The meeting area near the pavilions is a good idea, although I wonder how the fans will adapt to it.

Basically, this is the Dodger Stadium experience:
1) Drive to game
2) Find place to park
3) Climb up to section where your seats are
4) Find food (can be omitted)
5) Watch game

There's not really much else to do. The parking lots are not conducive places for hanging out although people try and I find the empty beer bottles to be quaint souvenirs and a reminder to watch out for people on the road.

Will people want to arrive early to go look at souvenirs and eat hot dogs in a place other than their seats?

That will be the big question.

I don't think it will make too many people arrive early. Most baseball games, of course, are on weekdays, when arriving on time is barely an option. But even if it doesn't affect the masses, I don't have a problem with it. The point is just to have more options.

Of course, the larger point is to run any options efficiently.

So here's a question -- if the Dodgers could somehow build a park downtown and surround it with great restaurants, theaters, bars, shops, and other things to do -- would you be in favor of them abandoning Chavez Ravine?

3 - Again, I'm not looking for things to do besides going to the game. That's plenty for me. If you can improve transportation, food quality and line efficiency with the current location, we've got it made. Seems to me that's the more cost-effective plan.

3

I would have serious doubts about the ability of a stadium in Downtown L.A. to attract that much business.

Most Downtown revitalization plans start off big and quickly get scaled back. The Grand Avenue plan is alreay getting pared back.

I don't think Downtown L.A. needs a stadium to attract people to come there or live there. It really needs a supermarket.

So, ultimately, I think the Dodgers need to work to keep the stadium in Chavez Ravine economically and structually viable.

I can't compare Dodger Stadium's concession lines to other major league parks because when I'm out of town, I usually get to games early so waiting isn't an issue.

Even if I go down to Anaheim, I leave fairly early. I'm also the type of person who, if presented with a long line for food and the game about to start, will eschew food and eat after the game.

It all comes down to public transportation. If the train ran to DS more people would consider going early and hanging out before and after the games. I think a lot people would use the new pavillion consessions early. Unfortunatly, I think they would mostly use it to get more drunk in the bleachers.

PS. I am against the pavillion consession if it leads to more beachballs.

I would say the situation requires remediation rather than mediation, but maybe I'm being pedantic.

6 - I don't think Downtown L.A. needs a stadium to attract people to come there or live there. It really needs a supermarket.

How many miles do you have to go before you find a Trader Joe's? I don't know how people who live downtown do it; there's no infrastructure there that's open after 5:00 on weekends, and barely any on weekdays.

I think Jon's idea from awhile back will work--person "A" takes order, gets name, person "B" as part of food prep team makes order while "A" takes another order. In fact, I think we'll see this at Dodger Stadium this season. And I do hope it's a "we" at Dodger Stadium as I am dying to show off my Nomar jersey (mom got it, he's her favorite player so yeah, I'm keeping it).

8 - Yep, I messed up.

I would love them to come up with some way to increase public transportation to the stadium. But it ain't gonna happen. Frank loses too much parking revenue that way. I seriously doubt local officials would be interested in subsidizing Frank to make up for the lost income.

I actually think they can do a good job on the traffic situation. Hey, if there's ONE thing that Frank McCourt can actually run properly, it's the parking lot!

13. Good point Marty, but if some of that lost revenue could be made up from consession sales or an increase in attendence it might be worthwhile.

So, with Humma Kavula, does hotblackdesiato make two Hitchhiker's Guide characters? Or are there others here I've missed? I'm generally about one therapeutic breathing exercise away from calling D4P, Princess Hooli. I don't know if that counts, though.

Hey, this is homage to the British real estate firm. The Hitchhiker's reference is purely coincidental. I'm kind of a transatlantic realty junkie.

I'm kind of a transatlantic realty junkie.

Hey, who among us isn't?

With respect to the Dodger Stadium situation, I never really understood the desire to add a bunch of activities to the "ball park experience." If I want rides and games, I'll go to Disneyland. If I want to swing a bat, I'll go to a batting cage. If I want to run around a fake baseball diamond and time myself against Maury Wills, I'll go to Andrew's house.

I agree with Bob. Park, dog and a beer, pop beach balls, watch baseball. That's all I want.

18
Actually, that may be all I want, but I do think others expect more.

9 The Silver Lake TJ's is about 3.5 miles from 1st and Fig., so the answer is "much too far".

Perhaps to live in downtown you have to be able to afford to eat all your meals in restaurants.

An MLB game (1 of 81 home dates) should have about 10% of the "event experience" level of an NFL game (1 of 8), e.g. hot dog in your seat as opposed to BBQ on the tailgate. Baseball is a summer game; it should be a mellower, more languid experience, enjoyed preferably in the bright sunshine.

I didn't realize 3.5 miles to a Trader Joe's was the end of the world to some people. I only go there occasionally as it has some good things, but is generally half the size of a real supermarket and thus limited in selection.

BTW, not that it matters in regards to a ballpark, but there is a new Ralphs opening later this year a few blocks from Staples Center and there are rumors of Trader Joe's being interested in coming to the same area downtown. There are a few supermarkets just outside the downtown perimeter (within a couple of miles).

22 Presumably those that choose to live in downtown also work in downtown and have a desire to have things very close by - walking distance, not miles.

Ralph's has twice the quantity of four times the things I do not want. (There's a time and a place for both.)

The Lakers and Kings are going to combine for 102 free throw attempts in their OT game.

They missed the NBA record by 58! Syracuse and Anderson shot 160 in a 5 OT game in 1949.

Bynum had 15 and 11. That kid has an opportunity to be a really outstanding player.

That was almost the perfect game by Kobe.

For me the food lines don't bother me much. I usually try to get there a little early and the late arriving LA crowds are no where to be found, and I don't have to wait in line.

The real problem with the Ravine is getting in and out of the parking lot, not to mention the horrifying traffic into the stadium.

Even though I love the Stadium and grew up with it, and tend not to like all the bells and whistles in some of the new stadiums, I would like to see a new stadium in Downtown in the next 10-15 years. By that time, LA should have a more developed public transit system and it is nice to be able to go to a bar or a restaurant before or after the game like you can do at Staples, especially if you don't have to drive.

The Dodger Stadium experience is starting to really go downhill for me with the worsening parking hassles (I still don't understand how it continually gets worse as the stadium isn't any bigger), the traffic, and the lackadasical late arriving and early leaving crowd. The charm that it had with the organ music and pristine environment clear of advertising is essentially gone, so the memories of the O'Malley Dodger Stadium is just not there much for me anymore. I even miss the old metal seats as I don't much like the plastic, although the metal ones did need replacing.

I see the Stadium really aging badly after about 60 years (2022), and feel by then it will really be time for a new state of the art facility that could blow away SBC and Petco. One thing I won't like about a new stadium is the corporate name, but I suppose as long as it doesn't change every few years (SF) or sound stupid (Petco), I can live with it.

Kaufman/Broad/Maguire/Vivendi Field

I don't like the naming rights auctions, but it really depends on the name. Pacific Bell Park really worked for me. Petco is downright ridiculous. Citi Field has a nice ring to it.

I would love a new stadium in downtown Los Angeles, but I don't see in happening in the next quarter century. I hope I'm wrong.

I don't attend Dodger games in person any more, so I don't have an opinion. Three things cut down on my Dodger attendance. They are, not in any particuliar order.
1. Married w/child(ren).
2. Getting cable TV, FSN... which televises pretty much every home game.
3. Some tall skinny guy with a scorebook yelling at me every time I brought out another beach ball.
vr, Xei

27 I don't see any of those problems you mention with Dodger Stadium being solved by a new stadium, downtown or no.

By that time, LA should have a more developed public transit system
I think I'll believe that we I see it. Over the past few decades, improvements have had modest impacts. The reality is that the L.A. metropolitan area (the quint-county area?) is so vastly far-flung with few centralized destinations (what percentage of the metro population works downtown? Isn't traffic bad in almost all directions?) and with multiple mini-centers (Century City, South Bay, Irvine, Warner Center, Santa Monica, etc., etc.) that mass transit solutions are necessarily limited. Heck, they didn't even design the Green Line train to get within walking distance of LAX!

How about copious off-site parking on platforms above the L.A. River and/or in and around the old railyards with PeopleMover-esque dedicated transport to/from the existing Dodger Stadium?

30 I used to go much more often when bleacher seats were $1 - $2, I lived in NE L.A., and I could zip up in ten or so minutes via the once lightly-used Academy Road entrance for many a summer night (or day) game. (Of course, less family and career responsibilities had something to do with it also!) Now I go about once a season, primarily to take our exchange students from Europe to an American experience and demonstrate to them how much more exciting U.S. sports are compared to soccer.

What did Dusty Baker do with all the bubble gum people used to throw to him during warmups back then, anyway?

27 - That "lackidasical" late-arriving and early departing crowd you speak of is comprised to large extent of people who have work and/or parental duties that prevent them from doing any better. I'm not saying that's everyone, but it does get tiring to read that kind of depiction when it's all that some of us can do to carve out the time we have at the ballpark.

That's why the food lines matter. Because if you can't get to the game sooner - even on a weekend - and if you know you have to be home by X, the last thing you want to do is be stuck in line.

I don't know why one should have to be personally affected by that for it to matter. But at a minimum, I'd humbly ask for a little understanding. Being late does not mean being cavalier.

If I want to run around a fake baseball diamond and time myself against Maury Wills, I'll go to Andrew's house.

"house" might be a bit of a stretch...

I've gone to one game at Dodger Stadium since 1985, the game where Repko made The Catch. Where was I when he Caught The Catch? Standing in a concession line...

i don't want them to move dodger stadium downtown. it's perfect and i love it right where it is, nestled in the hills above the city. they can improve the concession lines, and the parking, and whatever else, but the park itself is phenomenal.

I live in Denver so I only get to Chavez Ravine about once year. The two stadiums are similar in some ways: great views, pleasant crowd. The parking for Coors is largely a free-for-all though. They have their own parking lots, but it is cheaper and quicker to park in the various lots around LoDo. That competition for people's business is the biggest thing Dodger Stadium is missing (and there is no quick fix for that).

Jon's idea for Person A Person B is how they operate it at Coors (and the dogs are a la carte). It works much better. The biggest bottleneck at Coors is that they only have one credit card machine for each concession.

That being said I'd take Dodger Stadium over Coors Field any day. I'd like to think it is not because of nostalgia and homerism, but quien sabe?

Going to DS as an adult with no children is a breeze with easy work arounds over the parking and food.

Going with children is a nightmare as you might as well consign yourself to tough parking, long food lines, and children who couldn't care less about the game itself unless your lucky enough to have LAT's daughter. While the game may be enough for Greg Brock and all of us, the reality is that children are bored and need to be doing something other then sitting on their ass watching million dollar babies playing a very slow paced game in today's fast paced world.

One of the things that would make my experience more pleasant at pretty much any stadium is the ability to bring in my own food. I don't want to eat a hot dog, pizza, or hamburger. I don't want industrial-prepared food. I want my own homemade sandwich, a piece of fruit, my own chocolate chip cookies, and a bottle of water.

40
I've always brought my own food into DS, they don't have a problem with it. What is better then a Mario's sandwich at DS game? As long as the water bottles are sealed they also allow them. I'm a fairly cheap bugger when it comes to paying someone 5.00 for something I can buy for .40.

Just an FYI for those who say the masses won't use mass transit they should take a ride on any of the orange, red, and blue lines during normal work hour commutes. Can't speak for the gold line but I did use it for the Rose Bowl parade and they were jammed to the gills. The platforms are always packed after Laker/Clipper games. The Orange line has already surpassed the expected ridership for 2015 from what I've read though I expect Bob to correct me on that ASAP.

Sorry to change the subject but Ben Maller at Fox Sports has just written that the Dodgers are in discussions with Seattle over exchanging Beltre for "surplus pitching".

Seattle has to be terribly frustrated that they did not get the 2004 version of Beltre but why would LA have an interest in him now? Does Ned think a change of scenery would take him back to 2004? With LaRoche 1 year away and Beltre holding a long term very expensive contract it just does not make sense to me.

I've heard that the Orange Line is very popular.

The Gold Line, not so much.

Mark Hendrickson : Surplus :: Government Cheese : Surplus

I'm a fairly cheap bugger when it comes to paying someone 5.00 for something I can buy for .40.

That's me too. I'm so cheap I come off as mean to my kids because I don't want to buy them popcorn and sodas at the movie theater and I usually make them wait until it comes to the dollar theater or watch the DVD at home. My plan is to someday get a decent home theater system, then see how they like my popcorn and drink prices.

43 That rumor is actually repeated verbatim from Steve Henson at the LA Times.

BBB

[43] ack!!! noooooo. don't do it, ned! just say no.

I never have a problem entering and leaving the parking lot. This plan was developed over the course of 13 years as a season ticket holder. Here is how it's done (please don't tell anyone else, okay?):

- Plan to arrive at the Sunset/Stadium Way gate at about 10 minutes prior to game time. Traffic tends to be worse earlier.

- Enter the parking lot and take the right fork onto the outside counter-clockwise parking lot ring road. (BTW, NEVER get on the inside ring if you can help it).

- Make a left into Lot 7 - the first Lot on your left, and park near the buses to your left which point out towards the Stadium Way exit road. The point here is to plan for an easy egress.

- Yes, you will have to walk a bit further to your seats, but trust me, you will have no traffic after the game. Besides walking is good for you.

- Here is the most important point, because this part will help no matter where you are parked: Leave your seats before there are two outs in the ninth and walk to the top of the stairs. Watch the final out, then turn and GO (a brisk walk will do the trick).

- Do not stop to go the bathroom, gather your things, or anything else. Seconds count. Be ready to go when the last out is made.

- You'll be out of that parking lot in 5 minutes. Promise.

- Oh, and eat at home.

48

Is that Bring Back Beltre?

I think the new market conditions make his salary in line with what he has to offer. He would fit for me. I sure think another 2004 season is possible. Even if he doesn't match that, he is a great glove and can give you 25 dingers a year. Betemit has been an adventure at third, has some pop from the left side, but might be a good utility guy and a solid left handed pinch hitter.

LaRoche is still unproven with a shoulder issue. He can always move to second when Kent retires.

Does anyone else think that Beltre's career year in 2004 might have been chemically assisted?

(48)
Beltre has hit 25 dingers 2 times in his 8 full seasons. In his 7 full seasons, excluding 2004, he has averaged 19.4 per year. I can't explain 2004 but his numbers are amazingly consistent if you ignore that year. You might get 25 homers but more likely it will be 20. We would all love to have 20 homers coming from 3B but wow will they be expensive. If money is no object maybe he makes sense but I don't see the value unless he plays like 2004. If Seattle thought he had one or two more 2004's in him they would not part with him.

Beltre was the 14th best 3rd baseman in baseball last year by OPS. If he had a more typical .715 year, he would have been second to last. This is including only those who 'qualify' in ABs according to ESPN's stats.

Maybe we should trade Penny to Colorado for Garrett Atkins. #2 3rd baseman, and he OPSed .933 away from home.

54

I don't see Colorado parting with Atkins but that would be a good trade for us. Penny has pitched well in Colorado also.

Salary aside, would Beltre be welcomed back? I think he would be.

Somebody said that McCourt might see some lost revenue as he fixes the traffic problem.

Maybe not: I was informed by the guy who organizes my season ticket group that the price of the parking pass will increase from $10 to $14 this year. When you include the $2-per-ticket increase, we're looking at a 25-30% increase over last year before one $8 (or will it be $10?) beer passes the lips.

I know, I know, it's what the market will bear. If people didn't pay it, blah, blah. I still can't help feeling like a chump.

Beltre would almost certainly be welcomed back with open arms. Then, when he put up his 715 OPS, he would be run out of town on a rail.

Then, when playing for his next team, he returned to Dodger Stadium, he would be booed.

you parking lot crybabies are the worst. be aggressive and keep moving. too many people drive around there like they have never been there before.

stay away from the outside ring. the inside one moves much better. i park in lot 3. straight down the hill to sunset, and on the 110 while the rest of you are still walking to your cars. develop your own strategy and stick with it.

58 - Gee, that was pleasant. So all the people complaining about the parking lot traffic are people who don't want to get ahead? That makes sense.

Outside vs. inside ring totally depends on where in the stadium you park.

I park in the lot closest to the Elysian Park entrance, and it certainly seems like every change made to the parking lot has been designed to thwart my escape.

Maybe the changes are designed to help people who do things like park as close to the stadium as possible, but they certainly don't help anyone who knows the loopholes of the Dodger Stadium parking lot.

Usually, we park in lots 13-15. Head straight ahead to the outer ring and we're on the 110 to Pasadena lickety-split. Yeah, there's a little backup as we pass back by the stadium entrance, but nothing terrible.

For the playoff game, the parking pass was not available to us... and we got to the stadium close to game time. We were parked in the very back... and getting to the ring -- the ring! -- took one hour.

someone answer this for me. i see from my seat that big lot next to the gas station usually closed off for no reason. no fireworks, etc, no reason for it to be closed. they keep it closed until well after the game starts on a lot most days, then people start going in, too late to make it on time, after they have been just sitting in traffic inside the stadium. why not have it open the whole time? more people would be in the stadium on time.

You guys are also talking like you have to park in the lot. I guess if you have bad legs or kids its less of a possibility, but I rarely have problems finding a spot near the short stop and getting in and out is a cinch if you dont mind a 15 minute walk (part way up a giant hill, but the system isnt perfect people =)).

People without young children (or 96-year-old grandmothers, for that matter), try to keep in mind that a 15-minute walk is not feasible for everyone.

Yes, I know that if you park far from the stadium, you don't have to worry about getting outside of the stadium. So stipulated.

It has always been my experience that if you are quick to your car, even when you see the final out, you're in pretty good shape. It's the dawdling after the final out that will get you. But that doesn't mean that the situation can't be improved, or that people need to be talked down to for wishing it would be.

Jon on comment #34,

I understand that people are going to be late some of the time with work/family committments. Once in a while I am a little late b/c of work committments and I'm not a parent, so I can only imagine that. However, it seems like somehow we have a larger share of parent fans in LA than other cities then, b/c sometimes the stadium is less than a quarter full at opening pitch when it isn't like that as much in other cities. Some of this has to do with the parking and traffic situation, but it is fairly prevalent at other LA sporting events as well. All I was saying is that if you can get to the stadium a few minutes before the anthem, there is usually no line for concessions, and it makes for a much nicer experience.

64 - Right. Quick to the car is the main thing. That plus parking near a lot exit. It's getting out of the lots and onto the rings that'll kill ya.

That said, they insist on changing the lot flows with new and illogocal lot closures (see 62) all of which seem to make the situation worse. Why would they close lots? Does it cost money to have them open?

I also think part of Dodger Stadium's traffic issues stem from the fact that alot of people truck in from all over the southland to get to games. Hence you have people arriving incredibly late because its hard to gauge traffic when coming in from long distances and leaving early because they want to avoid getting home at 1am if they get trapped.

65 - I hear you. And my point is that I think most people would love to have the luxury of getting to the game sooner and enjoying that. I don't think too many people buy a ticket to a game with an overt plan to arrive in inning three.

I will concede that some people probably are just naive about traffic and how long it can take to get anywhere these days, and are late because they aren't really thinking.

But I just get tired of the moral judgments and generalizations people make about people arriving early or late. Sure, there are ballpark dilettantes out at Dodger Stadium, but that's true everywhere.

54: I think you mean "farther".

I am fortunate enough to have a spot in lots 8/10 but I have to say it is a nightmare sometimes, largely because the parking attendant has gone home or has abandoned his/her post. Parental duties keep me from getting to every game on time (as mentioned earlier in the post), but it's really depressing when you have to show up late and then the $10 you paid in advance for parking doesn't keep your spot there.

Consider the logistics. If the normal person works 8-5 and lives in the SFV and his normal commute takes one hour and he gets home at 06:00 and takes at least 15 minutes to get his family ready in the car. Another hour back to DS and parked and were talking 07:15 before they leave the car. So if everything breaks right they get seated around 07:30 for a week night game that starts at 07:00 and is a crowd of around 40,000. These people have just as much a desire to get to the game early but other then leaving work early they don't really have a chance at making it happen. From Woodland Hills the commute to DS will average at a minimum of 40 minutes to 2 hours.
If I lived in KC my work commute would probably be 20-30 minutes and the commute to the game about the same. Unless you live in EchoPark or Silverlake I don't know anyone who can commute to DS in 20 minutes cause that is usually the minimum time spent in the parking lanes.

When I go with friends or by myself(most of the time) I park on Elysian park but that is not much of an option for people with wives and family who don't feel very comfortable walking around at 11:00 at night with a bunch of drunken Dodger fans just a few blocks away from crime infested Elysian Park.

My friend Chris had this ingenious idea for the McCourts to build pedestrian overpasses over the street so the traffic isnt interrupted with people running through the streets before and after the games. Not sure if people would actually use them, but if they were strategically placed I think it would help a bit.

I would tell everyone to move to South Pasadena from where I get to Dodger Stadium in about 10 minutes, but there are no more places to live. It's full. It's like trying to get a villa in Tuscany.

The lot by the Unocal station that was somewhat secluded has been closed off for a couple of years. I would guess that this was for security reasons. I'm guessing that that was an easy area for people to walk around in and steal or vandalize cars and also sit around and drink before the game.

31

While the organ music and advertising free stadium are a thing of the past (I still hold out hope for more organ music, since that doesn't have a direct impact on Frank's checkbook), a properly planned stadium downtown near a metro stop would reduce the parking hassles since there would be mutliple options, instead of one just one giant lot where everyone is trying to get in or out of at the same time. Not to mention a new stadium would no doubt have improved bathrooms, concessions, and sight lines.

10-15 years is a long time, and the mass transit system will be a lot more complete then. It is still an incomplete system, but it is much larger than when I worked downtown in 95 (overall rail system is about 4 times as large as then). I'm not saying every single person would use it, but if quite a few do like in San Diego or San Francisco it can make a positive difference. Also, a downtown stadium would allow for pre/post game dining/drinking which would increase the experience for a lot of people and reduce the traffic crush. When the game ends now, there is nothing to do except sit in your car in the Dodger Stadium parking lot.

Again, not everyone can/will take advantage of these things, but an increase in options for others would be a big improvement. For me, when Staples Center/Petco/SBC opened I realized how outmoded the Dodger Stadium model is.

You could also move away from California to get far better housing prices and commute times, plus maybe some fantastic skiing, then consider the time you get to a Dodger game once every three years or so to be the best experience you can have, regardless of what the parking lots are like.

Speaking of which, I'm planning a drive out to DC and back with my family during early June. Anyone recommend best stadiums I should see on the way there and back?

71
It would certainly help. Pedestrian traffic is a hinderance after games, those in the streets in those that think they have the right to walk in the middle of a driving lane in the parking lot. I've never wanted to park in the season ticket lots next to the entrance gates. They look like nightmares to exit and I'm always amazed that pedestrians aren't clipped more often by crazed drivers.

74
Yes, when you only get to a game once in a blue moon all this seems whiny but when you go around 60 times a year it is not so trivial.

another theory of mine is that a lot of people get into the games for free. they received tickets from work contacts, friends, or similar and are not so committed to arriving on time since they didnt "pay" for them. if that ticket money was coming out of your own wallet, i tend to think you will be there at 710.

74
Then again, fans who go to the Rose Bowl Game on New Year's Day complain about the parking a lot, even though for most of them attend only once every few years.

I really think Jon should get some sort of subsidy for being an informal think tank for the Dodgers. I suggest complimentary tickets for all of us on DT Night 2007. hehe

Is there any problem in this thread that couldn't be solved (and simply) with affordable, safe, jet packs? If McCourt really loved us, he'd fund jet pack research.

79 that's not a bad idea...Short Stop or Red Lion required before hand?

80
If you can use them to save a giant mole from destroying a Japanese city on a hill...

Andrew once again shills for the jet pack lobby. I guess emissions just don't matter to some people.

Teleportation, people. Clean, reliable teleportation.

What a friend we have in Jetpacks,
all our weight and things to bear!
What a priv'lge to be carried,
gently through the breezy air!
O what peace we often forfeit,
O what needless pain we bear,
all because we are not carried
gently through the breezy air.

77. Well, that would be true if you thought that for some reason that Dodger tickets were given away for free for whatever reason than any other tickets for any other franchise.

74. I always found Kaufman Stadium in KC to be under-rated, plus it is among the cheaper venues.

76. There is a guy in my office who leaves work at noon 60 times a year to go to Cubs games, can't you season ticket holders do that? Sure he's the boss, but I'm sure he would let any of us do the same.

I've traveled alot to ball parks, and since that's usually a 4-5 hour drive (minimum), a hotel stay (not cheap), and now with kids (short attention span), I LOVE the new parks and the "tourist destination" approach. Heck even the AAA affiliate here has things for kids to do... If it were just me I wouldn't care about all that either, but that's not likely for another 12-15 years.

Personally, I'd love to see a new stadium in the Chinatown/corn field area with access from the Gold line or Union Station. I love Dodger Stadium with a passion, but that would be nice.

I like parking in the 30 lots, its a direct route to my usual reserved level seats and I don't have to far to go to exit the Stadium.

My goal always is to see the last out and then make it home before the post game show is over on the radio.

Of course the downside of going to any game is not being able to watch "Dodgers Live" and hear Kevin Kennedy tells us about what he did when he managed the Red Sox or Rangers.

88
I've stayed for the last out and gotten home before the postgame show is over several times.

The first time I did it, it was a big accomplishment. But once I did it, I felt hollow. There was nothing left to achieve in the world.

89 You'll always have Jae Seo's save and the double error.

Those challenges will never leave you. Ever.

BBTF's 2007 Zips Projections (I think if Betemit get's 500 ABs his numbers go up, too) and 20 HRs is not a stretch. I just can't see getting rid of Betemit. He's not Mueller, but he's not Lugo, either.

Name P Age AVG OBP SLG G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB K SB CS

Adrian Beltre 3b 28 .275 .333 .446 152 596 85 164 37 1 21 94 48 102 7 3

Wilson Betemit 3b 25 .262 .328 .451 136 359 49 94 21 1 15 51 35 101 2 2

BBB = BETEMIT BEATS BELTRE

Betemit will be our secret weapon this year. I'm expecting big growth from him and > 800 OPS. If not him then LaRoche but our 3b will OPS 800 this year. I loved watching Beltre play 3b but other then SS/C that is the last place we need an upgrade. The places we need to upgrade are the places where Ned has stuck Gonzo and Pierre. Needless to say I'm less then satisfied with our winter but since we still have Loney, LaRoche, Kemp, Ethier, Elbert, Billingsly, and Kuo I'm not to unhappy either.

87
Great place for a new stadium but I've given up the idea of a new stadium with all the capital improvements McCourt has made to DS in the last few years.

OK, so let's get together a DT real estate fund and invest in some big empty piece of land near Dodger Stadium. We hold on for 15 or 20 years, pass our share onto our kids if necessary, and then sell to the McCourts (or their successor) when the time for a new stadium is ripe. We can use the interest from the fund to give Jon a nice monthly stipend.

Oh, and no recommendations for stadiums I should visit east of Utah and west of DC? Other than KC?

94
Strange that Bob hasn't jumped at the chance to pimp Busch...

94

You have to go to Camden Yards. I know it is not west of DC but it is close and worth the trip. You could go to RFK but it's not much of a stadium but the Dodgers will be there at the end of May so if you move your trip up a week or so it might be worth it.

I wouldn't want to take anyone away from this very important discussion, but would anyone like to
Smack the Penguin? http://n.ethz.ch/student/mkos/pinguin.swf

Play with the Kitty Cannon? http://www.burststudio.com/kitten.html

Or Spank the Monkey? http://www.flamjam.com/spank/

94

PNC Park in Pittsburgh is great, but it's not exactly on the way.

98 Sure it is. We might detour through Cleveland and Chicago anyway. Chicago I know about, but is Cleveland worth the trip? Cincy?

Cleveland, the city of, is a dump. The ball park is ok. Colorado isn't too bad, neither is Arizona. I've always wanted to see Kaufman field in KC, myself. I've heard that's a great place to see a game.

92 - I also have high hopes for Betemit, but his complete ineptitude as a right-handed hitter is a huge weakness and something must be done.

He's either gotta show improvement as a right hander, give up switch-hitting (could he possible be worse as a left-handed batter facing lefties? I doubt it) or be a platoon player.

I suspect this is why the Braves traded him. Now the question is: Can it be fixed?

Cleveland and Pittsburgh are closer together.

Cincinnati's park is nothing special unless you have a thirst for home runs.

BTW, Sushirabbit, a bit belated congrats on the new family addition.

Hope he won't feel cheated out of a real birthday by showing up New Year's Eve. At least he didn't arrive on Christmas...

98. Depending on the route it could be. It really depends on when you decide to start shifting north. If you start heading north before Texas, then you have to hit Missouri using I-70, and then the natural route to DC will take you fairly close to Pittsburgh. If you are heading straight west through Texas, then I think Minute Maid and Chase are the only major league ballparks you end up close to before DC.

Philly is very missable. Camden is worth the side trip.

And drop a note on DT before you come to RFK!

Andrew -- wasn't Bokonon42 halfway a Hitchhiker's Guide inspired name?

104 Definitely will be heading north because there is more to see. We'll likely hit Coors Field and then want to get to Wrigley and Camden as the big spots. Will probably hit St. Louis too. Anything else will be gravy. None of this is that far out of the way since we start in Utah, not LA.

105 Will drop you a line and maybe we can hit RFK together. We'll be in DC for probably a week so we'll have plenty of time to catch a game there. Other places I have to plan out a route that takes me by the appropriate stadiums when the team is in town.

106
The Cardinals will likely sell out every game in 2007, so be prepared to pay scalpers prices or prepare the family for disappointment in not being able to see their beloved Redbirds play.

But I can suggest a whole bunch of fun things to do in St. Louis for the whole family.

And I'm being serious.

If you are going from Chicago to DC Detroit is out of your way but not WAY out of your way.

Is "fun for the whole family" usually code for "fun for kids, while parents tag along"...?

109
Not necessarily.

108
Michigan, along with Maine and Alaska and Hawai'i, are the states that you can never really "pass through" on the way to another state. You have to seek out Michigan.

I suppose you could be passing through Michigan if you are headed to Canada.

110 Watch out for Highway Patrolman!

(Yes, yes, I know, that song describes no real place, and certainly not a place in Michigan.)

I'm hoping stubhub will be my friend.

Bob, that would actually be great. Can you email me? Anyone else who has fun things to do anywhere between Utah and DC is welcome to email me too. zappala [at] byu.edu

106 - Enjoy your trip, sounds like a blast. I was able to see both Yankee Stadium and Fenway Park on the same trip in 2000 in the year of my 40th birthday and included a 2 1/2 day stay in Cooperstown. To me, it was like a kid in a candy store.
I wish I had time to see Camden Yards as well.

On another subject, I want to thank the D-Backs for falling for this sucker deal and sending three minor league prospects along with an established major league reliever for an over the hill 43 year old pitcher who has seen his best days behind him. The D-Backs GM has just entered the halls for the Eternally Stupid, short-sighted GM's. All better for the Dodgers in the future unless we fall into the same trap of trying to recapture a player's "past glory". Getting the Big Unit made sense back in 1998, 1999, ect.. when he had some good years left. The Yankees Brian Cashman must be some "snake oil" salesman for getting the trade he just pulled off.

I just noticed that if I drive from Chicago to Pittsburgh, South Bend is on the way.

RFK seats are cheap and easy to walk up and get (shocking, I know) . If you want real good seats, pick a game and let me know; I work with a lot of folks who are overextended on season ticket packages and happy to sell off a game here or there.

I'll admit, this conversation really has me excited for baseball to come back.

Not that Ketchup Thoughts isn't fun . . .

I got to go to Fenway in 1988 when I was there on business. Of all the teams the Sox could be playing it had to be the Angels, the team I'm least interested in. But the park was great.

I've seen the outside of Camden Yards a few times. I've also seen the outside of JFK, Arlington Stadium and Coors Field.

114. So is Cleveland. If you're in Chicago and planning on hitting Wrigley, you may as well try to hit The New Comiskey, ticket prices are pretty good and it is right off the interstate on your way to Pittsburgh.

I got to see the outside of Fenway in 2005. My family and I could have seen the inside, but the lowest price would have been the scalper's rate at $200 a pop.

Baltimore's a good place to see a game, but don't ask for directions, or else this could happen to you:

http://tinyurl.com/fa39y

105- Yeah it was. Man am I ever glad that guy's gone. What was his problem, anyway?

92 - I agree. We don't really need 3B, if Betemit doesn't pan out, we have LaRoche waiting in the wings. The better trade was one they proposed earlier in other threads, Penny to Toronto for Alex Rios, a young outfielder who still hasn't hit his prime years. If we can work Penny and have to include Ethier for Rios and that young pitcher McGowan, I would pull the trigger. If we have to trade Penny to get a bat, that would make the most sense to me. Otherwise, I would keep Penny to start the season and see what develops as other teams get more desperate for pitching. JMO!

118
The charm of OPCY is diminished by the fact that you have to watch the Orioles play.

118

I saw the O's play the Dodgers there a few years ago (a redeeming feature of Inter league play). I think Gagne got the save. Great stadium, great game, great memory.

122

AAAGH-comment 122 should have referenced 121 not 118.

121. When I lived there my primary joy was in booing Delino DeShields.

Has the 2007 schedule been released yet? Or perhaps more to the point, who will the Dodgers interleague opponents be this year?

I'm contemplating a move to Seattle, and am wondering if I'll get to see the Dodgers this year.

The 2007 schedule has been out for a while.

The Dodgers interleague opponents are:
Angels (home and away)
Blue Jays (home and away)
Devil Rays (away)

2007 schedule is up: http://tinyurl.com/ufkjx

Looks like the NL West plays the AL East, this year, in the interleague games.

And when the Dodgers come home, I'm sure they'll bring some Devil Rays with them.

126 - I was afraid of that. Thanks.

So who will Ned trade when the team is in Tampa?

Aside: lake effect snow is really weird. Storm came through yesterday, dropped about 2-9 inches, depending on where you live. Today, bright sunny skies, 40 mph winds. Temperature dropped enough this afternoon that it kicked up some light lake effect snow off the Great Salt Lake. We're about 40 miles SE of the lake, and the nearest cloud bank is about 10 miles away, but the winds are strong enough that we're getting flurries. Sunny, 27 degrees, a wind chill down in the teens or single digits, and snow flurries. I'm staying inside.

Dang slow brain.

Drats, our trip won't take us anywhere near Anaheim, Tampa Bay, or Toronto. Why can't they play the AL Central this year? I may go to Toronto some time, but can't think of any reason to go to Tampa Bay.

118 Yikes. Welcome to Baltimore. You must have kept that bookmarked since May, just waiting for the right opportunity to share.

Apparently the Mets are now contemplating signing Jeff Weaver.

Brian Jordan wants to make a comeback. He is old enough with limited upside that Ned or Sabean could want him.

I don't want Brian Jordon or Sammy Sosa. I want to bring back Kal Daniels.

We've already got Eddie Murray. Throw him out there.

The only thing funnier then watching Bonds in LF for the Giants would be seeing a platoon of Gonzo/Sosa for the Dodgers. Then they could advertize the 100 HR platoon and negate the fact it was 5 years ago.

Franklin Stubbs: "$8 for a beer is not just robbery is it insulting."

Well said.

Things would be different in a society where interaction was face-to-face, instead of through intermediaries.

TV characters would be embarrassed to be so vulgar to you right in your own living room.

Imagine if Mr. McCourt himself had to serve you that beer, and say the words, "that'll be eight bucks".

But then there's Adam Smith and his division of labor. Long ago we made a pact to sacrificed human decency for not having to grow our own hot dogs.

133 - can't think of any reason to go to Tampa Bay.

I am flying into Tampa TOMORROW! Where is Rocc when we need him, there's nothing quite like walking in from a 90+ degree and humid Florida afternoon to watch a nice 72 degree air-conditioned ballgame...Carl Crawford and company are just a bonus at that point...

105 - Hey Sam, how are the sitelines at that stadium that makes the Vet look young? ;)

140- This was more or less exactly Thomas Carlyle's point when he called economics the, "dismal science." I mean, he was specifically defending slavery, but, broadly speaking, that was his point.

140 - I don't know about all that insult stuff, but not only would I gladly pay Tuesday for a hot dog today, but I would pay today to see a hot dog grown. I imagine vast fields of hot dogs growing in some sort of delicious cross between the Matrix and Field of Dreams.

I would imagine the most obvious place to find hot dogs growing would be in a landfill, soaking up the nutrients that make hot dogs the health food that it is.

I thought hotdogs came from storks.

Male storks

106
Having been to most of the stadiums between KC and Baltimore, I would suggest the following stadiums if possible. Coors, KC, St.Louis, Wrigley, Cincinnati, Pittsburgh, and Baltimore. Best of those to me are KC and Pittsburgh as far as the overall picture, but Wrigley is hard to beat for the atmosphere. You could also link some nearby ballparks in there if you're not in a hurry, i.e. Milwaukee, Commiskey, Cleveland. I personally don't care for Cleveland or Commiskey. You also may consider some Minor League parks. Indianapolis and Louisville have very nice AAA stadiums and there are of course many others on your route. Just one other note on Cincinnati, I see many reviews that don't like this stadium, but I think you would really like it. No parking problems, no lines, easy scalping at good prices, beautiful stadium, alot like Pittsburgh without the great views.

Indiana John, just curious, why don't you care for Jacob's Field in Cleveland?

50
They used to have a sign at Pacific Ocean Park in Venice that said `This Way to the Big Egress (I know because my brother swiped it when they closed down).

It used to scare a lot of people off.

BaseballHQ finally came out with the scouting report on the NL West.
They go into detail but since it is a pay site I will only post
some snipperts.
Top 15
Laroche
Elbert
Kershaw
Loony - His MLE after the 388 year in vegas is 347/399/488:)
DeWitt - Still likes him and unlike Callis feels he play 2nd.
Meloan
Mattingly
Hu
Bell
Morris
Abreu
Orr-really likes his power potential.
Miller
Dejesus
D Young

I'll leave the full writeup for 5 prospects.

4. James Loney 1B…..L/L…..22…..2002 (1) high school (TX)
MLE 366/0.347/0.391/0.488/6/7/1.02
Strengths: Bat speed/moderate power/contact ability. Plate discipline. Arm strength. Soft hands
Weaknesses: Speed
Comments: Led minors in BA with fluid stroke, bat speed, and contact ability. Patient enough to draw walks and uses the whole field, but power will be limited to mostly doubles by too much topspin. Outstanding defender at 1B with soft hands and excellent arm strength.
2007 MLB Role: Platoon 1B/RF
Potential Rating: 8B

5. Blake DeWitt 2B…..R/R…..20…..2004 (1-C) high school (MO)
Strengths: Athleticism/strength. Bat speed/BA ability/moderate power. Soft hands
Weaknesses: Pitch recognition. Speed/agility. Average arm strength. Reading groundballs
Comments: Bat speed and a more aggressive approach netted more power, but plate discipline regressed and didn't hit for BA. Improving pitch recognition could be the final hitting piece. Made smooth transition from 3B to 2B, showing soft hands, but must read groundballs better.
MLB Debut: 2008
Potential Rating: 9D

7. Preston Mattingly SS…..R/R…..19….2006 (1-S) high school (IN)
Strengths: Athleticism/speed. Moderate bat speed/power/BA ability. Soft hands
Weaknesses: Plate discipline/pitch recognition. Arm strength. Range
Comments: Prime athlete with potential for impact bat. Bat speed should translate to power and was able to hit for BA despite poor plate discipline. Steals bases on pure speed and good instincts. Below average arm strength and poor throwing mechanics likely mean a position move in future.
MLB Debut: 2010
Potential Rating: 9E

9. Josh Bell 3B…..B/R…..20…..2005 (4) high school (FL)
Strengths: Bat speed/contact ability/power. Plus arm strength. Soft hands
Weaknesses: BA ability. Plate discipline. Speed/agility
Comments: Swings from heels with excellent bat speed and power potential, and hits equally well from both sides of plate. Strikeout rate will start to affect BA in full-season baseball if approach doesn't change. Lacks agility and throws aren't consistently accurate, but has plus arm strength.
MLB Debut: 2009
Potential Rating: 8E

12. Kyle Orr 1B…..L/R…..18…..2006 (4) high school (Canada)
Did not play in the minor leagues in 2006
Strengths: Athleticism. Bat speed/power/BA ability. Arm strength. Soft hands
Weaknesses: Speed
Comments: Late sign, but the wait could be worth it. Generates tremendous power with good bat speed and long arms, but has the plate coverage and contact ability to hit for BA. Tall/athletic build gives him agility around 1B bag, but has the arm strength to play RF if LAD chooses.
MLB Debut: 2010
Potential Rating: 9E

148
It's not so much Jacobs Field. I just don't care for Cleveland compared to the other cities.

150 what do the potential ratings mean?

Thanks, Indiana Jon, that's actually very helpful.

153
Glad to help. I should also let you know that I don't like any of those parks as well as I liked Dodger Stadium. Maybe it was those 30 years I waited to get out there. I didn't even find the parking and concession lines to be that bad. If you need any other info let me know, I'll try to help.

Thanks, ToyCannon, for passing along the ratings on the Dodger prospects.

I had trouble understanding the "Potential Rating," which consists of a number and a letter of the alphabet. Can you explain?

Nice to see the encouraging assessment of Josh Bell at third base. This is another reason not to trade for Beltre or any other third baseman (Rolen). You would thereby ruin LaRoche's future as a third sacker and Bell's, too. You'd turn Betemit into trade bait/spare part. And you would even take playing time away from Loney, since Nomar would not play any games at third.

Over the years I have found a couple of quick ways to the stadium from the Hollywood side, and have found available parking outside the stadium. So that's never been much of an issue for me. If I know it's going to be an especially crowded game, and the lines to get a Dodger dog will be too long, I'll sometimes stop and get a sandwich and a bottled water to bring to the game.

Player Potential Rating (1-10) representing a player's upside potential

10 - Hall of Fame-type player
9 - Elite player
8 - Solid regular
7 - Average regular
6 - Platoon player
5 - Major League reserve player
4 - Top minor league player
3 - Average minor league player
2 - Minor league reserve player
1 - Minor league roster filler

PROBABILITY RATING (A-E) representing the player's realistic chances of achieving their potential

A - All but guaranteed to reach potential
B - Should reach potential
C - May reach potential
D - Unlikely to reach potential
E - Little chance to reach potential

http://forums.nyyfans.com/showthread.php?t=91855

0 - Juan Pierre

Awesome we have all kinds of potential but it seems none of them will reach it.

Aside from Loney being solid.

Thanks, Andrew, for explaining the ratings.

On the basis of these ratings, only Loney seems to have a real shot. However, it would seem impossible to assess Orr as he hasn't had a professional at bat yet.

I wonder how Kershaw and Elbert would rate?

I would think that most players as young as DeWitt through Orr would get low probability ratings. That's why people don't really start counting on a prospect until he at least tears up AA, and even then the chances are slim.

Loney gets a B because he's torn up AAA for a full season and then held his own in limited MLB action, but I'll bet he had a D or E when he was 19.

162
And he was probably a 9 not an 8 back then.

Hmmm...second game in row Kobe defers to other players in the first quarter...there's something fishy going on here...

Are they lowering the lights at Staples to make it look like the Fabulous Forum?

Do they do this all the time?

165
I asked about that a few weeks ago. Apparently, the answer is "Yes, they are lowering the lights at Staples to make it look like the Fabulous Forum."

David Eckstein is Earl Boykins on steroids. And with Michael Jackson Syndrome.

Except that Earl Boykins is an above replacement level player. David Eckstein is not.

168
Yes! You are correct sir, ahh ahh ahh...

Good Lord. Earl Boykins is channeling Bernard King tonight. Guy is on fire.

Kobe is channeling John Stockton.

When did Luke Walton become Dale Ellis? The kid has been hitting threes like that all year from what I hear.

"Luke Walton knows how to play basketball"

lakers are an incredibly deep team this year. Its fun watching them play. farmar is making a huge fan out of me.

To those who actually get to watch the Laker games: what is Andrew Bynum bad at? He seems to shoot at a high percentage, and racks up points, rebounds, and blocks at high rates. He also doesn't pick up as many fouls as one might expect from a young player.

From what I read, Bynum has some stamina problems and gets lost a little bit offensively at times, but everybody in the Lakers organization is incredibly bullish on him. The kid has a very bright future ahead of him.

Where was Mariano Duncan:

MOBILE, Ala. – Padres pitcher Jake Peavy was arrested and charged with disorderly conduct Thursday at Mobile Regional Airport.

Padres general manager Kevin Towers told The Associated Press he was told that Peavy was headed for a goodwill tour of the Dominican Republic with other major league players when he double-parked to drop off his bags and was told by airport police to move his car.

"The airport police told him he couldn't park his car there and he said, 'Write me up a ticket and I'll pay for it,'" Towers said. "He was arrested."

177- That is awesome.