9 inning no hitter from a single pitcher again. He'll have to hold his pitch count to 10 pitches per inning.
2006-06-20 11:09:45
215.   ToyCannon
Yes, even I was getting queasy watching the 21 year old Cain putting up 130 pitches in the 8th. I expect most Giant fans were rooting for a hit so that they wouldn't put him back out for the 9th. I'm looking forward to the battles that Billingsly and Cain will be doing as time moves on and I didn't want Cain to pull a Foppert.
2006-06-20 11:10:34
216.   dzzrtRatt
Pitch count! I realize that everything measureable eventually shows up in baseball communications, but I hate hearing about pitch count!

Pitch count has turned pitchers from warriors into bureaucrats.

The question used to be: Can he finish the game? Does he have enough "gas" left in the tank? Now, it's a push-button question: How many pitches has he thrown? Oooh, he's thrown 115 pitches, better get him out of there.

I know. It's all Tom Lasorda's fault. He ruined Fernando and Orel because he let them complete too many games and throw too many pitchers. Managers since then haven't wanted to be known as a guy who blows out a pitcher's shoulder or elbow. So, they count pitches. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6...etc.

Was that really so wrong? If Orel and Fernando had wanted to leave their games, they could have done so.

The great pitchers of my youth threw complete games. They had less physical conditioning, most of them didn't lift weights, and most of them took the winter off to fish, shoot ducks or manage a beer distributorship. And yet some of them managed to pitch for 10 or even 20 years.

No more pitch counts around me. Vin Scully, stop talking about them. Whether a pitcher is done or not should be based on results, or on what the catcher tells the manager, or what the pitcher himself says. Not a calculator.

End of rant.

2006-06-20 11:14:48
217.   ToyCannon
I expect from the group of Santana, F Hernandez, Liriano, Bonderman, Verlander, Cain, Harden, Haren, Peavy, Myers, Zambrano, Kazmir, D Cabrera, Olsen, Oswalt, and Contreras we'll see a 9 inning no hitter again.
2006-06-20 11:20:22
218.   fanerman
216 - What do you think would be a better method of preventing pitcher injury?
2006-06-20 11:21:01
219.   ToyCannon
Couldn't disagree more, age and pitch counts are important. What your ignoring are the number of other pitchers besides the horses who blew out their arms during those periods and whose careers went from bright to dismal. The names you've never heard of because by the time they were 23 they were no longer the Billingsly of the time but the Wally Bunker. The man I just highlighted Jim Maloney is a perfect example. Baseball is evolving and not letting a 21 year old throw 150 pitches for one game glory is a good thing in my opinion.
2006-06-20 11:32:12
220.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.

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