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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with, Eat Your Heart Out
2006-08-11 09:40
by Jon Weisman

For Slate on Thursday, Neal Pollack wrote a funny piece about what it was like to move to the town of his favorite baseball team, the Dodgers, for the first time. Among other amusing and PG-13 tidbits (You talk to your spouse with that mouth?! Oh, you do ... never mind), there was this:

... In addition to the occasional bonus tickets from my friend, I split a 25-game package with a paralegal named Craig who I met on the Dodger Thoughts bulletin board. ...

So I got a little curious and checked the archives. Sure enough ...

34. NPB 2006-03-06 11:01:03
I don't know if this is appropriate or not, but I want to buy one of those 27-game flex-paks, but neither have the time or the income to do the whole thing. Is there a kind stranger on this board who'd be interested in splitting a third of a season-ticket package with a longtime Dodger fan who just moved to town? We'd go 13-13, and then attend opening day together, unless you're afraid or already have Opening Day tickets, in which case I'd pay a slightly higher percentage. Let me know. Thanks.

There was a response about an hour later, though not from "Craig," which I suppose might be an alias. Or, the first responder didn't like Pollack's deodorant.

* * *

Last to first in 10 days? Mercy. It's like that time when I was really depressed, and then 10 days later, I was really happy. How strange to relive that.

From Rob Neyer of

What if Nomar Garciaparra were healthy enough to play every day, all season? Just wanted to see if you were paying attention, because of course the Dodgers -- like the A's with Frank Thomas -- are lucky to have gotten what they have from Garciaparra considering his salary (small) and his injury history (big). What's more, the Dodgers have been exceptionally fortunate with Russell Martin and Andre Ethier, both of whom are enjoying the seasons of their lives. But the Dodgers also have been unlucky. They have the second-best run differential in the National League -- which makes me feel good about myself, as the Dodgers were my preseason pick for the World Series -- but thanks largely to a 9-15 record in one-run games they're just now establishing themselves as real contenders.

Comments (274)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2006-08-11 09:54:11
1.   bhsportsguy
Okay, its me but lets keep that our little secret. Damm archives.
2006-08-11 09:58:35
2.   bluetahoe
With Lowry on the mound tonite it looks like another night of Jason Repko. And I'm telling you right now. If Repko plays tonite like he did last night he's going to have to take a trip to the courthouse tomorrow morning to have his name legally changed to Crappy McPoo.
2006-08-11 10:02:34
3.   Jerry
Did anyone catch Ray King's observation about Ethier in the AP's recap of last night's game? I thought it was interesting:

"'Tonight was a lesson I learned,' King said. 'I looked at tape of [Ethier], and he's a kid who's diving the whole time, so I threw a fastball away and he beat me. So from now on, no matter how many more times I face him, he's going to have to beat me on a pitch in.'"


2006-08-11 10:11:06
4.   Big Game
One of the reasons I really enjoy reading Dodger Thoughts is the lack of blathering, profanity filled tirades that are prevalent in sports fandom. Of course, I would post a lot more if I were allowed to drop some f-bombs about Repko not cutting that ball Helton hit off before it hit the wall last night, but I'd rather support the intelligent banter than wreck it.

Any coincidence that the Dodger win streak started right after the Penny v. Lofton dugout incident? I wonder if Plaschke wants to re-write that article ripping Penny right about now.

2006-08-11 10:17:50
5.   Bob Timmermann
I did not read last night's comments at the game, but I wonder if Plaschke was there to talk to his good pal, Sasha Cohen, the only person in sports he has given harsher treatment to than Paul DePodesta.

Which sounds really weird when you read it back.

2006-08-11 10:18:14
6.   FirstMohican
"If Repko plays tonite like he did last night he's going to have to take a trip to the courthouse tomorrow morning to have his name legally changed to Crappy McPoo."

Man, am I glad I read that on a Friday. Things just roll off of me on a Friday.

2006-08-11 10:19:18
7.   Big Game
5. Plaschke's not an Ali G fan?
2006-08-11 10:20:31
8.   FirstMohican
5 - I was going to ask how Sasha Cohen was involved in sports, but I remembered how he sang the national anthem at a minor league game, but then I remembered the other Sasha Cohen.
2006-08-11 10:22:12
9.   bhsportsguy
I disagree with Rob Neyer, while they do have a poor record in one run games, the fact they don't play that many of them should point out that this team had no real production from any starters aside from Penny and Lowe until Sele gave them 2 months, the 3-5 spots were mediocre at best.

Team Record in games not started by Penny & Lowe:
Maddux 2-0
Sele 8-6
Billingsley 6-5
Tomko 7-8
Seo 4-6
Perez 3-5
Hendrickson 2-5

The Dodgers are 3 games under .500 with this group but if they Maddux and Billingsley can hold their own and Grady slips Sele in a couple of times (at Dodger Stadium) for Hendrickson, hopefully they will stablize this deficiency.

2006-08-11 10:22:32
10.   Bob Timmermann
How about Alexandra "Sasha" Cohen?
2006-08-11 10:23:35
11.   Jon Weisman
Farewell, Mike Douglas ...
2006-08-11 10:24:20
12.   Marty
10 Isn't she the gutless skater who doesn't want to be out there when it counts?
2006-08-11 10:26:51
13.   Jerry
Will there always be guys like Plaschke? Or are newspapers going to wise up and undergo a sea change towards more focused and insightful coverage of sports teams?
2006-08-11 10:27:14
14.   Bob Timmermann
Mike's co-host this week in the hereafter will be John Lennon.
2006-08-11 10:27:33
15.   the OZ
4 Lofton clearly lit a fire under Penny, and everyone else.

The MLB ERA leaders are Webb, Liriano, and Verlander (all three are on one of my fantasy teams). Additionally, J. Weaver (no, the other one) if pitching great in a rookie season. Billingsley, despite his inability or hesitation to throw strikes, has shown he can get ML hitters out. Other pitchers like Garza, Lester, Papelbon, Cain, Adam Miller, Hughes, etc. are breaking down the door or have already arrived.

My question to you all is: when have so many young pitchers made such a big impact at the same time, or are poised to do so? It seems uncanny to me that so much talent would be breaking into the big leagues at once.

2006-08-11 10:29:46
16.   Monterey Chris
Lefties hit better against Lowry than righties do. Lefties are batting .362 against him (whip 2.36) while righties are batting .266 (whip 1.26).
2006-08-11 10:35:49
17.   Jerry
Jacob Luft of gives some love to Ethier in his wild-card-race article today:

"If you fellow East Coasters haven't stayed up late enough to watch rookie outfielder Andre Ethier play, chug some Tab tonight and make a point of tuning into the Dodgers-Giants tilt at 10:40 p.m. ET. He's got one of the sweetest swings in the game, one that will make him a threat to hit .300 every year from here on out. He's the best rookie in the National League, regardless of whether he ends up with the ROY on his mantle."


2006-08-11 10:37:34
18.   Jon Weisman
17 - That's not the last you'll hear of Ethier there.
2006-08-11 10:38:07
19.   Bob Timmermann

Who buys Tab anymore?

2006-08-11 10:38:44
20.   Jerry
Is it just me, or is now light years ahead of in terms of free content? It's a shame what's happened to
2006-08-11 10:38:54
21.   Marty
18 Hmmmm....
2006-08-11 10:39:09
22.   overkill94
To add to what someone brought up in the last thread about songs to play when Bonds comes up tonight:

John Lennon - How Do You Sleep?
Eagles - Lyin' Eyes
Flaming Lips - Feeling Yourself Disintegrate
Guided by Voices - Second Spurt of Growth
Minor Threat - I Don't Wanna Hear it (though it would have to be censored)

2006-08-11 10:41:32
23.   the OZ
17 Having seen Ethier play this season and reading the reported opinions of scouts, I'm wondering if he's an excellent comp for Jamey Loney (at least batting-wise). They both seem to be guys with technically sound swings that scouts love, capable of spraying line drives all over the yard.
2006-08-11 10:41:49
24.   confucius
I love the Flaming Lips.
2006-08-11 10:43:00
25.   alexx
What did Ray King mean when he said Ethier was diving?
2006-08-11 10:43:43
26.   regfairfield
20 If it wasn't for ESPN's free content, I wouldn't know that having guys with empty batting averages on your bench makes you well prepared for the stretch run.
2006-08-11 10:45:09
27.   the OZ
22 Great Flaming Lips reference. That song/album/band is amazing.

I'd suggest anything by Cream. Or, possbly, Everclear.

2006-08-11 10:45:23
28.   Bob Timmermann
"Diving" refers to leaning over the plate to hit an outside pitch.
2006-08-11 10:46:06
29.   Bob Timmermann
I like the Flaming Lips because I was able to sell my Hollywood Bowl box seat for their concert last month for $800.

A 200% markup!

God bless America!

2006-08-11 10:47:35
30.   Marty
I saw the Flaming Lips, musta been at least 15 years ago at Al's Bar I think. I don't remember much about the show.
2006-08-11 10:49:50
31.   bluetahoe
In the who'd a thunk it department.

Even if it's just for 1 day, today, 8/11/2006 (70% of the season), Kenny Lofton (.771) is out OPS'ing Brian Giles (.758).

2006-08-11 10:50:01
32.   Jerry
29 - The IRS has been notified.
2006-08-11 10:50:50
33.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Sounds like King knew before the game that Ethier dove for outside pitches. So why didn't King bust him inside last night?
When King gave up the homer, I pictured a sea of Cardinals fans nodding in disgusted familiarity.
2006-08-11 10:52:30
34.   the OZ
According to the all-knowing Wikipedia, the Lips got their start when Wayne Coyne stole some instruments from a church basement.
2006-08-11 10:52:37
35.   overkill94
Yes, the Flaming Lips do rock, has anyone bought their new album yet? Haven't had a chance to pick it up.

I thought "Second Spurt of Growth" was the most clever song title you could play for Bonds though, especially if you put some pictures of his Pirates days up on Diamondvision.

2006-08-11 10:52:52
36.   Bob Timmermann
I donated all the money to a 501(c) authorized group. It was called Bob's Foundation for the Terminally Arcane.
2006-08-11 10:52:57
37.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Saw the Flaming Lips on the second night of the 2004 Coachella festival. The lead singer made political statements.
2006-08-11 10:54:30
38.   alexx
Yeah sounds like if he's leaning to hit the outside pitch you don't test him with a fastball away. I read a little New Yorker article recently about Tab purists and the trouble they go to to keep a regular supplies of Tab in their homes.
2006-08-11 10:55:14
39.   confucius
35 Yeah, it's great. And now I'm going to listen to it.
2006-08-11 10:55:49
40.   Jon Weisman
36 - Not the Human Fund?
2006-08-11 10:57:36
41.   dzzrtRatt
19 My wife was watching Sex and the City reruns on TBS the other night and Tab was the sponsor.

It's starting to reappear in tony grocery stores like Bristol Farms. For women, and for people who think Diet Coke doesn't have enough of a chemical flavor.

2006-08-11 10:57:58
42.   confucius
37 There music is pretty political, although it does not always sound that way.
2006-08-11 10:58:40
43.   Big Game

Their entire encore at the Hollywood Bowl show was a political statement. They covered "War Pigs" by Black Sabbath and did a great job.

2006-08-11 10:59:04
44.   confucius
29 I would have paid that much if I had that much :)
2006-08-11 10:59:47
45.   Jacob L
I saw the Flaming Lips open for Beck in Long Beach a couple of years ago. While I liked the set, I was weirded out by the life-sized stuffed animals (fluffies, I think is the term of art). Having them as Beck's band was also not the greatest idea.
2006-08-11 11:00:53
46.   Jon Weisman
I drink Coca Cola Zero pretty often now.
2006-08-11 11:01:07
47.   Jerry
38 - A google search turns it up. "This is a lonely but inspired society . . . You can't imagine the purchasing and trucking and warehousing issues we address in getting Tab."


2006-08-11 11:01:18
48.   dzzrtRatt
Go on all you want to about giving up future HOF'er Joel Guzman. Andre Ethier was the steal of the (admittedly early) century. And from Billy Beane, no less! DePodesta must've had a serious attack of the vapors when he heard about that one.

I'm sorry, but that trade should be reason enough for the "Ned is Stoopid" contingent to at least pause before writing it for the 1000th time.

2006-08-11 11:01:51
49.   Eric Stephen
19 In college I worked at Smart & Final, kind of a cross between a grocery store and a warehouse club store.

Anyway, someone came in one day (in 1998 or so) and bought about 6 cases of Tab. Sure enough, my manager saw this and said, "you're buying Tab like it's going out of style."

I just about spit my water out. That was hilarious.

2006-08-11 11:05:58
50.   confucius
49 LOL
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2006-08-11 11:07:02
51.   confucius
I think they have a tab energy drink that you can get at seven eleven.

I don't think I've ever had regular Tab before.

2006-08-11 11:07:12
52.   Andrew Shimmin
The old Neal Pollack would have made Craig up, but I think that Persona is dead.

2006-08-11 11:07:18
53.   still bevens
45 furries is the correct nomenclature for those folks. I honestly cant fathon donning one of those costumes and sweating it out for 90 minutes. But hey, theyre on stage.

Anyone with at least a casual love for the flaming lips should check out 'the fearless freaks' documentary. Good movie about the band and its history, but most importantly its a good movie about family. Highly recommended.

2006-08-11 11:07:51
54.   bluetahoe
48 If we could just hold on to 1st place for the rest of the season that contigent probably won't post anymore.
2006-08-11 11:08:35
55.   D4P
I'm sorry, but that trade should be reason enough for the "Ned is Stoopid" contingent to at least pause before writing it for the 1000th time

I suppose it depends on whether you measure GM acumen based on (1) the info they had at the time of a transaction, or (2) how well the transaction turns out.

I think a lot of folks around here were not pleased that Milton and Perez were being dumped for "character" issues (especially after Mr. Double DUI was signed to a huge contract), and felt like that was too much to give up for a AA prospect most folks had never even heard of. Does the fact that Ethier is off to a great start change any of that? I don't know...

2006-08-11 11:09:09
56.   Steve
I'm sorry, but that trade should be reason enough for the "Ned is Stoopid" contingent to at least pause before writing it for the 1000th time.

Ned is Stoopid.

2006-08-11 11:09:17
57.   Underbruin
"What's more, the Dodgers have been exceptionally fortunate with Russell Martin and Andre Ethier, both of whom are enjoying the seasons of their lives."

Anybody else find it interesting that the article proclaims that a pair of rookies are currently having the seasons of their lives?

Guess it's all downhill from here. Oh well.

2006-08-11 11:10:36
58.   Underbruin
56 - I prefer the more onomatopoeic Ned is Stoooooopid.


2006-08-11 11:11:50
59.   bluetahoe
56 No he's not. He's done an excellent job. I don't know what your problem is but you need to get over it. Dan Evans nor Paul DePodesta is ever coming back.
2006-08-11 11:12:21
60.   Andrew Shimmin
48- The only trouble I have with that line of thinking is, if it was intentional, if he knew he was taking Beane to the cleaners, why hasn't he tried anything like it, again? Why didn't he go hunting for the next Ethier, instead of dumpster diving?
2006-08-11 11:12:38
61.   Ken Arneson
They drink Tab in Iceland, we discovered recently:
2006-08-11 11:13:36
62.   Steve
Talk about behind the curve.
2006-08-11 11:14:29
63.   D4P
He's done an excellent job

Exactly. Name one other GM who could have us 3 games over .500 this late in the season.

2006-08-11 11:14:41
64.   Andrew Shimmin
Yeah, Steve--your hero DePo is never coming back. No matter how much you beg and plead. He's gone.
2006-08-11 11:14:59
65.   overkill94
56 I bet you paused before you said it though!
2006-08-11 11:15:45
66.   Steve
65 -- I have 999 more to go, and I'm going to use every one of them.
2006-08-11 11:15:46
67.   the OZ
58 How about "Ned is Stüpid"? :)
2006-08-11 11:16:47
68.   Bob Timmermann
dumpster diving

That should be Dumpster® diving.

2006-08-11 11:17:49
69.   Underbruin
55 - "Does the fact that Ethier is off to a great start change any of that? I don't know... "

I think you could say it does, to a degree. Somebody told Ned to go get Ethier, and he listened to the people who evaluate talent. They grabbed him, and he's been lights-out.

Could anybody have predicted that he'd be hitting quite this well? Probably not. But that doesn't mean he doesn't deserve credit for getting a good player, one that ostensibly he was told to get. However, if it was more, "hey, Billy, we need at least a credible minor league guy" and Beane thought Ethier was overrated and tossed him into the deal himself, then it's just dumb luck, but I rather doubt this scenario.

2006-08-11 11:19:03
70.   Underbruin
63 - Jim Bowden? =P

67 - Clever.

2006-08-11 11:20:09
71.   808Bears
Hey, completely off topic, and I know there was a thread that talked about this a while back, but I was hoping for some good advice from you all about good ways to get to Dodger Stadium near game time.
I'm taking a half day from work in Oakland to drive down to LA with my brother today. We're going to the game tomorrow, but were hoping that we might make it for the 7:40 start tonight. If traffic on the 5 is bad, then we'll forget it (hmm... I said the, it just sounds better), but if it's close to game time and we're close, any suggestions on how to get through the valley and to the ballpark a little quicker? I'm super pumped up for my first (and probably only) trip to Dodger Stadium of the year! Thanks in advance...
2006-08-11 11:21:28
72.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Speaking of hard-to-find liquid refreshments...
I just regaled the office with the history of Coors and how, many years ago, it couldn't be bought back East. That fact even prompted the plot for 1977's second-biggest move: Smokey and the Bandit. According to Bill "Spaceman" Lee, when the Red Sox visited Kansas City, Yaz would buy cases of Coors to bring home.
But now you can get Coors everywhere - which means everyone now knows Coors sucks.
2006-08-11 11:21:43
73.   D4P
Somebody told Ned to go get Ethier, and he listened to the people who evaluate talent.

I think Andrew's point in 60 is a good one. The fact that Ned has acquired so many other stiffs makes it difficult to believe that he really "knew what he was doing" when he acquired Ethier. On the contrary, it makes it seem like he just threw enough stuff against the wall and Ethier was just "that which stuck."

2006-08-11 11:22:13
74.   bluetahoe
63 If we hadn't made a regime change here is what I think we would have looked like this season.

We probably would have had an injury plagued Bradley for half the season. We wouldn't have had Ethier. Our outfield would have consisted mostly of Drew, Cruz, Cody Ross and a dabble of Jason Repko with possibly a dash of Chin Fing Chen until Kemp got called up. Of course, we might have thrown 40 million at Giles for 4 years (ouch), or even Nomar in the OF may have happened.

There's no doubt we would have had Saenz/Choi at 1st. There's a good chance we still would have landed Furcal. Otherwise, it's a great possibility Antonio Perez would have been our shortstop. Willy Aybar would have been our everyday 3rd baseman. Could you imagine Lowe pitching with APerez/Aybar on the left side of the infield? With Kent's injuries we probably would be seeing Oscar Robles all season. I imagine Cesar Izturis would have probably been traded but I don't think we would have gotten a Maddux in return. On the other side of the coin, Nomar may have been our 3rd baseman instead of Aybar.

Our rotation would no doubt have consisted of Penny, Lowe, OPerez, Houlton, and possibly Billingsley. We may have been able to land Esteban Loaiza. I figure a full season of Odalis in the rotation would have him looking at 5-12 with a 6.50 ERA. Houlton, who wasn't able to get out AAA hitters, would have been around 2-10. Of course we wouldn't have had Sele and his 7-4 record, or even Tomko's 6-6 record as a starter.

Our bullpen wouldn't have had Baez, but it also wouldn't have had Saito or Beimel either. Sanchez would have made a decent closer. But after Sanchez/Broxton then what? Would Hong Chi Kuo and Franquelis Osoria be a combined 2-15 right now? I guess Steve Schmoll and Edwin Jackson would have been options. I guess Dessens may have been here still. Seeing has how the previous regime put little emphasis on relief pitching I don't think there would have been any other options once Gagne/Brazoban went down.

Bullpen recap: Sanchez, Broxton, Kuo, Dessens, Osoria, Schmoll, Jackson, (Carrara would have eventually been back too)……not a solid bullpen.

2006-08-11 11:26:59
75.   Bob Timmermann
From my experience, the traffic on the 5 or the Golden State Freeway shouldn't be that bad since most people will be heading the opposite direction in the evening.

You should be facing a long line of cars going the other direction once you get over the Grapevine.

I would suggest that you stay the course on the freeway. There really won't be any streets that are faster unless there is some sort of bad accident on the freeway.

2006-08-11 11:28:21
76.   Mr Customer
71 Hey, there's a good way to spend a day off. I usually get to the stadium from Sunset Blvd., since it's usually the least congested. That route is kinda inconvenient from the 5, though. You'd probably be better off just exiting at Stadium Way and sitting the monster car line like everyone else.
2006-08-11 11:31:33
77.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
75 - I would suggest that you stay the course on the freeway ... unless there is some sort of bad accident.

Then, it's OK to "cut and run" to the surface streets.

2006-08-11 11:31:39
78.   the OZ
71 You can try taking the 405 south through the valley, then switching to the 101 south.

From there, you can either stay on the 101 or take the 134 back to the 5.

When I was a kid we would take the 5 south, but right before DS we'd take the 2 west until it dead-ended into southbound Glendale Blvd. We then turned left on Scott avenue and took it all the way to Stadium way. Turning left gets you into the entrance closest to the 5, turning right gets you in the Sunset entrance.

If you take the 101, you can exit at Glendale Blvd and take it North to Scott Avenue. You'll have to turn right on Scott to get to Stadium Way.

2006-08-11 11:31:48
79.   Mark Linsey
Yeah, Steve--your hero DePo is never coming back

You must not have been reading this site back when Scott Erickson was pitching.

2006-08-11 11:31:54
80.   808Bears
75 Thanks Bob. That's how I've done it before, but always wondered if there was a better way as traffic backed up through Glendale and Burbank and Sun Valley. Nothing like a six hour drive with a Dodgers-Giants game as the reward.
2006-08-11 11:32:03
81.   Jacob L
71 Oh, yes! A directions question. Step aside while I do my thing.

When you get past Santa Clarita on the 5, get on the 210 going east (toward Pasadena). Then take the 2 south to where it ends at Glendale Blvd. Left on Scott Ave. Right on Stadium Way. Left on Elysian Park Ave. into the Stadium.

This route will save you, literally, days over taking the 5 all the way in.

2006-08-11 11:33:31
82.   bobbygrich
74 While I appreciate the effort, its impossible to predict what players would have been here if Depodesta had stayed, first off who would have managed this year.

I think Jon said it best when the season started, there just isn't a lot of difference between Ned and Paul, both would be loyal to the guys they picked up and gotten rid of players that did not acquire.

2006-08-11 11:33:43
83.   808Bears
[76,77,78] Thanks!
2006-08-11 11:35:13
84.   Bob Timmermann

I would lean to the advice of a man who knows the Southern California region like the back of his hand.

But I like taking the 5 because it is so delightfully ugly.

2006-08-11 11:37:18
85.   dzzrtRatt
60 I think because opportunities to get a player like Ethier in a trade like that one are rare. Most GM's have to tread water for a long time before a chance like that swims by.

Look, it doesn't make all Ned's deals the equivalent of the Ethier deal. But a little perspective seems in order. The Ethier deal is on a par with the Twins' rape of the Giants for Liriano AND Nathan, and the Rays' filching of Kazmir. The Twins trade has revived the whole team. And whatever credibility the Rays have is based on the fact that AL teams have to face Kazmir every five days.

2006-08-11 11:37:48
86.   Jacob L
84 Thanks. The benefit to my route is that you get to see the 2 from its headwaters to the delta, which is, strangely, kind of pretty. Plus it gets you to the game on time.
2006-08-11 11:40:29
87.   dzzrtRatt
73 I don't think this theory washes, either. Colletti was flat on his butt when he put Bradley on the market. Every other GM knew Bradley could be had for next to nothing because Ned was under ownership's direction to dump the guy. There is no logical way to figure that trade was luck only.
2006-08-11 11:40:39
88.   808Bears
81 That'll teach me to post before I refresh! Thanks! I think I'll definitely try that today. Hopefully, the rest of the drive goes smoothly. It's a cruel twist of fate that has left this never-lived-in-LA Dodger fan in the Bay Area for the last 8 years...
2006-08-11 11:40:45
89.   Steve
Fortunately, all that credibility is an exportable commodity.
2006-08-11 11:40:49
90.   Bob Timmermann
And if you call the 2 by its official name, you win a prize!
2006-08-11 11:40:58
91.   s choir
74 You made a lot of unwarranted assumptions there. I don't think you can say for certain what DePodesta would or wouldn't have done.

But along those lines, if DePodesta were still GM, Duaner Sanchez would still be a Dodger, and he wouldn't have gotten into that accident in Miami, and therefore the Mets don't trade for Oliver Perez and the Dodgers get him instead.

2006-08-11 11:42:22
92.   Underbruin
73 - That assumes that there are more Ethiers that the team's talent evaluators know about, and considered both attainable and better than the other available talent. Remember, this team traded for Baez and Carter - but that doesn't mean that they couldn't have evaluated Ethier as a good hitter. In fact, to my eye it looks like most of the team's traded-for stiffs are pitchers (leaving Maddux out of the argument one way or the other).

To borrow from the archives of DodgerMath:
"As Joe Shehann points out in his latest article, Colletti has now traded Johnson, Pimental, Dioner Navarro, Chuck Tiffany, and Edwin Jackson for Dessens, Mark Hendrickson, Danys Baez, Lance Carter, and Toby Hall."

What do you notice about the 'traded-for' group? Then take the hitters he's picked up. Hall is, IMHO, a mistake. But Ethier's been gold. Betemit's a young, power-hitting 3B (Andrew did a great breakdown of the Aybar-Betemit trade). Lugo is relatively unnecessary, but he's having a very good season, and I get the feeling he's injury insurance for Kent and Garciaparra, and can probably find some playing time here and there. I think that's pretty much it (though I could be forgetting somebody).

74 - Just out of curiosity, why do you think the team would have still had Bradley, when it seemed pretty much a foregone conclusion that he would be traded regardless of who was in charge?

2006-08-11 11:42:38
93.   D4P
Every other GM knew Bradley could be had for next to nothing

So, at the time of the trade, Ethier was considered "next to nothing"...?

2006-08-11 11:43:31
94.   confucius
57 I think he means season of their lives to this point.
2006-08-11 11:43:36
95.   bhsportsguy
83 Despite the reference to that other University of California, I might suggest buying your tickets on-line only because the lower reserves are already out in the latter 3 sections and the upper reserves are beginning to fill too.

I have never seen the Dodger ticket exchange have less than a 100 tickets for a game but for tonight and Sunday, they are both under 75.

2006-08-11 11:43:38
96.   ToyCannon
Nails it.
2006-08-11 11:43:46
97.   the OZ
85 I agree it was a good trade, but it is nowhere NEAR the level of the Liriano/Nathan or Kazmir trades. Not even close.

Our GM may or may not be culpable in the Twins/Giants deal, as well. Nevertheless, this comment isn't designed to detract from Colletti, but rather to disagree with the idea that the Ethier deal was an all-time steal. Definitely a good trade, though.

2006-08-11 11:45:24
98.   s choir
93 Ethier = Perez - Bradley
2006-08-11 11:47:46
99.   ToyCannon
I think the bottom line on Ethier is that he was playing on the Dodger AFL team and every Dodger scout saw him play every game. He was recommended to Ned when Ned was told he was available and Ned made the final decision to get him. It was big win for the whole Dodger scouting team, unlike the Hendrickson deal which was a big loss for the whole Dodger scouting team. Sometimes things work, sometimes they don't but for one year the Ethier deal may have saved the Dodger season.
2006-08-11 11:48:09
100.   bhsportsguy
I wish that KFWB kept that recording of the entire hour of the "Dodger Roundtable" that was recorded hours after they lost their 8th straight game.

I recall hearing Grady the next day on the radio calling from the Dodger Golf Tournament and he had that same aw-shucks attitude that may not work in the life or death fandom in Boston but certainly humors us So Cal types.

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2006-08-11 11:48:49
101.   Underbruin
94 - How dare he forget about Ethier's 2003 season with the Arizona State Sun Devils? He OPSed 1.061! :)
2006-08-11 11:49:46
102.   s choir
99 The deal also effectively ended Joel Guzman's Dodger career. Whether that's a good thing or a bad thing remains to be seen.
2006-08-11 11:50:49
103.   ToyCannon
If you dont' have tickets just buy them from a scalper. Rarely does a Dodger scalper get face value. They buy them at a huge discount from the season ticket holder and then make up the difference. It is not like going to a Laker game and paying 200.00 per ticket for a 100.00 ticket. Dodger scalpers are at the bottom of the food chain.
2006-08-11 11:50:57
104.   bluetahoe
91 If keeping Sanchez means would have picked up Oliver Perez than I'm glad Duaner is gone.
92 Because GM's seem to stay loyal to their productive acquisitions and Bradley seems to possess the qualities DePodesta liked.

There's no way to prove it and we'll never know but I feel very strongly this team would not have as many wins today if McCourt hadn't made the change.

2006-08-11 11:51:14
105.   Underbruin
97 - Yeah, I think that's correct. Claiming it's in the same league as a couple of the worst/best (depending on which side you're on) trades of the past few years is a bit much. Ethier's a very good player, but those were trades that shipped off franchise-level pitchers.
2006-08-11 11:53:07
106.   Bob Timmermann
Frank Lanterman is getting no respect here.
2006-08-11 11:54:24
107.   Underbruin
104 - To reiterate: "it seemed pretty much a foregone conclusion that [Bradley] would be traded regardless of who was in charge".

It doesn't matter whether or not DePo liked him. Bradley was pretty much done, almost certainly by decree from the ownership. And even if you disagree with that point, you have to at least voice the disagreement with my claim that he would be gone no matter who was in the front office. Saying "but DePo liked Bradley" is meaningless.

2006-08-11 11:55:11
108.   s choir
104 McCourt wanted Bradley gone. That's why he's gone.
2006-08-11 11:55:37
109.   Mr Customer
90 I've always called it the Glendale Freeway, but they all seem to get more as they get older. The name of the 23 between Simi Valley and Thousand Oaks is the most arcane one that I can remember.
2006-08-11 11:56:33
110.   bluetahoe
107 So instead of having Bradley for half a season we don't have him at all, which makes signing Giles for 4 years seem more likely... Even worse.
2006-08-11 11:59:11
111.   Underbruin
110 - Huh? That doesn't follow. Colletti gets to trade Bradley, but DePo has to just dump him? Once more:

"it seemed pretty much a foregone conclusion that [Bradley] would be traded regardless of who was in charge".

2006-08-11 12:01:11
112.   bhsportsguy
109 I can always tell if someone is from out of town when they refer to the freeways by numbers, I always think of them as the Santa Monica, Harbor, San Diego, Marina, etc. I'm sure that makes no sense to a lot of people, how can you have a road with two names, Santa Monica/San Berdo, Harbor/Pasadena, but that is how I always think of them.
2006-08-11 12:01:36
113.   Bob Timmermann

You mean the Military Intelligence Memorial Freeway?

2006-08-11 12:02:03
114.   Vaudeville Villain
I think it's possible to be pleased with the outcome of a trade but not agree with the thought process behind it. At the time it was made, I thought that giving up an above average CFer and a player who was a capable bench player at the time, (Antonio Perez), for a AAA corner outfielder who didn't project for power was a mistake.

Obviously the results have been favorable for us, but I think that's more a function of luck than anything else. Bradley has been fighting injury problems, Ethier has been amazing but lucky if you believe in BABIP, and Antonio Perez had the bad luck of getting off to a bad start in Oakland, and never getting off the bench ahead of the stalwart Marco Scutaro.

Arguing that Ned Coletti's foresight in getting Ethier proves he's not that bad ignores the surplus of other bad moves he has made.

All I'm saying is, even Jim Bowden makes a good deal once in a while. (The Cincinatti one.) A GM must be evaluated with a eye for all of his moves, and his record thus far is not favorable.

2006-08-11 12:02:33
115.   GoBears
There's no way to prove it and we'll never know but I feel very strongly this team would not have as many wins today if McCourt hadn't made the change.

Just wondering - would you have made the same statement 10 days ago? Or if Ethier and Martin had come up and struggled like rookies are expected to?

2006-08-11 12:03:39
116.   bluetahoe
111 It's safe to say then that every GM knew Bradley was gone, meaning we wouldn't have gotten fair trade value. I guess what I'm saying, is that unless DePo got Ethier for Bradley its highly unlikely he would have gotten a player that would have made an impact on this 2006 squad.
2006-08-11 12:05:24
117.   Mr Customer
113 Yup. Specifically, of the 100/442/MIS triad, and posted as such.
2006-08-11 12:05:32
118.   bluetahoe
115 Probably not.
2006-08-11 12:05:46
119.   Underbruin
114 - I'm starting to wonder if Colletti's ability to evaluate talent is reasonably good on the hitting side, but atrocious on the pitching side. Look at his deals - basically every one for a pitcher has been awful, excepting possibly Maddux.

But the position players he's brought in have ranged from unnecessary but not really bad themselves (Hall & Lugo) to a projectible talent (Betemit) to a great steal (Ethier). Maybe he just can't evaluate pitching?

2006-08-11 12:08:26
120.   D4P
It's safe to say then that every GM knew Bradley was gone, meaning we wouldn't have gotten fair trade value

So, Ethier wasn't fair trade value...?

2006-08-11 12:08:37
121.   Underbruin
116 - And, if Ethier was available to DePo as well (seeing as he used to work for the As I'd be surprised if he had -fewer- trade options with Beane), who's to say he wouldn't have made the same trade? It very well could be that Ethier was the best available player on the market that Bradley could get, and has simply outperformed expectations.

The what-if game is unnecessary and rather pointless. It's a new season. Leave DePo behind and evaluate Colletti on his own merits (see 119).

2006-08-11 12:09:19
122.   Bob Timmermann
Real men keep up with the varying names of State Route 91 as the keep driving east on it after it starts out as the Artesia Freeway. Or it might actually start out as the Redondo Beach Freeway or Gardena Freeway. But there are more changes in store.

I will give away one ticket in the reserved for Tuesday's Dodgers game (Aisle 55, Row 5) to the first person to email with the correct answer to the question:

How many drawbridges are there in Los Angeles County?

2006-08-11 12:09:29
123.   bhsportsguy
119 Could be but despite the infusion of young pitchers, there is a lot of dreck out there to fill out a pitching staff.
2006-08-11 12:09:38
124.   Bob Timmermann
That's Aisle 55, Row M.
2006-08-11 12:10:00
125.   Vaudeville Villain

Possibly. I'd disagree with you that Hall and Lugo are not that bad, though.

2006-08-11 12:10:45
126.   dzzrtRatt
105 Well, let's wait and see. You're right, I probably engaged in forbidden hyperbole in calling the Ethier trade the deal of the century. However, the Giants/Twins and Mets/Rays trades were made a couple years ago, and the key players have just started emerging as superstars. Ethier's not been in the majors for a whole year yet. I don't think putting a ceiling on him is ripe yet.

I agree also with whoever said acquiring Ethier effectively ended Guzman's Dodger career. Right or wrong, when Ned saw what he had with Ethier and Kemp, Guzman became someone else's headache. He had traded Guzman in his mind long before he did it in fact, which is why he probably sold him at such a discount.

2006-08-11 12:10:58
127.   Underbruin
124 - How many answer attempts permitted? (-Prepares to flood the board with incremental attempts...-)
2006-08-11 12:11:59
128.   dzzrtRatt
121 The return of who's-to-say-bermetics!
2006-08-11 12:13:50
129.   dzzrtRatt
I believe there are two drawbridges in LA County. One on Terminal Island. The other, I think, spans the LA River near East LA.
2006-08-11 12:14:31
130.   Steve
He had traded Guzman in his mind long before he did it in fact, which is why he probably sold him at such a discount.

I said this yesterday, and was accused of forbidden hyperbole.

2006-08-11 12:14:38
131.   D4P
The return of who's-to-say-bermetics!

It never really left...

2006-08-11 12:14:48
132.   Underbruin
125 - I think Lugo is just redundant. It wasn't a good trade, but it's not as if Lugo himself is a terrible player. I'm willing to give on Hall. I'm not trying to argue that the trades were good, I'm just looking at the players themselves - I think there's something in this, though. Even accepting Hall as a bad player, we have 3 of 4 position players are fairly talented or projects with upside. Meanwhile, on the pitching staff... Uhh... Even giving him Maddux, I'd say Ned is, what, 1 for 6 or something like that?
2006-08-11 12:16:44
133.   Underbruin
128 - I'm more interested in the... Aww, darn, I can't think of a snappy one-liner in response.

Uh, uh, uh, ba-ba-booey!

2006-08-11 12:18:02
134.   dzzrtRatt
130 Lucky for me, I think the red-light camera at the Hyperbole intersection is down for repairs today.

It's human nature: You always are in a weaker position in a negotiation if you think what you're selling is crap. Ned didn't have it in him to say to any GM, "Guzman will make you into a champion." He didn't believe it, so he couldn't sell it.

2006-08-11 12:18:52
135.   Mr Customer
122 Lift, Bascule, or Swing? Or all types? Hold on, Homeland Security is calling on the other line...
2006-08-11 12:19:09
136.   Bob Timmermann

Why would there be a drawbridge in East L.A.? The Los Angeles River doesn't go through East L.A.

2006-08-11 12:19:11
137.   Vaudeville Villain

Let me make a list, because I'm blanking. Pitchers Ned has brought in, off the top of my head. (Fill in if I leave stuff out or get it wrong.)


I think that's it.

2006-08-11 12:20:19
138.   bluetahoe
With the likes of Betemit, Loney, Ethier, Kemp, and the vets Drew and Kent there's no roster spot for Guzman, not even next season. Besides, Ned is going to look to upgrade the pitching through free agency next season. I don't see us making any consequential trades this offseason. Guzman would just be laboring in the minors next year. Why not trade him for a Lugo who has shown some pop this season and can play several positions and his a huge insurance policy if Kent/Nomar don't come back healthy. The trade makes sense.
2006-08-11 12:20:55
139.   Underbruin
136 - I know there's 3 that connect Venice to LA, but I have no idea if there are any others.
2006-08-11 12:21:37
140.   dzzrtRatt
136 I said "near East LA." What I fuzzily recall is there is a bridge that gets you to East LA from the west, and perhaps it was a drawbridge, although it does sound absurd.

Apparently I dreamed this. I know I'm right about TI, though.

2006-08-11 12:21:43
141.   bluetahoe
137 You missed a BIG one. Aaron Sele.
2006-08-11 12:21:50
142.   Underbruin
... 139 was supposed to be in jest. That didn't come through at all. -_-
2006-08-11 12:22:10
143.   Vaudeville Villain

When you have already traded for Wilson Betemit, who can also play multiple positions, and have Ramon Martinez, why bring Lugo in?

2006-08-11 12:24:26
144.   King of the Hobos
137 Seo and Sele. If you want to include minor leaguers, then he has also acquired Ben Kozlowski and BJ LaMura.
2006-08-11 12:24:28
145.   Bob Timmermann
Well, the answer is two. They are right next to each other on Terminal Island. They are the Henry Ford Bridge, aka the Badger Avenue Bascule Bridge and the Commodore Schuyler Heim Draw Bridge. The former is for trains and the latter is for cars and trucks.

I had to research this once and called up various city and county officials and asked if there were any drawbridges on the Los Angeles River. A guy from County Public Works told me, "We don't get too many ocean going vessels on that river."

2006-08-11 12:24:33
146.   bluetahoe
I think what Joe Beimel has brought to the table this season hasn't been appreciated enough.
2006-08-11 12:24:51
147.   King of the Hobos
144 And Dessens.
2006-08-11 12:26:03
148.   Robert Daeley
143 I'm guessing it's more like when you have already traded for Wilson Betemit, and have Ramon Martinez...and have your 1B and 2B starters on the DL, and just traded one of your many shortstops. :)
2006-08-11 12:26:48
149.   Andrew Shimmin
79- I was teasing him. I debated ending the comment with LOL, so people would know it was funny, but decided that was a bridge too far.
2006-08-11 12:27:10
150.   Johnson
90 I grew up within a few miles of the terminus of the 2...the eastern terminus. We didn't call it the Glendale Freeway there. In fact, if you had suggested it was a freeway, you'd have been fairly roundly mocked. I haven't seen very many freeways get temporary traffic lights installed in the winters (they don't do that anymore, though).
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2006-08-11 12:27:39
151.   Steve
Andrew pays attention.
2006-08-11 12:28:17
152.   Robert Daeley
Has anyone noted we have the 4th best bench in baseball?

2006-08-11 12:29:06
153.   mike20
71 - If you are on the 5... pass the Stadium Way exit. Take the 110 West. Exit Acadamy Road. You end up at an underutilized ?! gate.
2006-08-11 12:29:06
154.   Underbruin
137/141 - Well, I was really only thinking of the pitchers he had brought in via trade, but sure.

Maddux - jury's still out a bit, but I think this was a good pickup.
Tomko - $4 million long reliever.
Carter - Do I even need to say it?
Saito - Nearly unqualified success.
Hamulack - He of the 6.5+ ERA?
Beimel - Good. Not great. Good.
Hendrickson - The "Bearded Jesus" has regressed to his career-averages.
Baez - See Carter.
Sele - Sele gave the LADs 2 good months, then remembered he was Aaron Sele. His ERA jumped over a point in the 23 or so innings he pitched in July.

We'll say Maddux is a plus, as is Saito. Beimel and Sele are .5 apiece, that's 3/9 - not a good ratio.

2006-08-11 12:29:42
155.   bluetahoe
143 Martinez has come back to earth. Lugo is much better than him. With recent injuries to Nomar/Kent and Drew's history, Lugo is a reasonable fit if your playing towards a World Series title this season. And I think that's what Neddie is doing.

Tonite's a good example. We are going up against a tough lefty so Lugo seems like a good fit in the OF tonite. Let Drew rest another day, especially against a lefty.

2006-08-11 12:31:12
156.   Underbruin
154 - Let's add in Seo (not so good) and Dessens (I'll give him a .5), and we've got 4/10.5. Still not a very good ratio.

149 - That's a terrible pun. I commend you for it.

2006-08-11 12:31:47
157.   King of the Hobos
152 I believe that was noted on the last thread. I believe it was also noted that the White Sox's bench of banjo-hitting, utility players should not be number one, nor anywhere near that list.
2006-08-11 12:32:19
158.   Vaudeville Villain

I think we had enough infield players. Loney came up to cover first, that only leaves one position we would be blank at, second, and Martinez could have filled in fine until the return of Kent.

2006-08-11 12:34:17
159.   Underbruin
152 - "Sandy Alomar Jr., reacquired last month, provides know-how behind the plate."

Just think, if we'd kept ol' Sandy, we could have been #1!

2006-08-11 12:36:00
160.   Underbruin
... "Toby Hall, obtained from Tampa Bay earlier in the season, provides experience and sock behind rookie catcher Russell Martin."

What the heck is sock? Does Hall only wear covering on one foot for good luck during games or something?

2006-08-11 12:36:34
161.   bluetahoe
With the unexpected tanking of Kuo I would give JoeyB a 1.

With the tanking of OP I would give Sele a 1, also.

I think it's unfortunate these 2 guys aren't appreciated enough for what they've brought to this club at basically no cost.

2006-08-11 12:37:44
162.   Vaudeville Villain
Julio Lugo's career OPS is .750 exactly. Martinez's is .715. Yeah Lugo's better, but is he that much better that we needed to make that trade?

Another point. Why couldn't we just go with Loney in the lineup every day, with a Kent, Furcal, Betemit/Saenz infield? Wouldn't you prefer that until Garciaparra got back? And if you're worried about the outfield, Loney can play there also.

2006-08-11 12:41:16
163.   bluetahoe
162 Lugo's career OPS is irrelevant to me. He's playing great ball this year. He's OPS'ing a whopping .871 this season. He's kept it up for 4 months, why not 2 more months?
2006-08-11 12:42:16
164.   the OZ
It appears the Wayne Renfrow could be an interesting pitcher to watch for the GCL Dodgers. He seems to be an undrafted free agent that pitched at Virginia Wesleyan last season, where he transferred after two years at Virginia Commonwealth and a year at Old Dominion. The Dodgers saw him at a tryout on his college's home field and signed him a day later. He signed in Late July and has pitched 2 starts for the GCL Dodgers:

11IP 0ER 5H 2BB 12K

It's still very early and only the GCL, but the kid could be interesting to watch. He's 6'3" 215lbs.

His college stats aren't the best. He put up a 5.12 ERA in 65 innings last season for VWC, with 56K against 29BB. He had an ERA over 7.00 in the year he pitched for VCU and an ERA over 8 when he was teammates with Verlander at ODU. Interestingly, he was at VCU at the same time as Juston Orenduff.

2006-08-11 12:44:23
165.   Vaudeville Villain

Because I don't believe he's nearly as good as Miguel Tejada, as his stats from this year would indicate.

He's due to regress, and we are going to be the team that gets that regression.

2006-08-11 12:48:19
166.   Underbruin
161 - Beimel and Sele get .5s because they are okay players, but not great. Beimel gets a .5 because he's a servicable middle reliever and little more. Sele gets a .5 because he has since regressed to his expected ineptitude, and simply receives a partial score because of the contributions he did make at the beginning of the season. How well or poorly other players do doesn't make a difference when evaluating how good one player actually is. If OP pitches brilliantly, Sele still deserves a .5 and not a 0, because he would have been the 5th starter on the team anyway, and would have still pitched way over his head for 2 months, and would have still regressed quickly over July.
2006-08-11 12:51:56
167.   King of the Hobos
There's a lot more to the bench than PHing, but it's all I have at the moment. It appears that the Marlins have the best PH OPS in the NL (and while Detroit and Kansas City top them, both have few ABs). Washington's bench walks the most, while the Colorado bench strikes out the most (Dodgers are third). The Dodgers bench has the most XBHs, and Cincinnati leads in PH home runs.
2006-08-11 12:54:30
168.   Robert Daeley
160 SoCK = Sourpuss Catcher Know-how
2006-08-11 12:55:03
169.   King of the Hobos
Ned also signed Carrara.
2006-08-11 12:55:52
170.   Underbruin
169 I have a crappy memory. Can we just agree that Ned's pitching acquisitions have been less than stellar? :)
2006-08-11 12:57:31
171.   bluetahoe
170 Yes........but it could have been worse.
2006-08-11 12:58:28
172.   underdog
It's a little delayed but I'm glad people took to heart my request last night that despite the Dodgers' victory, we should all find something to argue about. I'm touched!

152 Yep, noted in last thread, as was the revelation, specifically, that the Mets have the #2 bench in part because of the addition of Ricky Ledee. Imagine if we'd kept him - we could have been #2 instead!

2006-08-11 13:00:39
173.   D4P
but it could have been worse

Ned's motto

2006-08-11 13:01:07
174.   underdog
Funny, speaking of Ethier, yesterday I glanced back at Street and Smith's pre-season baseball preview I had lying around (okay, I was on the can ... um, for awhile...) Anyway, they really goofed on a lot of things. But in their summary of the Dodgers they noted the trade with Oakland, sending Bradley over the A's, by saying "Andre Ethier, the minor leaguye player the Dodgers acquired, won't help them this season."

They also predicted the Giants to finish first (hey, it could still happen) and a lot of their team summaries don't even mention players who ended up contributing a lot this year.

2006-08-11 13:02:33
175.   bluetahoe
173 What would you have done hot shot?... about upgrading the pitching staff.
2006-08-11 13:03:57
176.   Robert Daeley
159 172

If we had kept Sandy and Ricky, would we have the 0th best? ;)

2006-08-11 13:05:46
177.   Underbruin
168 - Oh. All makes sense now. Thanks.

172 - See 159.

And this is the internet. It attracts arguments like honey attracts flies. Super honey. Boosted with special fly-attracting oils. And gigantic signs saying "FLIES COME HERE"

2006-08-11 13:06:10
178.   D4P
I'll tell you once I get my million dollar check from McCourt
2006-08-11 13:07:45
179.   jasonungar05
I think New was the first to admit some of his pitching acquisitions have been less than stellar. Thats why they are no longer on the dodgers! (Seo/Baez/Carter)
2006-08-11 13:08:23
180.   Underbruin
175 - Straw man argument. We don't know what other available opportunities Ned had open to him that he decided not to choose. See 128.
2006-08-11 13:08:34
181.   jasonungar05
179 "new" is ned.
2006-08-11 13:10:09
182.   Humma Kavula
Tahoe, I don't agree with your opinions, but I was interested in what you had to say until 175. I think you crossed a line.
2006-08-11 13:10:26
183.   Underbruin
179 - That's very true, and it's a point in his favor, if you ask me. No GM is going to have a 100% success rate, and the ones that can admit they made a mistake will have better success at fixing the problem more quickly. However, I'd prefer a GM to have both a high success rate and the ability to admit his mistakes.
2006-08-11 13:12:35
184.   bluetahoe
Sele/Hendy/Maddox/Tomko > Houlton/Odalis.

Saito > Sanchez
JoeyB > Kuo
Baez/Carter = Jackson/Schmoll

2006-08-11 13:15:19
185.   Bob Timmermann
Reading arguments like today's makes me empathize more with Neal Pollock's desire to get stoned before a game. I think it would help now.
2006-08-11 13:16:33
186.   Steve
Let the stoning commence!
2006-08-11 13:17:41
187.   Bob Timmermann
I think we're looking for a less Old Testament-like stoning.
2006-08-11 13:17:50
188.   bluetahoe
You've never played a game of one on one and said, "Bring it on hot shot.", or "Let's see what you got big boy." For the love of Sam Hill, it's not a personal attack.
2006-08-11 13:19:40
189.   Andrew Shimmin
188- It is unambiguously taunting. But you knew that.
2006-08-11 13:20:14
190.   s choir
188 But it is baiting.
2006-08-11 13:20:49
191.   Steve
187 -- rats
2006-08-11 13:22:09
192.   D4P
I think we're looking for a less Old Testament-like stoning

He who is without sin, take the first hit

2006-08-11 13:23:29
193.   Eric Enders
186 "Let the stoning commence!"

Apparently I'm not the only one who took Pollack's article to heart.

2006-08-11 13:23:31
194.   s choir
192 That's the New Testament
2006-08-11 13:23:58
195.   Eric Stephen
Rainy Day Women Kent & Tomko
2006-08-11 13:23:59
196.   Underbruin
Aaaaaaand the thread takes a turn for the odd. Excellent.
2006-08-11 13:25:33
197.   Bob Timmermann
New Testament? Old Testament? What's the difference? It's not like there's any big difference between the two. Doesn't everybody agree on matters like that?
2006-08-11 13:25:34
198.   D4P
Isn't the New Testament less Old Testament enough for you...?
2006-08-11 13:26:49
199.   Andrew Shimmin
I tried to take a Neal Pollack article to heart, once, but I didn't have enough money for a mail order bride. So I got a sandwich instead. It was a good sandwich, but, you know, still disappointing.
2006-08-11 13:26:54
200.   thinkblue0
Saito > Sanchez

I love Saito, but let's face it, that just isn't true.

JoeyB > Kuo

okay? It's not like Beimel is a huge part of this team. He's a serviceable middle relief player...nothing more.

Baez/Carter = Jackson/Schmoll

Let's see: Carter was DFA'd and we're paying Baez to play for another team because he's so bad. No thanks, I'll take Jackson and Schmoll 100% of the time over those two.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2006-08-11 13:29:01
201.   underdog
"STOP IT! STOP IT! STOP IT RIGHT NOW! STOP IT! All right, no one is to stone anyone until I blow this whistle. Even... and I want to make this absolutely clear... even if they do say, "'Jehovah.'"
[Crowd stones the Jewish Official to death]
2006-08-11 13:29:05
202.   Underbruin
197 - Yes. Everybody agrees they're exactly the same. Everybody. So let's never speak of it again.
2006-08-11 13:29:20
203.   s choir
New Testament? Old Testament? What's the difference? It's not like there's any big difference between the two. Doesn't everybody agree on matters like that?

As someone whose family is half Jewish and half "Jew for Jesus," I can tell you, unequivocally, no.

2006-08-11 13:29:36
204.   Mr Customer
192 There's simply no possible way for me to participate in this conversation without incurring the wrath of God and man.
2006-08-11 13:31:07
205.   underdog
(That was from Life of Brian in case you were wondering)

176 Heh. If the Dodgers had kept both Alomar and Ledee they'd definitely be... older. If not 0th.

Speaking of which, haven't checked, how's that AA pitcher we got for Alomar doing?

2006-08-11 13:31:53
206.   D4P
For one thing, there's a lot more red font in the NT, and a lot less smiting...
2006-08-11 13:32:14
207.   Underbruin
201 - "He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy! "
2006-08-11 13:32:21
208.   Jacob L
Oddly, discussion of religion is not mentioned in the new site rules down there.
2006-08-11 13:32:23
209.   s choir
I'm really glad that the words "or religion" weren't added to the end of guideline #5.
2006-08-11 13:34:06
210.   Eric Enders
205 "Speaking of which, haven't checked, how's that AA pitcher we got for Alomar doing?"

Pretty ungodly. Sure, he's old and it's AA, but:

9.67 IP
2 H
1 ER (on a homer)
7 BB
13 K

He's the new, yet old, Greg Miller.

2006-08-11 13:34:18
211.   Jacob L
209 For once, I beat somebody to it. Also lucky that people aren't terribly sensitive about religious topics these days.
2006-08-11 13:35:18
212.   s choir
people aren't terribly sensitive about religious topics these days.


2006-08-11 13:39:12
213.   Underbruin
212 - Seconded.
2006-08-11 13:39:37
214.   overkill94
201 and 207 I bought that movie a while ago based on a recommendation (and a love for Monty Python movies) but was extremely disappointed. I can't remember laughing more than once or twice in the whole movie. The Holy Grail on the other hand...
2006-08-11 13:39:51
215.   underdog
People's Front of Judea vs. the Judean People's Front, exclusively on DodgerThoughts. Celebrity Stoning to follow on Dodgers-on-demand.

210 Ah, good, thanks! Maybe Las Vegas is in his near future...

2006-08-11 13:40:54
216.   underdog
214 You're kidding! Wow... I love them both but I think Life of Brian is much more sustained/even throughout. I literally never get tired of it. It does improve on multiple viewings so maybe give it another chance?
2006-08-11 13:41:15
217.   CT Bum
Great column NPB. I discovered the column not here, but on one of my daily (or so) stops at

I'm jealous. I'm a lifelong CT resident. I've long imagined what it would be like to have easy access to the Dodgers (in person or via radio/TV).

Anyway, great column.

Go Blue!

2006-08-11 13:41:32
218.   overkill94
And old friend Mota has finally been DFA'd by the Indians. Who's up for round 2 of Motamania?
2006-08-11 13:42:36
219.   Andrew Shimmin
Well, 214 proves this site is at least one rule short. How dare you, sir?!
2006-08-11 13:43:25
220.   Eric Enders
218 In light of recent revelations one wonders if the Dodgers also knew something about Mota at the time of the trade. He sure hasn't pitched worth a darn since then.

He'll get a shot in Pittsburgh, obviously, if nowhere else.

2006-08-11 13:43:28
221.   overkill94
216 I'm all for giving movies a 2nd chance - The Big Lebowski and Anchorman immediately come to mind as 2nd-go-round successes - but considering the fact that I didn't find it funny at all doesn't bode well.
2006-08-11 13:44:50
222.   regfairfield
218 Why not? Even though Mota's perhiprials are declining rapidly, maybe he's one of those guys like Carrara who can only pitch when he's on the Dodgers.
2006-08-11 13:45:19
223.   Andrew Shimmin
221- Were you stoned? That only works for Dodger games. And 2001: A Space Odyssey.
2006-08-11 13:45:26
224.   Steve
Witch! Witch!
2006-08-11 13:46:14
225.   Eric Enders
221 Movies that I didn't particularly like the first time I saw them but now love:

Citizen Kane
Strangers on a Train

Apparently there's something about Hitchcock that needs a second viewing.

FWIW, I've seen only one Python movie (Holy Grail), seen it only once, and hated it.

2006-08-11 13:47:04
226.   Humma Kavula
218 Mota alone was worth more than Brad Penny, who should be DFA.
2006-08-11 13:47:39
227.   Underbruin
224 - Does she weigh the same as a duck?
2006-08-11 13:47:42
228.   s choir
This thread already has Mota-mania.
2006-08-11 13:48:03
229.   Underbruin
226 - Ah! It's Plaschke!
2006-08-11 13:48:26
230.   regfairfield
I'm also assuming the Indians will be paying Mota's salary when I mention taking a chance on him.
2006-08-11 13:51:12
231.   overkill94
225 NxNW was one of the few older movies that I really liked upon first viewing. A good caper movie like that seems to hold up best over time.

Speaking of Cary Grant, I happened to watch The Philadelphia Story on TCM today. I enjoyed the witty dialogue and you can never go wrong with the trio of Hepburn, Stewart, and Grant, but the ending was just a bit too hokey for modern standards. Even the end of Love, Actually was more believable than TPS.

2006-08-11 13:54:55
232.   Humma Kavula
My last name in real life isn't "Kavula." It's Kaplan.

The first time I saw North by Northwest, I was inspired... I would have a son someday, and I would name him George. Then, when he was seven or eight years old, I would sit him down and we would watch the movie, and I would say, "Now, son, you know what lesson to take from this film: you don't exist."

My mistake was telling my bride about the plan. If I'd just said, "Hey, what about George?," she'd be on board. But I shot my mouth off and now she knows too much. Now she's insisting we name any future firstborn males that might come along after our grandfathers....

2006-08-11 13:56:11
233.   Humma Kavula
231 The Philadelphia Story is my wife's very favorite movie of all time.

C.K. Dexter Haven, you have unsuspected depth!

2006-08-11 13:57:10
234.   underdog
Big Lebowski is a great example of a movie that improved for me on subsequent viewings. At first I was disappointed by it, being a huge Coens fan, since the plot isn't much and it seemed overwritten (dialogue-wise), but each time I saw it again I laughed more and more, really loving the characters and the humor and the stoner-Raymond Chandler thing...

As far as Mota goes, no thanks...

Eric, I'm going to pretend I didn't see that last line there so I can still like you.

2006-08-11 13:59:59
235.   underdog
ESPN will offer up the Dodgers all time "Web gems" on Sunday.

(They're doing these for every team.)

2006-08-11 14:00:27
236.   s choir
I have never been able to make it awake past the first five minutes of Big Lebowski. I've always been either too stoned or not stoned enough.
2006-08-11 14:00:58
237.   Underbruin
234 - My opinion of The Big Lebowski is colored by the fact that every time that movie comes out of the DVD rack with friends, it invariably leads to the 'white russian' game (in which you drink one every time The Dude does). -shrugs-
2006-08-11 14:02:34
238.   Eric Enders
235 Lo Duca's catch against the Giants is one that sticks out for me. (In the past ESPN has already named this the third-best play ever made by a catcher, or some such.)
2006-08-11 14:06:57
239.   overkill94
The Coen Brothers are a bit of a mystery to me. On one hand, The Big Lebowski is one of my all-time favorite movies. On the other hand, I thought Fargo was extremely boring and possibly the most overrated movie of all time. Overall, here's how I grade the movies of theirs I'v seen:

Big Lebowski - 10/10
Miller's Crossing - 8.5/10
Intolerable Cruelty - 7/10
O Brother, Where Art Thou? - 5/10
Fargo - 2/10

Barton Fink, Blood Simple, and Raising Arizona are others I'd like to see eventually.

2006-08-11 14:09:46
240.   D4P
Loved Fargo, hated Big Lebowski. Didn't really care much for O Brother, and liked Blood Simple and Raising Arizona.
2006-08-11 14:11:32
241.   Eric Enders
Handy-dandy Coen ratings card:

The Ladykillers 4 out of 10
Intolerable Cruelty 6
The Man Who Wasn't There 7
O Brother, Where Art Thou? 6
The Big Lebowski 9
Fargo 10
The Hudsucker Proxy 4
Barton Fink 8
Miller's Crossing 7
Raising Arizona 3
Blood Simple 9

2006-08-11 14:11:55
242.   underdog
239 Funny, the three you mention as not having seen are the ones I think are their best 3. All so different from each other, but all pretty memorable. Barton Fink, maybe I just like it as a writer... and it does fall apart a little bit towards the end but overall it's pretty great.

Speaking of movies - and baseball - Jimmy Stewart's The Stratton Story comes out on DVD next week, and it's one of the movies I remember crying like a baby in when I was a boy. Or crying like a boy when I was a baby...

2006-08-11 14:13:42
243.   skybluestoday
Re: 239

"Raising Arizona" is to me the consummate Coen Brothers movie -- the one where their style is all of a piece with its subject. Knockabout (though sly) slapstick farce is right in tune with their distinctive style -- their efforts in other genres have often (though not always) been less successful.

2006-08-11 14:17:24
244.   Bill Crain
O Brother, Where Art Thou? is one of Bill James' favorite movies. (He especially liked the soundtrack.)
2006-08-11 14:19:20
245.   D4P
Speaking of Jimmy Stewart and crying, the mere thought of the "Dog Named Beau" poem he read on The Tonight Show makes me verklempt.

I like the soundtrack better than the movie

2006-08-11 14:23:18
246.   dagwich
243 I completely agree. A day doesn't go by without me using some line or another from the movie, which continues to grate on my wife's nerves. She is really tired of me saying "Turn to the right!" in Holly Hunter-style.

Except for Raising Arizona I mostly agree with Eric's 241 ratings, tho I might rate O Brother a bit higher, for the music if nothing else.

2006-08-11 14:25:26
247.   Telemachos
Completely off-topic:

This is absolutely, mind-blowingly painful (yet funny). A lawyer showed up in court drunk and the judge slowly but surely discerns the truth. And the whole thing got caught on Court TV.

There are 5 (long) video clips, but I swear... you couldn't make this stuff up if you tried.

2006-08-11 14:30:57
248.   overkill94
What's weird is I saw Raising Arizona when I was like 12 and didn't really like it. Obviously I wasn't the most discerning movie critic at the time, so I'll give it another chance, though since it's the Coen Brothers I really don't know if I'll like it or not.
2006-08-11 14:32:46
249.   skybluestoday
Re: 246

"No, not that motherscratcher. Bill PARKER!"

2006-08-11 14:34:26
250.   Bluebleeder87

WOW "I'm willing to play hurt" (chuckles)

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2006-08-11 14:39:19
251.   Jacob L
How many of the Lebowski nay-sayers are not from Los Angeles? I think its a movie where the local flavor kind of puts it over the top, though I loved it from the first time, if just for the musical sequences. I'm nutty that way.

Its hard for me to not like a Coen Bros movie. Their always trying to do something different. If there's one that didn't really float my boat, it was Man Who Wasn't There. I even liked Hudsucker.

2006-08-11 14:40:00
252.   dagwich
249 There's really no end to the great lines. These are some a certain somebody is sick of hearing from me:
"We're using code names"
"Son, you've got a panty on your head"
"It's not exactly Ozzie and Harriet"
"You've got flies"
"The prison system had nothing left to offer us. We released ourselves on our own recognizance"

I use "motherscratcher" all the time instead of one of those 7 words you can't say on TV.

2006-08-11 14:41:49
253.   Johnson
Wow. 195 may have been the best-constructed joke I've seen on this site, ever. I'm a bit late to it, but kudos to Eric Stephen.
2006-08-11 14:42:06
254.   Bob Timmermann

Eric's scorecard is about the same as mine except I would take two points away from "Intolerable Cruelty"

2006-08-11 14:43:36
255.   Jonny6
Re 239
Raising Arizona is a classic. I haven't seen it in a long time, but there's a few lines that come up pretty often in my house. Whenever the discussion comes up about having another kid (we have two girls already), I always look at my wife like she has two heads. And then inevitably I come back with a line about stealing a baby instead, and she replies "Hi, get in there and steal me a baby." It will make more sense after you see the movie.

But I am all with you on Fargo. I thought that was one of the most overrated movies of all time right after the Blair Witch Project. I liked the Big Lebowski but don't quite understand the cult following it's developed. As for the other Coen brothers movies, Blood Simple (their first?) and O Brother Where Art Thou? are probably my two favorites.

2006-08-11 14:43:37
256.   Eric Enders
249, 252 Hey, if we're gonna violate rule #1, at least we're having a good time with it. ;)

I myself have probably violated this rule quite a bit, considering I didn't know it was a rule until about a week ago.

2006-08-11 14:46:41
257.   Bob Timmermann

I can sit through DePodesta/Colletti debates without batting an eye.
I can sit through a discussion about the relative worth of Julio Lugo and not get excited.
I can have someone come here and tell me that the Giants are the best team in baseball and I'll just say, "Well, you have your opinions."

But if you don't like "Fargo", I've got a wood chipper to introduce you to.

2006-08-11 14:48:25
258.   Penarol1916
254. The same, only I would also take away two points from Raising Arizona due to the fact that my irrational hatred of Nick Cage requires me to rate every movie he is in a 1.
2006-08-11 14:48:40
259.   skybluestoday
Re: 252

"Not unless you think round is funny."
"Awfully fine cereal flakes ya got, Mrs. McDonough."
"You wanna find an outlaw, you call an outlaw; you wanna find a Dunkin' Donuts, call a cop."
"The doctor explained that her insides were a rocky place, where my seed could find no purchase."
"Well, OKAY then!"

2006-08-11 14:49:24
260.   dagwich
256 Yikes! I've been on vacation for a while so I missed the fact there are these rules. Sorry about that, tho I suspect we didn't violate the spirit of rule #1.

I'm glad I missed whatever motivated Jon to have to resort to these measures.

2006-08-11 14:52:46
261.   Robert Daeley
Soooo, a profanity-laced, hyperbolic tirade, sarcastically baiting the politics of the other commenters, all for the sake of arguing about no-hitters, is probably right out. Stupid rules.
2006-08-11 14:54:07
262.   Bob Timmermann

That would be an offense that would get you one of two punishments:
1) the wood chipper
2) a DVD set of "Becker"

2006-08-11 14:58:57
263.   Jonny6
What can I say? I have pretty diverse cinematic tastes - I'm a fan of everything from Monty Python (Life A Brian over The Holy Grail) to Memento to American Beauty to Escape from New York (just to pull a few random, totally disconnected movies out of a hat). I even liked Eyes Wide Shut. But I didn't like Fargo, and I definitely thought it was overrated. Although I forgot about a recent movie that was even more overrated - Sideways. That movie was so dull it made me physically ill.
2006-08-11 14:59:15
264.   D4P
my irrational hatred of Nick Cage

My hatred of Nick Cage is of the rational variety

2006-08-11 14:59:39
265.   Mr Customer
262 I'll beg for the chipper, if necessary.
2006-08-11 14:59:41
266.   Eric Enders
261 But that tirade would probably be funny enough to make it worth sitting through the Becker.
2006-08-11 14:59:47
267.   Marty
Coen Bros. Rankings:

1. Fargo
2. Lebowski
3. Miller's Crossing
4. Blood Simple
5. Man who Wasn't There
6. Barton Fink
7. O Brother
8. Hudsucker Proxy

I haven't seen Lady Killers or Intolerable Cruelty, but they can't be as bad as....

Rasing Arizona

Nicolas Cage ruins every movie.

2006-08-11 15:00:15
268.   Eric Enders
Concerning the irrational hatred of annoying actors, I'm more of a Ben Affleck man.
2006-08-11 15:00:38
269.   dagwich
258 I'm not a big Nic Cage fan, but I think he was great in RA.

I don't know if the well has run dry for the Coens yet, but they need to get back to doing their own stuff. "Intolerable Cruelty" was written by someone else, and "The Ladykillers" was a remake. I hope they have more of that black humor lurking in them.

By the way, IMO the original "Ladykillers" is far superior to the remake. Alec Guiness is brilliant in the Tom Hanks role, and the whole thing is just funnier.

2006-08-11 15:01:36
270.   Humma Kavula
247 is the most incredible thing ever.
2006-08-11 15:05:09
271.   Jonny6
I have a friend who is an entomologist. He submitted an article to a peer-reviewed science journal in which he described a male wasp mounting a female wasp as "finding purchase". He wanted to see if he could slip it past the editors and hopefully get the phrase into common usage in the entomological world. No luck though. The editors sent back the manuscript accepting the article but asking what in the world "finding purchase" meant and instructed him to edit that part prior to publishing.
2006-08-11 15:07:47
272.   Jon Weisman
Raising Arizona is practically a perfect movie. I weep for those of you who don't see that.

Game thread is open up top.

2006-08-11 15:09:18
273.   Marty
272 You n me are just gonna have to differ on that :)
2006-08-11 15:31:11
274.   underdog
272 Agreed -
"There's right and there's right and never the t'wain shall meet."

One of the few great slapsticky comedies (with great dialogue) of the last 20 years or so.

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