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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
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Dessens Traded for Brewers OF Clark
2007-03-26 11:22
by Jon Weisman
Note: The Dodger Thoughts blog has moved to the Los Angeles Times.

The Dodgers dipped into their bullpen surplus for something a bit more useful, trading Elmer Dessens today for Milwaukee outfielder Brady Clark and cash considerations.

The right-handed Clark will be 34 on April 18 and the question is whether he has any bounce left in him to recover from the noticeable downturn he took in 2006. After posting EQAs of .275 in 2004 and 2005, Clark tumbled to .247 last season.

Clark would stand to take Jason Repko's spot on the roster, thus renewing the competition between Larry Bigbie and James Loney for the final spot. Though the Dodgers were light on righty outfielders, there is the risk that Clark, like Dessens, will just take up space without being as productive as one of the guys he replaces on the team.

Trivial note: Clark had as many caught stealings as home runs in 2006 (four) and 2005 (13). He has been hit by 32 pitches in the past two seasons combined.

I didn't quite make it out of the morning without posting again, did I?

Update: Here's the case for Clark. Career platoon splits (OPS, not adjusted):

Clark vs. RHP: .742
Bigbie vs. RHP: .753

Clark vs. LHP: .758
Bigbie vs. LHP: .650

However, Loney could well be better than both of them.

Clark in 2006 vs. RHP: .669
Clark in 2006 vs. LHP: .713

Clark will cost the Dodgers $3.8 million minus the cash they receive for the Brewers.

Update 2: Andrew Grant has finished his National League West predictions at True Blue L.A. He gives the Diamondbacks, Dodgers and Padres "nearly equal shots at taking the division" but leans slightly Arizona-way.

Grant also notes in the comments below that Clark "was horribly unlucky on balls in play last year; if he hit his natural BABIP, he would have hit .299/.374/.371."

Update 3: Tony Jackson reports that the Dodgers will get $2.1 million from the Brewers, evening out the difference between Clark's salary and Dessens' (keep in mind that Dessens' salary was all wrapped up in the Odalis Perez trade).

Comments (343)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-03-26 11:31:05
1.   Bob Timmermann
You just LATed my last two comments!
2007-03-26 11:32:49
2.   Cones88
Brady Clark?? Give Bigbie and Loney a shot.
2007-03-26 11:34:07
3.   blue22
2 - Need a righty. That's what you get for putting together an all-lefty OF (Pierre, Gonzo, Ethier, Marlon, and Loney).
2007-03-26 11:34:31
4.   natepurcell
brady clark is useful. thats more then i can say of valdez.
2007-03-26 11:35:35
5.   regfairfield
2 What does Bigbie bring to the table that Clark doesn't?
2007-03-26 11:35:51
6.   underdog
{rerun from previous thread} I wonder who will come back to bite/haunt who in that first series with the Brewers against their former team? Will Clark homer off of Dessens? Will he be caught stealing with Dessens on the mound? The drama will be so thick you can cut it with a bat.
2007-03-26 11:36:12
7.   underdog
5 He hits with his right hand?
2007-03-26 11:36:54
8.   natepurcell
brady clark walks and gets HBPs alot. his OPS+ the last 3 years

2006: 77
2005: 109
2004: 108

what happened last year?

2007-03-26 11:36:58
9.   Bumsrap
Could it be that the Dodgers just wanted to control where Dessens would go instead of allowing him to become a free agent.
2007-03-26 11:37:20
10.   Bob Timmermann
5
Clark has worked as a waiter before so he knows how to bring things to tables.
2007-03-26 11:37:20
11.   underdog
(that was a rhetorical question; you already knew the answer)

So does this affect Bigbie's status more or Loney's? I guess we'll have to wait and see. I don't think the Dodgers are done dealing, though... just a feeling.

2007-03-26 11:37:41
12.   Jon Weisman
5 - Clark was terrible last year. I didn't follow his season one iota - is there a reason why we should think it's not the sign of real decline?

Bigbie is younger and was hurt, so short of analyzing their platoon stats, I do feel a little better about him. Not to mention Loney.

2007-03-26 11:39:13
13.   Benaiah
5 - Bigbie has a little more power I think, but Clark is a good OBP guy though if his average stays down (.263 last year) then that won't be true. He seems like a useful bench guy, though I wonder how much money the Dodgers will get?
2007-03-26 11:39:37
14.   Cones88
off topic: "Bush met with General Motors Corp. chairman and chief executive Rick Wagoner, Ford Motor Co. chief executive Alan Mulally and DaimlerChrysler AG's Chrysler Group chief executive Tom LaSorda. They discussed Bush's support for flex-fuel vehicles and his administration's proposal to reduce gas consumption by 20 percent in 10 years."
2007-03-26 11:39:45
15.   Bumsrap
There is a rumor in Boston Globe that a trade that includes Kemp and Dontrell Willis is out there.
2007-03-26 11:42:12
16.   underdog
Well this raises the question then - how important is it to make sure you have a right handed hitter mixed in vs. all lefties (in the OF)? If Bigbie is better than Clark, but the former is a lefty, how important is that. Teams seem to think it's pretty critical, to have that guy at least available later in games when the opponent is manuevering its relief pitchers. On the other hand, if the righty in question isn't any good, then what's the point?

On the other other hand, I think Clark is better than that - but maybe not much better. Argh, I wish Repko hadn't hurt himself again.

2007-03-26 11:42:18
17.   Eric Enders
I wonder how much this trade has to do with Loney continuing to look lost in the outfield.
2007-03-26 11:43:28
18.   underdog
15 Yeah we were scoffing at that one here yesterday. Seems pretty ludicrous that the Dodgers would be trying to acquire more starting pitching, and lose an OF prospect, unless there's another deal in the works. Didn't make much sense to me.
2007-03-26 11:43:40
19.   Bob Timmermann
I often have wondered what Tommy Lasorda's views on alternative energy sources is. I'm attending a roundtable discussion with him on hydrogen fuel cell technology.
2007-03-26 11:44:32
20.   natepurcell
brady clark can play all 3 outfield positions righ?
2007-03-26 11:44:57
21.   Jon Weisman
Okay, Clark and Bigbie platoon stats posted above. Clark has been better looking backward - just again wondering about that 2006 season.
2007-03-26 11:45:08
22.   Bob Timmermann
20
Not at the same time.
2007-03-26 11:46:05
23.   regfairfield
12 Clark was horribly unlucky on balls in play last year, if he hit his natural BABIP, he would have hit .299/.374/.371.

Here's Bigbie's last two seasons: .239/.301/.346, .240/.321/.280 (albeit in 25 at bats). If you're going to dock Clark for being terrible last year, you have to dock Bigbie as well.

2007-03-26 11:46:09
24.   Jon Weisman
Rumors fly, and in the meantime, as usual, the guy who was in the rumors at all gets acquired.
2007-03-26 11:46:29
25.   Eric Enders
BP 2007: "We've noted before that Clark's been a pretty decent player despite taking a long while to get his career going, but he failed to live up to even modest expectations in 2006, turning in his worst season as a Brewer. Clark still gets on base enough to be an asset, but he's not getting any younger and his precipitous power drop is worrisome. The Brewers have made it known that they're looking for a center fielder; with Clark set to earn almost $4 million in 2007, the Brewers may have an expensive backup. If he has a hot first half, he could be dealt to play a Chad Curtis role on a contender.
Comparables: Gino Cimoli, Harvey Kuenn, Gary Ward, Jim Piersall."

So I guess they think Clark is going to fracture the Dodgers' clubhouse along religious lines....

2007-03-26 11:47:09
26.   Jon Weisman
23 - I'll dock 'em both, and thanks for the BABIP update. Still, .745 OPS ain't much for an OF, which makes me feel this whole conversation is pretty inconsequential.
2007-03-26 11:49:02
27.   underdog
It's not like he's gonna start. He'll just be a decent righty to have off the bench. There could be worse guys to add to your bench in exchange for Elmer Dessens, is the way I'm looking at it.
2007-03-26 11:49:11
28.   regfairfield
26 True, but I'll take a .374 on base percentage from my fourth outfielder any day.
2007-03-26 11:49:49
29.   natepurcell
i think...this might be good for loney.

the dodgers want to keep loney but with repko out, they need someone who can handle all 3 outfield positions effectively. If they had not traded for clark, bigbie would basically be that person. But since they traded for clark, they dont need bigbie to handle all 3 outfield positions and thus, do not need him because they are keeping loney.

bigbies going to be traded.

2007-03-26 11:50:28
30.   blue22
28 - And plays center. Pierre and Repko are the only CFers on the roster.
2007-03-26 11:50:49
31.   screwballin
Re the previous thread, here's the email address to suggest (or demand!) that DT should be on a list of the 10 best baseball blogs:

tips@sportsmediachallenge.com

2007-03-26 11:51:02
32.   Eric Enders
This seems an overreaction to Repko's injury; then again, it gives us someone on the roster who can play center field besides the Human Out Machine. If this means Pierre gets one day off a week so Clark can face a lefty, sounds good to me. I think the trade works on a number of levels, even if Clark repeats his 2006 numbers. We're talking about a fifth outfielder here, folks; he doesn't need to be Stan Musial.

It would seem to mean, however, that Larry Bigbie had better tell his agent to start calling around. IMO there's absolutely no way Loney's getting left off the roster.

2007-03-26 11:52:04
33.   natepurcell
so basically, the dodgers have 2 days to find a taker for bigbie.
2007-03-26 11:52:17
34.   underdog
14 I wonder if they'll also be be building a more fuel-efficient Lasorda, one that consumes and expels less gas?
2007-03-26 11:52:34
35.   King of the Hobos
24 Actually, Rosenthal mentioned in his last column that the Dodgers could be looking at either Clark or Mench.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/6610312

2007-03-26 11:52:35
36.   screwballin
29 Won't it be tough to get much in return for Bigbie because he can just opt out and sign with any team that wants him?
2007-03-26 11:52:52
37.   Benaiah
23 - How do you figure? Clark's BABIP last year was .299 according to fangraphs, which points to him being about luck neutral. Bigbie only had 300 ABs total in those two years and actually did have a BABIP below his career average for 275 of those ABs. Clark has a different skill set than Bigbie, but going forward I think Bigbie is the better bet, especially for the price.
2007-03-26 11:53:05
38.   natepurcell
what were dessens and clarks zips projections this year?
2007-03-26 11:54:08
39.   Jon Weisman
35 - Fair enough. Score one for the mongers.
2007-03-26 11:54:29
40.   goblue1
If Clark repeats his 2005 numbers he should start over Pierre.

32
agree- no need to worry about Loney in AAA, hes going to be a Dodger.

2007-03-26 11:56:06
41.   natepurcell
pitching staff

lowe
schmidt
wolf
penny
tomko

billingsley
hendrickson
saenez
beimel
broxton
saito

that seems correct.

2007-03-26 11:56:48
42.   regfairfield
37 BABIP is directly correlated with line drive percentage. Expected BABIP is .120+line drive percentage, so Clark should have been at .354, when he hit only .299.
2007-03-26 12:01:12
43.   Benaiah
42 - That is a general rule that shouldn't be applied all that specifically. For example, Clark has a career LD% of 22.9% which would translate to a .350 BABIP, but in reality it is .302. He was right around his career BABIP and posted his lowest batting average ever in a year he had at least 100 ABs.
2007-03-26 12:04:23
44.   regfairfield
43 Where are you getting those numbers from? THT only goes back three years.
2007-03-26 12:05:48
45.   bhsportsguy
Hey Nate:
Have you looked at Akins' numbers recently, I don't think he is looking like someone White would sign but I don't have a real feel for college stats, what do you think?
2007-03-26 12:06:29
46.   underdog
Okay, they obviously miss Bigbie in Baltimore (Bawlmore) and need more pitching, so we package he and Tomko or Hendrickson to the Orioles in exchange for (? -- someone lower than Markakis on the hierarchy). Sorry, I'm proposing more than mongering. Mostly, I'm procrastinating when I should be working.
2007-03-26 12:07:57
47.   Benaiah
44 - fangraphs.com.
2007-03-26 12:09:05
48.   Bob Timmermann
46
If the Orioles need more pitching why are they planning a 13-man staff?
2007-03-26 12:11:19
49.   ToyCannon
Shoot, I'll take Brady Clark as my 4th/5th outfielder and Rudy in the bullpen anyday of the week over Repko/Dessens. Nice deal.
2007-03-26 12:12:43
50.   regfairfield
47 Thanks. Clark's numbers are rather interesting. He's seen his line drive percentage make huge improvements over the last two years but hasn't really benefited at all from it. It's hard to get a read on his career since he rarely played until he joined the Brewers in 2003.

If I had to make a judgment call, I'd just say he got unlucky two years in a row, but I could be wrong.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-03-26 12:12:50
51.   GoBears
32 If this means Pierre gets one day off a week so Clark can face a lefty, sounds good to me.

But does it mean that? My guess is that, barring injury, the Outmaker starts all 162.

2007-03-26 12:13:04
52.   Benaiah
44 - I will admit that I fibbed the numbers ever so slightly since LD% numbers only goes back 5 years, but BABIP can be calculated back to forever. So his LD% is for 5 years, but his BABIP is for his career. Still, I don't think it makes a big difference since the last four years are where he got 90% of his ABs.
2007-03-26 12:15:51
53.   Benaiah
50 - Wasn't there a study done somewhere (I want to say it was Tangotiger, but it could have been hardballtimes) that said that there is very little year to year correlation between LD%. It could be that Clark was lucky to get so many line drives and then unlucky that they didn't turn into more hits. Though he terrible power might also suppress his average.
2007-03-26 12:17:09
54.   Eric Enders
51 I don't think it means Pierre will sit once a week. I do think it means he won't start all 162.
2007-03-26 12:18:04
55.   GoBears
32/51: A more likely (and still unobjectionable) scenario is that Clark gives Gonzales days off against LHP. If Kemp is to be banished to Vegas, that's a good, second-best solution.
2007-03-26 12:21:59
56.   regfairfield
53 They aren't predictive at all for pitcher but there is some year to year correlation for hitters.
2007-03-26 12:23:52
57.   ToyCannon
Yes, I hope Clark gives Gonzo some games off against LHP.

An outfield of Loney/Kemp/D Young with an infield of Abreu / La Roche on games that Greg Miller is starting and Tsao is closing makes the trip to Vegas a must.

2007-03-26 12:24:06
58.   underdog
48 I meant, "better," rather than "more," of course. Gosh, Tomricksonko would be better than Trachsel, imho.
2007-03-26 12:32:30
59.   Eric Enders
57 I'm guessing that will be Tsao holding and Meloan closing. Maybe not, though.
2007-03-26 12:38:04
60.   NPB
Unquestionably a good trade. Filled a small but needed hole with a slightly better than servicable player, and dumped off some extra bullpen wood. Is anyone going to really argue with Saenz, Anderson, Clark, Loney, and Lieberthal? That's a good bench.
2007-03-26 12:38:46
61.   Benaiah
It is mind boggling that Tsao won't make the team. Hendrickson is beyond worthless and Tsao is a fireballer who could have his arm fall off at any minute. Make a trade Ned!
2007-03-26 12:39:22
62.   Bumsrap
Can we now start rumors about Betemit going somewhere, Nomar moving to third, and Loney starting at first and Kemp in right?
2007-03-26 12:45:49
63.   Jon Weisman
Quote in Henson's new LAT article:

"It gives us a very capable player who plays hard, plays all three outfield spots and is a baseball player," said General Manager Ned Colletti, who added that his scouts say Clark "does a lot of things major league average. He's an average hitter."

2007-03-26 12:49:55
64.   blue22
63 - And it wouldn't be a Ned acquisition without this oldie-but-goodie:

"His character and work ethic will only add to the positive atmosphere in the clubhouse."

2007-03-26 12:51:53
65.   Eric Enders
63 Is that a veiled shot at Kemp? (If so, it would be the second one today, after Josh's most recent post at ITD.)
2007-03-26 12:52:41
66.   underdog
Thank God he's a baseball player! Whew. That would have been a bad trade otherwise.

Nothing about his scrappiness stats, though?

2007-03-26 12:57:07
67.   Hythloday
66 - All baseball players are scrappy, but not everybody that plays baseball is a baseball player. Skill has nothing to do with this logic. It's superfluous. It's icing on the cake, that's all.
2007-03-26 12:57:34
68.   Jon Weisman
65 - I don't think so. I think it's just random GM-speak.
2007-03-26 13:02:24
69.   bigcpa
I wondered if Clark "wanted to be a Dodger." Does that criteria only apply to FA's since they're allowed to say stuff like that?
2007-03-26 13:03:50
70.   Bob Timmermann
Clark was born in Oregon and went to college at USD.

He should be off at PETCO and asking for the "San Diego Discount."

2007-03-26 13:03:58
71.   GoBears
After finishing my coffee, this appears to me to be another pointless trade, albeit one that's not obviously harmful in any way (except to McCourt's wallet). Clark is just Repko (not exactly the same player, but exactly the same role). Dessens was unneeded, but also free (KC was paying his salary, right?). So Milwaukee dumps salary and an unneeded player, and gets a free bullpen guy. LA adds salary and a basically unneeded player, again increases the age of the team, and replaces the guy blocking Kemp.

Imagine if this had been yesterday, and a straight Repko for Clark trade, along with a straight release of Dessens. No point. Just older, more expensive, and no upside.

Was there a mention of the length of Clark's contract?

2007-03-26 13:06:13
72.   Eric Enders
71 I don't buy the argument that Repko was blocking Kent, at all. (Unless Kemp aspires to be a fifth outfielder and pinch runner when he grows up.)
2007-03-26 13:06:29
73.   Eric Enders
Kemp, not Kent.
2007-03-26 13:07:01
74.   underdog
I thought Milwaukee is also giving LA cash for this? I don't think it's right to call it "free." Again, I think adding a solid right hand hitting outfielder in exchange for a pitcher we didn't need is not a bad trade. It's not very exciting, but seems relatively sound to me. Still, I assume this means they are sure Kemp isn't ready. (Or that they want him to start full time and won't be doing that yet in LA.)
2007-03-26 13:10:57
75.   blue22
74 - True, KC is paying his salary, but we're still paying Odalis', so LA comes out behind. Milwaukee is most likely paying just enough of Clark's salary to make the two a wash.
2007-03-26 13:19:06
76.   Jon Weisman
I still question the idea that Clark is a "solid" outfielder.
2007-03-26 13:19:08
77.   blue22
71 - Clark's is signed only for '07 (according to www.hardballdollars.com). The money Milwaukee is sending will most likely balance out the difference in salaries.
2007-03-26 13:21:03
78.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
ZiPS and PECOTA forsee nasty numbers from Clark, like a sub-730 OPS.
2007-03-26 13:22:11
79.   thinkblue0
it's situations like these that I wish I could post over Ned's bed a reminder: "Just because you could, doesn't mean you should."

Not an awful trade or anything, but what in the heck does Loney have to do to get a spot around here...

2007-03-26 13:23:04
80.   goblue1
76
Why?
2007-03-26 13:23:34
81.   Sagehen
If one views Clark as simply a placeholder for Kemp or maybe Repko (injury permitting) this year, nasty numbers won't be a bad thing. If Clark plays poorly, he will be released when Kemp or Repko is ready. My greatest fear, though, is that Clark will, well, be average, which will lead to the Dodgers holding onto him even when the player with significantly higher upside (Kemp) is ready.
2007-03-26 13:23:51
82.   El Lay Dave
65 I read right through that bit on the ItD post. [Clark] also hits right-handed which, as you know, none of the other outfielders in camp can do.
Of course, as many pointed out, Matt Kemp is a right-handed hitting OF.

Hopefully Josh had the same mind-slip I did, having already mentally put Kemp in Las Vegas to start the season.

2007-03-26 13:25:21
83.   GoBears
72. All I mean by "blocking Kemp" is that miClark will take starts and ABs that might have gone to Kemp. If they were determined to put Kemp in Las Vegas, then Clark's arrival doesn't really affect Kemp this year, and all Clark will do is take ABs that might have gone (post Repko injury) to Bigbie or Loney.

Obviously, the best-case scenario is that he takes ABs from Pierre, but I doubt that will happen.

How's his defense? Is it possible that when Clark spells Gonzales, he'll play CF, and Pierre's wet noodle arm will move to LF?

2007-03-26 13:25:48
84.   Sagehen
81 Please remove all reference to Repko in that post, since the latest report (Tony Jackson) is that he's out for the season.
2007-03-26 13:28:29
85.   King of the Hobos
The DBacks just traded Jorge Julio and cash to Florida for Yusmeiro Petit. Between Petit, MacLane, Eveland, Enrique and Edgar Gonzalez, and Nippert, Arizona will have a Triple-A rotation that almost rivals Vegas'.
2007-03-26 13:28:45
86.   El Lay Dave
79 I don't think Clark's acquistion has any bearing on Loney. There are three LH starting OFs either way. In my mind, Bigbie's agent is burning up the cellphone towers trying to find a better bench or maybe platoon situation for Bigbie, which doesn't seem to exist here. With the opt-out, Bigbie's ST is essentially a tryout for all of MLB.
2007-03-26 13:31:33
87.   GoBears
Yeah, the treatment of Loney really calls into question the whole "willingness to let young guys take over once they've shown they're ready" company line. Jaffe parroted this in the BP article that someone (ToyCannon?) mentioned earlier today. If Loney isn't busting the door down, I don't know what that looks like.

True, Loney doesn't have the power you'd like from a first baseman. But neither does Nomar. And Loney is still just a kid. With his sweet swing, I imagine the only thing standing in the way of 25 HRs is strength, and that should come as he gets older and finishes filling out, no matter what else happens.

2007-03-26 13:32:09
88.   El Lay Dave
A belated rumination triggered by Sunday's Hendrickson topic.

The cost-to-cut for LuGo is $1.75 million.

2007-03-26 13:33:14
89.   blue22
86 - I agree. I think Loney remains the primary backup to the corner outfield spots (along with firstbase). This was a 5th OFer/backup CFer/RH-platooner acquisition.
2007-03-26 13:37:12
90.   GoBears
The problem as I see it is that Ethier, Loney, and Nomar are all essentially the same player (tho Nomar is RH and injury prone) in the following sense: all are line-drive, high-average hitters with only occasional power, and all are limited to playing positions normally held down by power hitters. Trying to fit all three of them on the field at the same time is tricky.

Of course, this is a problem that was completely avoidable, if Colletti had just let Nomar walk after last season demonstrated that even playing 1b doesn't keep him from getting injured. And if he'd held off on Pierre and let Ethier give CF a try. Really, how bad would he have had to be defensively to cancel out his offensive advantages over Pierre?

2007-03-26 13:38:46
91.   Benaiah
88 - Now that is the sort of thinking I could get behind. Unfortunately, there isn't a chance that it will happen.
2007-03-26 13:39:12
92.   CajunDodger
87
I suspect that Loney will be on the opening day roster. If not, we might as well just trade Kemp, Loney, LaRoche, and Abreu to the Giants for Vizquel, Durham, Roberts, and Aurilia. I am sure they have the intangibles that Ned is looking for.

I am trying to keep the faith with Ned, but it is becoming tougher. I will try to reserve judgment until April 1.

2007-03-26 13:40:04
93.   Jon Weisman
80 - See my post. He was a bit above average hitter in 2004-05, terrible in 2006, playing a position that begs for offense.
2007-03-26 13:50:26
94.   trainwreck
Ned has roster movement ADD. He always has to do something just to do something.
2007-03-26 13:51:42
95.   Jon Weisman
Money update above.
2007-03-26 13:53:04
96.   blue22
94 - I'm confused. Didn't LA's 5th OFer/RH-CFer just go down for the season? So Ned makes a move to replace that position, by jettisoning the 12th pitcher on a 11-man staff, and not taking on any add'l salary?

How is this doing something just to do something?

2007-03-26 13:55:42
97.   trainwreck
I think Matt Kemp could put up an OPS similar to Clark's.
2007-03-26 13:57:15
98.   trainwreck
He could probably put up a better one, in fact.
2007-03-26 13:58:45
99.   katysdad
Injury news on a couple of old friends:

The New York Mets announced today that Duaner Sanchez has been diagnosed with a hairline fracture of the coracoid, a small bone in the front of his right shoulder.The recommended treatment is surgery to secure the fracture with a small screw. Sanchez is expected to be able to resume rehabilitation within 6 to 8 weeks following the surgery and to return to competitive throwing another 6 to 8 weeks thereafter.

And according to MLB.com, Toby Hall suffered a torn labrum in his right shoulder while diving for a ground ball at first base in the ninth inning of Sunday's game against Texas. The injury will most likely cost the catcher his season.

2007-03-26 13:59:33
100.   blue22
97 - That may be so, but I don't feel comfortable giving Clark/Repko's AB's (or lackthereof) to Kemp. I'd prefer Kemp get 30 AB's per week in Vegas, in preparation for an everyday spot on the big league club.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-03-26 14:01:50
101.   bhsportsguy
Brady Clark represents the kind of bench player Ned and Grady prefer, vet guys (Saenz, Anderson, Martinez, Lieberthal and now Clark) who can handle (in their opinion) their playing time situation and still be prepared to produce when given the opportunity.

I agree with that philosophy, there is no point making guys like La Roche or Kemp sit on the bench if they are not going to play everyday.\

Loney is in a different situation, he has been in the organization the longest of all the "prospects" and he was successful at AAA in a full season.

I see the last roster spot coming down between Bigbie and Loney, I think Loney's case got stronger with the acquisition of Clark. Of course if Furcal is not ready, Valdez could get the nod.

2007-03-26 14:02:21
102.   El Lay Dave
I'm a little surprised that Milwaukee (small-market poster child) is footing the entire difference for the LOS ANGELES (#2 market in the U.S.) Dodgers. A $2.1 million sized check mark in Ned's column, I guess.

96 Agreed. This is a good-enough move, if Clark has looked good enough in ST for last year to be considered a fluke, rather than the start of an inexorably downward spiral. Caution, he turns 34 in 3 weeks.

2007-03-26 14:03:03
103.   trainwreck
100
I understand that. Of course, Gonzo was another pointless move to make a move in my opinion. At least sign someone with upside.
2007-03-26 14:03:48
104.   ToyCannon
93
How does a backup CF position beg for offense? How many teams have 4th/5th outfielders who are better then the average OPS for the position? To me he is the perfect backup outfielder. His time in the sun has come and gone so he knows he is a bench player but when he plays he can play solid defense, give you a platoon partner for Lugo on some days, and be a pitch hitter on others, with just enough speed that he can also serve as a pitch runner.
2007-03-26 14:03:50
105.   blue22
103 - I will not argue that point one bit. File it under "what's done is done".
2007-03-26 14:04:28
106.   jasonungar05
A philisophical question:

Do you guys think its better for a 22 year old to play daily in Triple A (even if he hits .500) or to play once or twice a week as late inning defensive replacements, pinch hitting and pinch running with the big club?

2007-03-26 14:04:30
107.   Michael D
I don't know how his CF defense shakes out but we might have just got ourselves a centerfielder just as good if not better than Pierre, for basically nothing. I also realize that last year could very well be the beginning of the end for Clark and he could end up as an NRI next year, but considering the cost difference, I'd be willing to give it a shot.
2007-03-26 14:06:40
108.   Sagehen
103 Players with upside don't generally sign one year contracts unless they're coming off an injury.
2007-03-26 14:06:55
109.   goblue1
93

Yea, I guess im comparing him to Repko/Bigbie/Anderson (ex the super spike we got in sept last year) and he looks about equivalent or better.

Clark would have been the Dodgers best hitter not named Jeff Kent in 2005 (Scary). Didn't do much last year though...
Seems like a pretty good player for a 4th/5th OF.

2007-03-26 14:07:46
110.   trainwreck
In my eyes, Kemp and Loney have already proven they can handle AAA pitching. They need to face MLB pitching now, in order to get better.
2007-03-26 14:10:10
111.   trainwreck
108
I would have taken Jose Guillen (upside) or Delucci (more proven) over Gonzo.
2007-03-26 14:11:20
112.   Sagehen
106 Keep the kid in AAA. There's no sense letting him accumulate major league service time if he's not going to play.

I find myself contradicting that, though, every time I think of Loney.

2007-03-26 14:11:58
113.   trainwreck
When I say Dellucci is more proven, I meant as a more proven player. Not comparing him to Gonzo.
2007-03-26 14:12:47
114.   GoBears
106. Depends. If that question is about Loney, I think he'd be better off in the majors, improving against better pitchers. But that's really a false choice, since there's a 3rd option: starting in the majors. Only dumb roster moves have limited Loney to those two bad options.

If the question is about Kemp, then I can see the argument for AAA, since he hasn't conquered that level yet. But again, I could also see the argument for just giving him the CF job in the majors, and giving the Pierre money to Nancy B. Hefley. Or using it to run a shuttle service to and from downtown.

2007-03-26 14:12:48
115.   trainwreck
Why can't they play? Not like our outfielders are so great that we cannot keep rotating them.
2007-03-26 14:13:23
116.   Jon Weisman
99 - "diving for a ground ball at first base"?

104 - I hear you, though I question whether Clark "knows" he is a bench player, and his caught stealing numbers indicate someone who is a potential danger as a pinch-runner, and if he declines at all from his 2006 performance, I really think he becomes useless. I guess I'd rather see Loney play than worry about platooning Gonzalez. But you're right ... my expectations might be a little high for the role.

2007-03-26 14:14:15
117.   Jon Weisman
99 - meaning, he was playing first base?
2007-03-26 14:14:43
118.   bhsportsguy
106 As always, there is a cost for just having a player on the roster to just PH and play defense.

Sevice time starts clocking anytime a player is on the MLB roster so for guys like Kemp and La Roche, to just sit on the bench and start their arbitration clocks running would not be a sound business decision.

I would think that the Dodgers best case scenario would be for both Kemp and La Roche play in AAA at least until the All-Star Break so that the earliest they would qualify for arbitration would be after the 2010 season.

Loney will be 22 on Opening Day (he turns 23 in May), he has 2 option years left, I think that the decision on Loney will depend on whether or not they project that he will be able to stick with the club the whole year, if he will than I think they will keep him on the roster.

If not, I think they will send him down, knowing that he will probably be the first non-middle infielder or third baseman called up.

2007-03-26 14:16:09
119.   El Lay Dave
Kemp started last year in AA. He has about 200 PAs in AAA, all last year. I'm not against some more regular playing time - both for hitting and for OF work (especially in CF, hint, hint Ned) - in Las Vegas to start the season, but I expect him to be "knocking down the door" by June or so.
2007-03-26 14:16:31
120.   Sagehen
106, 112 Put another way, the optimal time to bring up a prospect would be at age 24. That way, the club has control of him through his prime. During his 6 years on the team, moreover, he is more likely to be a starter with good numbers. Why waste any of those 6 years for the sake of a year or two of bench play?

I would rather have Kemp starting for the Dodgers at age 29 than have Kemp serving as a bench player at age 22.

2007-03-26 14:16:50
121.   blue22
117 - Yeah, he was playing firstbase. And one of the very few times they ran him out there this spring too. Oops.
2007-03-26 14:18:47
122.   Jon Weisman
121 - Maybe we should move Nomar. You know, for safety reasons.
2007-03-26 14:19:16
123.   CajunDodger
106
I like the idea of Loney on the big club as a bench player because if he is blocked now, then he will be blocked until Nomar goes down. What is the use in sending him to AAA? To work on OF fielding skills? He can do that in BP and fielding practice.

Kemp needs more ABs because he is not as polished of a hitter as Loney is.

2007-03-26 14:20:23
124.   El Lay Dave
117 Yes. http://tinyurl.com/2sa2xq
Manager Ozzie Guillen had moved Hall to first base in the seventh inning to replace Eduardo Perez, whose right calf reportedly had begun to tighten again after originally sustaining an injury on March 14.
2007-03-26 14:21:10
125.   bhsportsguy
110 But when would they play.

Really, it is going to take an injury to Nomar and to one of the three projected starting outfielders to make a place for Kemp and Loney to get regular at bats.

That was a done deal back when the deals were made in November and December.

Also Kemp did improve but I am not sure that he has proven that he can hit AAA pitching yet, by the middle of May, he could be swatting the ball all over the PCL and force Ned to revisit the issue, also, I think he could have been a little tired this spring because he played winter ball until the end of 2006.

I think if the Dodgers decide to platoon Betemit with someone like Nomar (still won't believe it until I hear that Nomar is taking groundballs there), then Loney will get more than just 2-3 ABs a week.

2007-03-26 14:21:26
126.   blue22
119 - Plus Kemp's numbers in Vegas were just so...weird. 200 plate appearances with only 3 homeruns and 26 strikeouts? Yet he had 14 doubles and 6 triples and hit .368 (.988 OPS)?

He must've really cut down on his swing to concentrate on breaking pitches; you'd like to see him do it again, but try to drive some pitches over the wall.

2007-03-26 14:21:56
127.   El Lay Dave
122 I'm thinking LF sounds pretty safe. And Nomar seems less likely to try and take out his SS like a ten-pin spare.
2007-03-26 14:24:51
128.   blue22
127 - Or maybe (speaking as a Loney fan) Nomar is in the perfect place at first base :)
2007-03-26 14:25:48
129.   dzzrtRatt
So, in a way, it's Mike Piazza for Brady Clark.

I still don't like it.

2007-03-26 14:25:51
130.   Greg S
Seems to me that Loney could get quite a few at bats on this roster. Between Nomar's aches, pains and rest, playing some outfield and pinch hitting, he could get enough ABs to justify having him on the big team now.
2007-03-26 14:26:55
131.   trainwreck
125
I think we can rotate the outfielders. Sit Ethier or Pierre or Gonzo every game. Sit Nomar every few games.

At least let one of them get some playing time on the MLB roster.

2007-03-26 14:27:46
132.   bhsportsguy
BTW, not to defend myself but I am huge supporter of the kids, it would have been a lot of fun if Loney had been given the job to lose this year (I am not the only one here who thought they saw Nomar's last AB as a Dodger in his pinch-hitting appearance against the Mets in Game 3)but circumstances prevented that.

I hope that Kemp, La Roche, Abreu, Miller and the rest start off by having a great April in Vegas and really show everyone that they belong up in L.A.

2007-03-26 14:30:21
133.   Greg S
I've only seen a few of Kemp's at bats this spring but it sure looked like the same guy from last year in terms of bailing out on curve balls. Until that changes, he'll never reach his obvious potential.
2007-03-26 14:31:12
134.   trainwreck
133
Yeah, Kemp no matter where he plays does not seem to get any better at that.
2007-03-26 14:31:58
135.   El Lay Dave
Rats. I'll be in Vegas in early April, but the 51s open on the road.
2007-03-26 14:33:00
136.   blue22
131 - Sit Ethier or Pierre or Gonzo every game.

I don't think that's realistic. And if it were, I bet Ethier gets the short end more than the other two (in the first few months anyway), so what are we accomplishing?

2007-03-26 14:34:18
137.   blue22
133/134 - see my 126. It appears he did something last year in Vegas, because his numbers across the board were different than anything else he's done in his career.
2007-03-26 14:34:39
138.   El Lay Dave
131 Did you not mean, "Sit Ethier, or Pierre AND Gonzo every game."? Punctuation and conjunctions are everything.
2007-03-26 14:35:58
139.   trainwreck
Well yeah, most of what we say here does not seem to have a realistic chance of happening. It is much like Nate's suggestion of Billinglsey and Kuo splitting starts. Makes sense to me, but we have no input.
2007-03-26 14:36:05
140.   El Lay Dave
136 LuGo is OLD. He needs rest. Between him and Nomar, Loney could see significant action right there. (Too bad LuGo isn't old and right-handed.)
2007-03-26 14:37:58
141.   El Lay Dave
139 To be fair to the powers-that-be, most, not all, of us here are amateurs and we're not staking our jobs / careers on these suggestions.

That's not to say they aren't good/better suggestions....

2007-03-26 14:37:59
142.   Greg S
137 I question whether the difference wasn't him but the pitching and scouting difference at those two levels. His numbers, as you said, were actually way down in terms of power. That may be a sign that he was going with the pitch more but all you have to do it watch him to see that he's not yet doing what he needs to do.
2007-03-26 14:44:14
143.   blue22
142 - He was still hitting for power (a .560 slg% while hitting a homerun every 3 weeks means he's driving the ball pretty well) just not clearing the fence.

It was his drastic decrease in strikeouts that leads me to believe he was handling the breaking pitch better. He may not be doing it this ST, and he definitely wasn't doing it in LA last year, but there was something different in his approach after being demoted.

Just more reason why he needs to be playing every day (in Vegas).

2007-03-26 14:45:57
144.   trainwreck
141
Very true.

I think it also speaks to the idea of hiring non-baseball guys, because they are willing to take more risks and be unconventional.

2007-03-26 14:48:00
145.   Greg S
143 I agree. In the question of "Should young guns play every day at AAA or play a spot role in the bigs", Loney is an example of one answer and Kemp the other.
2007-03-26 14:48:16
146.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Back to Clark, what's the word on his defense? In 2005, BPro scored him as 11 runs above average.
Thinking about it, it seems Ned didn't just get a player to replace Repko - he got the most Repko-like player available. Right-handed, can play center field, lousy bat.
Interesting.
2007-03-26 14:49:33
147.   trainwreck
143
Think it is possible that it just speaks to how much better the pitching in the majors are compared to AAA?
2007-03-26 14:50:42
148.   trainwreck
*is
2007-03-26 14:53:05
149.   GoBears
132 but circumstances prevented that.

No they didn't. Unless if by "circumstances" you mean "knee-jerk reaction to Drew's opt-out by Colletti."

I like Nomar. And if really were going to play some 3b or LF to get Loney 50-60 starts, I'd like him even more.

But no team needs Nomar, Loney, AND Ethier unless they're getting power from odd places (2b, CF, SS) to supplement all those singles and doubles. With Kent in decline, Kemp in Vegas, and Furcal's top end probably around 15 HRs, I think THAT'S why the roster is filled with people like Gonzales (he hit 50 once!), Clark (he used to hit HRs - in Milwaukee!), Anderson (he freaked out last September!) and Saenz (best SLG on the team!).

The last thing I'd worry about as a Dodger GM is wasting pre-arby years for top prospects. If they can waste money on all these overpaid short-term veterans, they can afford to pony up for the studs a little earlier than they might have to otherwise. If this were Cleveland or Oakland or some other small market, I could see the logic of not wasting prospects' service time on the ML bench, but not in LA. Sure, most of these stop-gaps are not given long contracts, but each one-yr deal costs money now in order to save money (by putting off free agency for prospects) later.

2007-03-26 15:00:38
150.   jasonungar05
Thanks guy for the answers. It's easy to talk best case which for some means go with the kids instead of veteran A. But now that were in late March and those vets will be playing barring injury I was wondering what everyone thought would be best. I opt with young players playing daily and having veterans on the bench.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-03-26 15:13:19
151.   trainwreck
I have cable and I am still wondering when I will know if I can get Extra Innings or not. Anyone have any info? I know In Demand made an offer, but they needed to change some things.
2007-03-26 15:19:06
152.   ToyCannon
146
I don't think Repko's best season will come close to the OBP that Clark puts up. Repko may have been fast but he wasn't a good CF.
2007-03-26 15:24:27
153.   blue22
146 - Repko's most positive defensive quality is his arm. That seems to be a weak point for Clark (though he may look like Dwight Evans compared to the rest of LA's OF).
2007-03-26 15:27:32
154.   Eric Enders
151 On April 1, you will know if that snowball has defied all odds and reached hell.
2007-03-26 15:28:23
155.   trainwreck
154
LAME. Ugh, no Dodgers for me.
2007-03-26 15:32:51
156.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
153 - Didn't some off-season study say Ethier had a good arm?
2007-03-26 15:35:29
157.   blue22
155 - I switched to DirecTV (fortunately, I just moved so I got to make the decision, but the EI package made it a no-brainer) and I'm sure I'll even shell out for the HD upgrade.
2007-03-26 15:39:40
158.   trainwreck
157
Until I move and get my own place, I will not be able to get DirecTV. Unless I can somehow convince my mom to switch.
2007-03-26 15:44:00
159.   bhsportsguy
157 Here is the latest, I am sure Bob will be doing play by play of the hearing on The Griddle tomorrow.

"The U.S. Senate Commerce Committee holds a hearing tomorrow [March 27, 2007] looking into Major League Baseball's deal with DirecTV for its Extra Innings out-of-market games package. The hearing will be chaired by Sen. John Kerry (D-Mass.), whose complaint to the FCC about DirecTV getting an exclusive on Extra Innings, pushed MLB to (reluctantly) extend the package to its other incumbents, Dish Network and In Demand, which is owned by Comcast, Time Warner and Cox."

http://tinyurl.com/2sjoo3

2007-03-26 15:47:10
160.   blue22
158 - Until I move and get my own place,

Looks like you've solved your problem. :)

2007-03-26 15:57:15
161.   underdog
This was Gurnick's piece on the Clark-Dessens trade, btw, in case anyone missed it:
http://tinyurl.com/yuqv2a

---
Sad for Toby Hall.

2007-03-26 16:12:02
162.   Bob Timmermann
159
Those hearings promise to be:
1) boring
2) poinltess
2007-03-26 16:16:34
163.   Greg Brock
Brady Clark is a lot older than I thought he was.
2007-03-26 16:17:34
164.   JoeyP
Getting Clark for Dessens isnt bad, but I didnt realize Clark made like 4 mils bucks.

Seems like a salary dump by the Brewers.

Does Rudy Seanez make the team then?

2007-03-26 16:19:05
165.   underdog
Joey - read above - the Brewers gave the Dodgers money to even it out, so the money was equalized.

The thinking is that Seanez is the favorite, yes, with Tsao an outside shot (though he's more likely to be in Vegas).

2007-03-26 16:23:52
166.   das411
Now now before everybody flies off the handle re: Brady Clark, keep in mind he was Time Magazine's 2006 Person of the Year...

120 - Bingo. Furthermore:

"I would rather have [Loney] starting for the Dodgers at age 29 than have [Loney] serving as a bench player at age 22."

Not to open up a whole 'nother can of worms here but how is this any different than if, oh Idunno, Paul DePodesta had made a move like this, bringing in, say, Jason Phillips to give Russ Martin (and even Dioner Navarro) some more development time?

2007-03-26 16:27:26
167.   natepurcell
wow, penny just threw a nasty split, got the K and his arm didnt fall off in the process. The trifecta!
2007-03-26 16:29:52
168.   JoeyP
I'm not even sure if Jason Phillips was a target. He was coming of a decent season and the team really wanted to get rid of Kaz Ishii.
2007-03-26 16:34:26
169.   JoeyP
The Mets are playing their starters.
Good test for Penny.
2007-03-26 16:37:23
170.   regfairfield
166 Navarro or Martin didn't hit .380 in AAA.
2007-03-26 16:38:51
171.   underdog
How is Julio Franco still playing? He was playing when I was a freshman in high school, and probably when some of you were in diapers. Amazing.
2007-03-26 16:40:41
172.   underdog
And he just singled in a run off Penny. Nice.
2007-03-26 16:41:33
173.   thinkblue0
Paul DePodesta had made a move like this, bringing in, say, Jason Phillips to give Russ Martin (and even Dioner Navarro) some more development time?

I think the difference here is that Martin wasn't a unanimous choice as far as being ready. I think just about everyone will agree that Loney really should have the shot to play every day. He's torn up AAA, had a good Spring, there really is no reason for him to be rotting on the bench...now with Nomar, Kent, and Gonzo we have to assume he'll get AB's...but why the heck not just not sign Gonzo and make the job his to lose? Doesn't make much sense to me...

2007-03-26 16:42:49
174.   underdog
Valentin just doubled in a run off Penny and then was thrown out at 3rd by Valdez.

Penny's looking shaky here in the 2nd. Should we be worried about him at this point, or wait 'til April to worry?

2007-03-26 16:43:38
175.   Gen3Blue
I haven't had time to read all the comments on this, but my reaction is that it's a good move to trade ave. pitching, for ave. outfielding, where we have a shortage. However if we put this clown in front of Bigbie or Loney, they will truley have a cause for bitterness. As long as Loney>Bigbie>Clark this makes sense. Otherwise, this istupidity of a high degree.
Loney's one of our own who has done great. Bigbie is an invite who has done great! Clark is who? As long as Clark goes gracefully to the minors---it is fine.
2007-03-26 16:44:39
176.   underdog
173 Because Gonzo is a LF and Loney is a first baseman?

Not trying to be flip, and I know the Dodgers have been giving Loney some training in the OF late last year and this Spring, but he's obviously a natural first baseman and an unnatural outfielder. Now you could say the Dodgers shouldn't have signed Gonzo for other reasons...

2007-03-26 16:45:56
177.   underdog
And Penny just walked Glavine. SHEESH.
2007-03-26 16:46:53
178.   Gen3Blue
Glavines working on a no hitter. I trust this breaks no DT rules as Glavine is not expected to get more than 6 innings!
2007-03-26 16:48:03
179.   natepurcell
although the score says differently, i think he is pitching really well. All his pitches show great life and movement but the ump is really giving it hard to penny. alot of close pitches being called balls.
2007-03-26 16:48:26
180.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
177 - Over/under for Billingsley's first start? I'll say early May.
2007-03-26 16:49:05
181.   natepurcell
Penny looks healthy, this ump sucks.
2007-03-26 16:50:09
182.   goblue1
Now Rayes...walks... Penny is really bad.
2007-03-26 16:50:21
183.   underdog
179 Yeah, that's what the (Mets) radio announcers said - or said Honeycutt was saying when he just went to the mound. They were thinking the pitches were indeed balls, but they're Mets announcers. I'm just listening to it so I can't judge what he actually looks like.

So Hendy, Bills, Saito and Hamulack will pitch for LA today, too.

2007-03-26 16:50:57
184.   natepurcell
nasty split to K wright looking. wow. if he can be healthy and throw that pitch consistently, hes going to have a schmidt like breakout (when he went to the giants).
2007-03-26 16:51:03
185.   underdog
So he struck out Wright and got out of it with the 2 runs. Could've been worse. Sounds like his control wasn't that bad.
2007-03-26 16:51:08
186.   Gen3Blue
MLB live BOX is so far behind I think we are playing Cleveland.
2007-03-26 16:51:42
187.   still bevens
Yeah I think the most encouraging thing about Penny's outing is that he's thrown more than 1 pitch in the game. 4 in fact.
2007-03-26 16:51:42
188.   natepurcell
182

the mets tv announcers are horrible. they are bagging on penny every chance they get. they even brought up the lo duca/penny trade and bagged on that.

2007-03-26 16:52:34
189.   natepurcell
it looks like hes scrapped the change and gone with the split. it looks really good. his curve looks good today too.
2007-03-26 16:52:42
190.   underdog
186 Does it have Saenz pitching or Seanez? ;-)
2007-03-26 16:53:06
191.   Gen3Blue
Don't worry friends, it's still tied 0-0
2007-03-26 16:53:32
192.   GoBears
A bad ump is probably good practice for Penny. He's had a bit of a temper problem in the past. Maybe Grady asked the ump to squeeze him.
2007-03-26 16:53:58
193.   thinkblue0
Not trying to be flip, and I know the Dodgers have been giving Loney some training in the OF late last year and this Spring, but he's obviously a natural first baseman and an unnatural outfielder.

true, if it was up to me we'd have worked Nomar into LF so Loney can play first base. But, let's say we did give loney the LF job...is his defense THAT bad to the point where it's going to cost us game after game? Probably not. Also, the fact that he's bound to spend time on the DL means that Loney will probably get a good amount of time out there anyways...so why not go with it and see what happens? We know his offense is solid, no reason he couldn't pull LF together enough to not be a complete liability.

2007-03-26 16:54:32
194.   Jon Weisman
178 - I'll let the rule slide in this case, but pitching changes do not affect #9.
2007-03-26 16:54:37
195.   natepurcell
192

i was trying to get a read on pennys demeanor with all these close calls and he seems to be pretty calm so far.

2007-03-26 16:56:29
196.   regfairfield
So fire is bad now?
2007-03-26 16:56:35
197.   still bevens
194 Penny just got a base hit so no need to worry.
2007-03-26 16:56:45
198.   goblue1
188

Seems like its always someone elses fault with Penny. He walked the pitcher. 'Nuff said. He really needs to get his act together this year, and hopefully fast. Penny, not Juan Pierre, believe it or not is one of the guys who make or break this team. ...Now penny is at the plate mouthing off to the ump... ngh.

2007-03-26 16:57:26
199.   natepurcell
196

theres a difference between showing fire and going ballistic.

2007-03-26 16:57:42
200.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
196 - Bread good!
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-03-26 16:58:31
201.   Gen3Blue
We are still ahead at MLB.com
By the way--if you are American in the Kitchen,---and youare Ameican in the livingroom,--- what are you in the bathroom.-----

Europian!!!!!!!!! Badaaboom!

2007-03-26 16:58:36
202.   natepurcell
198

i never said it wasnt his fault. but regardless of the score, his stuff looks good today. thats all im trying to convey to the people reading this blog who are not able to watch the game.

2007-03-26 16:58:39
203.   trainwreck
I would hope Penny is not getting upset in a spring training game.
2007-03-26 17:00:40
204.   Eric Enders
Penny seems like the kind of guy who would get upset playing RBI Baseball 2.
2007-03-26 17:00:48
205.   blue22
175 - Clark is less a "clown" than Bigbie, IMO. Bigbie has one good partial season on his resume (.285 eqa in 83 games with Baltimore in 2003). At least Clark has eqa'd above .270 as a fulltime player in 2 of the last 3 seasons.

Bigbie will go somewhere else and continue to be a replacement-level player.

2007-03-26 17:03:43
206.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
205 - Thanks for raising a good point, in why are people so excited that a journeyman OF is having a hot March?
If I were Ned, I'd be madly trying to flip Bigbie because this is probably as valuable as he'll ever be.
2007-03-26 17:04:14
207.   Gen3Blue
I'm more afraid Bigbie won't goe anywhere else, and as a lefty will cause use to insult Loney.
2007-03-26 17:04:16
208.   Gen3Blue
I'm more afraid Bigbie won't goe anywhere else, and as a lefty will cause use to insult Loney.
2007-03-26 17:05:14
209.   Gen3Blue
Use =us sorry.
2007-03-26 17:09:04
210.   underdog
Wow, even the Mets radio announcers (who are better than their TV guys) are wondering about having Nomar play 3rd and Loney first to give the latter more playing time. "I really like Loney," said one of them. "Have Betemit be a utility guy."
2007-03-26 17:10:31
211.   underdog
Glavine's turning the D's into the K's today. Making them look silly.
2007-03-26 17:12:02
212.   trainwreck
210
Wow lol
2007-03-26 17:13:37
213.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
I know Nomar once played shortstop, but that was a while ago. I'm wary that his glove can handle the 1B->3B move along the defensive spectrum.
2007-03-26 17:14:50
214.   Gen3Blue
I'm happy to here that Penny has good stuff today, and it probably says good thing about his arm. But the problem is 4 bb/2so which makes me think of late last year when he would have 80 pitches in th fouth inning.
I hope he can do something about that. At least he is the only guy who can hit Glavine.
2007-03-26 17:16:22
215.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
FWIW, Nomar's last full season as a shortstop was 2003. He's played 105 games there since.
2007-03-26 17:16:31
216.   Eric Enders
213 A while = a year and a half.
(Not that I am advocating such a move.)
2007-03-26 17:17:18
217.   thinkblue0
214-

True..Penny does have pitch count problems but I don't think it's anything to worry about at this point. still spring, gotta have a chance to work out the kinks.

But I agree, my biggest complaint with Penny is simply working too many deep counts.

2007-03-26 17:19:15
218.   Eric Enders
Beautiful DP by Valdez.
2007-03-26 17:20:53
219.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
216 - Seems like a while.
2007-03-26 17:27:39
220.   Jacob L
So how long before we reacquire Dessens?
2007-03-26 17:27:51
221.   Gen3Blue
217 Surveying my spelling and typing in the last few posts, I think I'll withdraw for everyones good. But I can't help observing that damn J. Valentins killing us again, when he couldn't do us much good when he was here. I think he drew most of a years salary injured? Thats baseball!
2007-03-26 17:28:51
222.   underdog
Valdez just doubled home Ethier, who had doubled prior. At least they've figured out a way to hit Glavine finally.
2007-03-26 17:30:20
223.   Andrew Shimmin
Grits has talked about giving Nomar the Drew treatment this year; Loney should get enough playing time to offset the service clock costs. Even if he doesn't get as much as he should.

Grits' first priority this year has to be getting as much as he can out of Kent, without letting that automatic 2008 option vest. Moving Nomar around would have been a good way to do it, while also getting Loney his time. Too bad.

2007-03-26 17:31:53
224.   underdog
Saenz just hit one over Alou's head, who misjudged it, played it about as well as Felipe Alou would have. Valdez scored.
2007-03-26 17:33:07
225.   underdog
Why on Earth wouldn't the Dodgers pinch run for Saenz in spring training? Not enough people on the bench tonight?
2007-03-26 17:33:49
226.   underdog
(But he did score on a hit by Abreu, bless his big ol' Tomato legs)
2007-03-26 17:33:52
227.   natepurcell
abreu looks good at the plate. he needs to learn better pitch recogniion though.
2007-03-26 17:35:37
228.   Eric Enders
223 I don't see much wrong with letting Kent's option vest. If he's healthy enough for it to happen, I don't see why we wouldn't want him for 2008. He hits whenever he's healthy. And you'd be counting on Abreu to take over at 2B in '08 with probably little more than a September callup's worth of experience.
2007-03-26 17:36:24
229.   Eric Enders
Billingsley, Penny, and Saenz all look a little trimmer than last year.
2007-03-26 17:38:55
230.   natepurcell
wow, nasty slider to K beltran.
2007-03-26 17:39:27
231.   Eric Enders
I didn't know about the new MLB rules this year that the Mets announcers are discussing.

"A fielder may reach into but not step into a dugout to make a catch."

That one's gonna have some divergent interpretations and cause a few arguments, I would think.

2007-03-26 17:40:23
232.   natepurcell
fastball around 91-94 so far. mostly 93-94 to beltran and alou.
2007-03-26 17:41:36
233.   underdog
Alou just doubled (Off of Billingsley, who sounds like he's otherwise looked good so far.)
2007-03-26 17:42:48
234.   KAYVMON
There is no issue in this trade regarding Kemp. Kemp should stay in the minors until he dominates it, like Loney did, and we should bring him up only to start. Its what makes financial sense and is completely logical. Even if Kemp is a slightly better player right now than Clark.
The main issue is from earlier in the offseason and is that the GM should have been direct in making Loney a starter. This signing of free agents in every conceivable starting position Loney can play is bad for Loney, bad for other prospects, bad for the Dodgers this year and for their future. I understand that Loney will get ABs even as a non-starter and Grady will probably start him over LuGo before the June gloom has faded from our beaches, but it is a bad message for the organization, especially since it is coming from the top.
2007-03-26 17:43:40
235.   natepurcell
Kemp should stay in the minors until he dominates it, like Loney did

you can say kemp did dominate AAA last year much like loney did.

2007-03-26 17:44:58
236.   Andrew Shimmin
228- Even if they decide to bring him back (which could be good for exactly the reasons you give), it's worth two million bucks to use the team option, instead of the automatic one. I'm a reactionary about forty year olds, especially given as bad as his glove looked last year, but that's my hang up, I guess. PECOTA likes him through next year, so, that's something.
2007-03-26 17:53:17
237.   El Lay Dave
235 Smaller sample size, about 200 PAs to Loney's about 400. (Funny, I thought Loney had a little more AAA experience.)
2007-03-26 17:53:56
238.   natepurcell
237

people should also factor in his 2006 AA numbers.

2007-03-26 17:55:23
239.   natepurcell
that backdoor cutters to left handers is absolutely money for billz.
2007-03-26 18:13:26
240.   El Lay Dave
237 Kemp had about 225 (very good)PAs in AA last year (.327 / .402 / .528 / 930 OPS ), his only AA experience. So he has about 425 (very good) PAs beyond A+ ball, but is visibly less polished a hitter than Loney who played two full years in AA. It's not a no-brainer that Kemp is ready; he may well not be.
2007-03-26 18:14:48
241.   El Lay Dave
239 Billingsley will be fantastic as our fifth starter, giving us the strongest NL West, and possibly NL, rotation.....ah,...er,......
2007-03-26 18:15:30
242.   natepurcell
mets announcer on valdez:

thats a play big leaguers should make.

HEAR THAT COLLETTI?

2007-03-26 18:26:20
243.   Izzy
On the subject of Loney in RF, or left for that matter, the balls have been flying all around him. He will cost us games in the o.f.. But, he would improve, eventually. He does have a decent arm, which surprised me some, although I have seen him play numerous times, I never noticed it. I was able to spend 9 days in Vero, and pretty much think Kemp needs to stay down for a bit, and NG needs to go to 3rd, starting tomorrow. I don't know what the heck Grady is thinking. Loney can flat out hit, everything up the middle or opposite field. Kent's bat is still in the garage, next to his dirt bike. Ethier has a gun. They only ran on him one time, y no mas. He also has the prettiest swing of any Dodger, in my opinion. They ran on JP, as we all kind of figured. He really seemed to be trying to go deep into the counts and get a few more walks. If he can do that, we will all be smiling. He is always the first one on the field, and the first one in the batting cage. That's a good sign:)
2007-03-26 18:28:46
244.   Sagehen
243 Re: Loney's arm. Loney was a pitcher/firstbaseman before the Dodgers drafted him. In fact, most teams considered drafting him as a pitcher. If Loney is in L.A.'s outfield, he will be the best arm out there.
2007-03-26 18:29:43
245.   Izzy
Valdez.....needs to be traded. If possible.
2007-03-26 18:35:22
246.   natepurcell
KEMP!@!!!!
2007-03-26 18:35:42
247.   bhsportsguy
Park hangs a breaking ball and Matt Kemp says thank you.
2007-03-26 18:36:24
248.   Eric Enders
Matt Kemp says, "curveball, schmurveball."
2007-03-26 18:36:33
249.   natepurcell
Kemp crushes a park 2-2 curveball. that ball went bye bye really quickly.
2007-03-26 18:36:42
250.   bhsportsguy
Now some could debate whether Chan Ho is still considered a MLB pitcher.
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-03-26 18:46:08
251.   natepurcell
mark hendrickson is pitching stupid.
2007-03-26 18:50:03
252.   Eric Enders
I'd move the word "pitching" to the beginning of that sentence.
2007-03-26 18:54:22
253.   Eric Enders
Apparently Ivan DeJesus is following in the footsteps of the immortal Jaime Navarro. Navarro always insisted on being called "JAY-mee" instead of "HI-meh." DeJesus wants to be called EYE-van and not ee-VON.

Eric Chavez could not be reached for comment.

2007-03-26 18:58:19
254.   natepurcell
bunt grady, bunt!
2007-03-26 19:02:17
255.   Eric Enders
I hope this is an AAA ump behind home plate. That is one screwy strike zone.
2007-03-26 19:04:38
256.   StolenMonkey86
239 - Yay! Rick Honeycutt helped somebody!
2007-03-26 19:06:52
257.   El Lay Dave
256 Did he hand Billingsley a tack?
2007-03-26 19:11:18
258.   El Lay Dave
I don't think anyone doubted Kemp could tattoo a mistake. Nice work. (Not that taking Chan Ho Park deep is an unusual event - 202 career HRs allowed in 1746 IP.)
2007-03-26 19:14:43
259.   natepurcell
258

i would assume that the majority of homeruns hit are due to mistakes by the pitcher.

2007-03-26 19:17:16
260.   Gen3Blue
Kemp flashes some power.
Oh dear--you have a couple of Dodgers, beloved by the true fans, and you have a couple of journeymen having good springs, all in the same outfield. The Dodger guys have higher ceilings, but the other guys are veterans. Do you keep Bigbie and Clark, or Loney and Kemp. Well, at least you can probably get away with demoting Kemp. How can you disguise the other move? Tough being a pol.
2007-03-26 19:19:03
261.   El Lay Dave
Some mistakes are bigger than others. Easier to whack a hanging 76 m.p.h. curve than a slightly misplaced 92 m.p.h. fastball, but point taken.
2007-03-26 19:26:33
262.   Eric Enders
Again, I don't really buy that Kemp can't hit the curveball. Clearly, he has hit many curveballs for home runs. Those were mistake curveballs, to be sure -- but so is every curveball that is smashed by any hitter. A good curveball is not generally hit, it is resisted by a smart hitter. So I think what Kemp really needs to learn has nothing at all to do with hitting curveballs and more to do with laying off the good curveballs. Even Barry Bonds can't hit those.
2007-03-26 19:30:22
263.   underdog
This is off subject and not real important but I was delighted to hear just now that Joe Theismann is off Monday Night Football (Ron Jaworski is replacing him). Now they just need to get rid of Kornheiser and I can actually watch those games with sound on again.
2007-03-26 19:50:10
264.   twerp
A tidbit from Dodgers.com==

"Dodgers legend Sandy Koufax worked briefly in the bullpen area with Brett Tomko Sunday."

Maybe something will rub off, through osmosis, maybe. Be interesting to listen in.

Any exposure to Koufax couldn't hurt.

2007-03-26 20:00:17
265.   GoBears
Maybe Tomko will start throwing left-handed.
2007-03-26 20:02:30
266.   Gen3Blue
I almost said something about management I would probably regret.
2007-03-26 20:11:21
267.   trainwreck
266
Like something positive ; )
2007-03-26 20:20:01
268.   Gen3Blue
267 That would have done it also.
2007-03-26 20:36:28
269.   dzzrtRatt
Faintest praise ever.

Ned Colletti on Brady Clark: "He's a baseball player."

He goes on to say he's an "outfielder" and a right hander.

Clark's parents must be so proud!

2007-03-26 21:15:54
270.   natepurcell
so far, billingsley has a 11:4 k/bb ratio this spring which is a step in the right direction.
2007-03-26 21:46:23
271.   Andrew Shimmin
I don't know enough about origami (or photoshop) to know if these are real, but they are neat.

http://www.financialhack.com/?page_id=27

2007-03-26 21:58:27
272.   Greg Brock
Dollar Bill Yoda and Dollar Bill Guitarist are my favorites.

The cat is just insane. Folding paper!

2007-03-26 21:58:36
273.   underdog
Ah well.
http://tinyurl.com/2ck3vw
(This isn't confirmed it should be noted:)

"First baseman James Loney and third baseman Andy La Roche are projected as the corner infielders of the future for the Dodgers, but they might be the corner outfielders of the present at triple-A Las Vegas.

Barring a last-minute change of heart by the front office, Loney and La Roche will return to the minors, team sources said. Although the primary reason is that veterans are standing in their way, they might as well try to become proficient outfielders while waiting their turn."

I wish the season would start already so we could stop fretting about it, gnashing our teeth, predicting, debating, and just get on with it. ;-)

2007-03-26 22:01:41
274.   underdog
That's gonna be a helluva team in Vegas, even more so when Kuo comes back to rehab for a bit. The OF won't be the greatest defensively, at least at first, but sure will hit.
2007-03-26 22:02:21
275.   JoeyP
LaRoche is really going to play the OF at Vegas?

Ned must love Betemit..I see no reason why LaRoche would be playing the OF down there. If anything, he should either be playing 3rd or 2nd base. 2nd base I'd prefer, since LaRoche's bat would fit better there and bc Jeff Kent is really old.

2007-03-26 22:07:04
276.   JoeyP
""I came here to work hard to help the team win and I can't do that in Las Vegas," he said.

Careful James...the Dodgers dont take kindly to their prospects mouthing off...

Didnt Kemp, LaRoche, and Guzman mysteriously develop "attitude" problems after commenting about their situations..?

One's been shipped out already. (Guzman)
The other is in the doghouse. (LaRoche)
Kemp's being dangled for Dontrelle Willis...(hopefully just a rumor).

Careful James..

2007-03-26 22:20:06
277.   Greg Brock
If I was in James Loney's situation, I would be pretty darn livid. I don't think anybody could begrudge him for being frustrated.

Well, not anybody except Ned Colletti, whom I officially loathe. Or Grady, the man who appears to have consumed the veteran leadership Kool-Aide.

2007-03-26 22:20:45
278.   Andrew Shimmin
Loney should try stealing bases. Even if he's no good at it, maybe that'd win Flanders' fickle heart.
2007-03-26 22:21:41
279.   trainwreck
Why ruin good defensive players my making them play somewhere else exclusively. Very frustrating. Think long-term for once. One season does not mean everything.
2007-03-26 22:24:19
280.   natepurcell
someone needs to convey to colletti that sending loney back to the minors is a stupid move. who honestly cares about wilson valdez or larry bigbie?
2007-03-26 22:27:41
281.   King of the Hobos
Young needs to play too. I really doubt Laroche and Loney will the OF regularly in Vegas, assuming they are both sent to Vegas to start the season. Maybe a system where Kemp and Young each play a position, and Laroche/Loney alternate at the third spot, but I don't think they'll play there regularly. I would expect Larry Barnes, Choo Freeman, or Mitch Jones to play the OF just as much OF as Loney or Laroche.

My guess is that the regular Vegas lineup will be something like Stinnett/Ellis/Huckaby C, Loney 1B, Abreu 2B, Valdez/Hu SS, Laroche 3B, Young LF, Kemp RF, Freeman CF.

2007-03-26 22:30:23
282.   Greg Brock
This is like when Alcindor's freshman team beat the National Champion Varsity team. I would almost take our minor league lineup over our major league lineup.

Kemp, La Roche, Loney, Young, Abreu...or
Pierre, Betemit, Nomar, Kent, Ethier...

2007-03-26 22:36:35
283.   JoeyP
The Loney thing will be rationalized as "We love James...He's got a great future in LA..We just think he needs everyday at bats..blah blah blah..."

I can also understand the Dodgers playing Nomar over Loney. I may not agree with it, but I understand why an old school baseball GM would want that.

I dont understand the infatuation with Wilson Betemit however, and the seemingly disdain or low confidence in Andy LaRoche...?

CanuckFan was worried that when the Dodgers dealt for Betemit, that it meant they might be down on LaRoche. I think he was right.

2007-03-26 22:46:22
284.   LAT
271. I know the rose is real. Two seasons ago a woman sitting in front of us at Dodger Stadium made two of them for my daughters. We still have one of them. In a sign of things to come, the younger daughter unfolded hers and spent it before we left DS.
2007-03-26 22:49:18
285.   Eric Enders
If I were Loney I would request a trade, immediately. He's done everything a player can do to win a job and yet he has been jerked around by this team at every conceivable opportunity. He should be outraged. I know I am.

I repeat, from the last thread:
.380 avg in AAA
.901 OPS in MLB
.750 avg in MLB playoffs
.440 avg in spring training

You can't really do better than that. If that report is true, the Dodgers should be ashamed of themselves.

2007-03-26 22:52:11
286.   Eric Enders
It's really similar to the way the Phillies jerked Ryan Howard around for three years. I'm sure they're happy now about letting him spend his mid-twenties prime in Triple A.
2007-03-26 22:52:54
287.   Greg Brock
I knew I shouldn't have given up effigy burning for Lent.
2007-03-26 22:53:43
288.   D4P
I came here to work hard to help the team win

Liar! You're young: you only care about your stats.

If I were Loney I would request a trade, immediately

Me too. And to grease the wheel, I would either refuse to suit up at AAA, or I would suit up but refuse to play at AAA, or I would suit up and play at AAA, but play poorly on purpose.

2007-03-26 22:55:10
289.   Sushirabbit
Anyone have a ty file of the 07 Preview that was on the other night? (just ignore that question if you don't know what a ty file is)

Betemit ... well we'll get to see won't we? And as previously noted, keeping young guys with a future off the clock is a good thing.

2007-03-26 22:57:44
290.   regfairfield
If Loney isn't going to play, I'd rather he not run up his service time. At this very moment, there's not too much differentiating him from Sean Casey. While I have no problem paying Casey the league minimum, I'd have issues if Loney sits on the bench for the next two years, he hits arbitration, and he becomes a five to six million dollar player.

Since Loney needs to develop power to truly become a player worth hanging onto long term, AAA is probably the best place for him until Nomar gets hurt.

2007-03-26 22:59:31
291.   Sushirabbit
But I'm with you, EE, on Loney. I felt sure he was going to be in this year. If he's not, it's crazy. I really think Nomar is as bad at first as Loney is in the outfield.... well, OK, maybe the difference between Loney over Nomar is the same as Gonzo over Loney.
2007-03-26 23:00:18
292.   Eric Enders
And we thought Kevin Malone was a dumbass...
2007-03-26 23:00:24
293.   King of the Hobos
286 I'm not sure Ryan Howard is a very good example. He only had 321 ABs in AAA (over 2 seasons) and 374 in AA. He just progressed one level a year after being drafted at age 21 out of college. Loney however has 366 ABs in AAA and 899 AB in AA, far more than Howard had at either level, both while at a much younger age due to being a high school draftee and moving up the system quicker.
2007-03-26 23:02:07
294.   King of the Hobos
293 Also, Jim Thome is a lot better than Nomar, and had a larger salary than Nomar.
2007-03-26 23:02:30
295.   natepurcell
If Loney isn't going to play, I'd rather he not run up his service time.

how many ABs would be acceptable for him to justify one year of service time? working him in two starts a week at 1b, a start in LF and maybe a start in right field, hes going to pile up the ABs.

2007-03-26 23:03:16
296.   trainwreck
Serious question:

Are you rooting for the team to fail, so that the prospects will get their chance?

2007-03-26 23:04:13
297.   Eric Enders
Well, I guess there are always things you can improve on in Triple A. He could work on hitting .480 instead of .380. Or he could take up pitching again. Or learn to fly. Or discover a cure for AIDS, unless Schmoll's already done that.
2007-03-26 23:05:06
298.   regfairfield
296 No, because I don't think our guys get play time unless someone gets hurt.
2007-03-26 23:05:24
299.   Greg Brock
296 I did last year, when the team went in the dumper. Then they made that huge run to make the playoffs, which might have done more harm than good.

This year, I'm just a big bowl of disappointed.

2007-03-26 23:07:47
300.   trainwreck
Can we start a petition to show the front office that Dodger fans do not mind the growing pains of going with a young team.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-03-26 23:08:25
301.   regfairfield
295 If he got that, I'd be happy.
2007-03-26 23:09:58
302.   trainwreck
That girl in the RGX body spray commercials is very attractive.

Okay, back to the angry and disappointed talk.

2007-03-26 23:16:09
303.   bhsportsguy
296 Easy answer, nope.
2007-03-26 23:26:28
304.   Eric Enders
Before I head off to Colletti's house with a copy of "The Catcher in the Rye" in my pocket, here's an amusing excerpt from tonight's Plaschke:
--------

"I don't care about UCLA's tradition," said Walter Hodge, a backup guard on the Florida basketball team. "I don't know anything about it."

He was asked if he had heard of a coach named John Wooden.

"I don't know, and I don't care," he said.

He paused.

"Is he that old dude?"

2007-03-26 23:27:53
305.   trainwreck
oh my go. They are remaking Teen Wolf.
2007-03-26 23:28:14
306.   trainwreck
Oh my god.
2007-03-26 23:29:41
307.   trainwreck
304
The way he answered that question makes me think he must be a quality young man and also a good student.
2007-03-26 23:30:45
308.   JoeyP
With the Dodgers deep pockets, service time shouldnt be an issue.

If they are interested in winning, they are obligated to put the best 25 guys on the roster.

2007-03-26 23:34:00
309.   JoeyP
Florida has all the right to talk smack..they are the defending champions and easily handled UCLA last year.

This year should be a closer game.

2007-03-26 23:39:32
310.   bhsportsguy
300 This is not the D-Backs where after 2001, they have basically played horrible baseball, attendance has dropped and after the disaster of signings like Russ Ortiz, they have gone back to the drawing board.

Sure they have a lot of young hot prospects but that alone is not going to put people in those seats.

All of baseball talked about the Marlins last year playing and winning with those rookies last year but in the end what did it get them, a manager fired, horrible attendance and they still have the same issues of revenue and bad stadium as they did before.

I have been watching this team for 35 years and L.A. is not a place where rebuilding is tolerated. I think their shot to do that was 2005 but unfortunately the kids were not ready yet.

You cannot send out Schmidt, Lowe, Wolf and Penny and have a rookies playing behind them. That's close to $50M in salary on the mound, they are going to want guys out there for the most part that have played the game for a while.

You can work one or maybe two in a course of year but short of major injuries, its best if you can keep your regulars playing most of the time.

I am not saying that you stack your team with a bunch of old guys, only Nomar, Kent and Gonzalez are on the older side while Pierre and Furcal are not old nor young, and Martin, Ethier and Betemit are young.

This spring has basically turned out the way I envisioned it, sure maybe Billingsley or Kuo would get the 5th spot but I never expected any of the young guys to break into the starting lineup.

And I have said that I believe its a bad idea to keep prospects up here just to sit.

Vegas is only an hour away and I don't think it will be too long before the call goes out there. But for now, I just hope for no more injuries and a safe journey back to L.A.

2007-03-26 23:42:34
311.   Bob Timmermann
Arizona won the NL West in 2002. They started to crater in 2003 when Johnson and Schilling got hurt.

Then 2004 happened.

2007-03-26 23:45:12
312.   Bob Timmermann
And despite my nitpick in 311, I tend to think that 310 has a lot of merit.
2007-03-26 23:48:47
313.   trainwreck
310
I just meant in general. Meaning I would not have minded if we did not sign Garciappara and etc. LA fans have issues if they cannot wait a whole year after so many years of no playoffs.
2007-03-26 23:52:48
314.   trainwreck
I also do not think we would have been terrible if Loney, La Roche, Kemp, and Billingsley were going to start the year as starters.
2007-03-26 23:55:58
315.   Vaudeville Villain
310-

The Florida analogy is not useful. Florida will not draw fans, no matter what. They've had a great deal of success, it's just not a very good baseball area, apparently.

I think a more useful analogy is a team with comparable resources. For example: The Los Angeles Angels of Anaheim Not Actually Situated In Los Angeles But Hey We Might Fool Somebody.

They let go of an overrated by the media guy like Adam Kennedy go in favor of playing the obviously ready Howie Kendrick (something we could not do with Loney v. Garciaparra), and have actually hemorrhaged overrated/useless players the last few years aside from Garret Anderson. (I'm thinking of Darin Erstad, David Eckstein, Bengie Molina, etc.)

I don't think their drawing power has been or will be effected, and their fan-base is similar to the Dodgers fan-base, at least one would think.

Even the New York Yankees have a better recent history with developing a young player than we do. Remember when they realized that Tony Womack/Bernie Williams were old and useless? They stuck Robinson Cano in there and let the kid play, warts and all. (I believe he got off to a very slow start initially, but came around late.)

This idea that big-market teams have fans that are afraid of watching young players is something I've never understood. It's not like the veterans we have brought in are exactly big names, aside from Garciaparra. People aren't going to be breaking down the doors at Dodger management because LuGo or Wolf aren't getting enough playing time.

2007-03-26 23:59:51
316.   Bob Timmermann
And yet many in the local media still think that the Angels would be better off with Erstad, Eckstein, and Molina the Elder.
2007-03-27 00:03:55
317.   Andrew Shimmin
There's nothing wrong with it, in theory. It's just when, in practice, you send Kemp to LV and play four guys who aren't as good as he is, instead, then what are you getting out of it? When the rookies are better than the vets, what's the point of burying them? I understand not wanting to let players grow into their spots on a team that's trying to compete, but that's really not the situation, here.
2007-03-27 00:17:15
318.   Vaudeville Villain
316-

I understand that, but it seems not to have effected the bottom line though, right? I mean, The Angels have been drawing the same number of people, with or without those guys.

My point is that fans of a major market team will support their team no matter who's playing.

Even in Depo's second year, when the Dodgers were awful, they still drew a huge amount of fans.

2007-03-27 00:42:28
319.   Louis in SF
Just had that wonderful experience of watching the direct TV taping of the game and then coming to the 9th inning climax, and then having the sign come on asking me if I want to keep the tape or erase, game went over the 3hour mark....I haven't been able to watch that many games, but Hendrickson looks terrible and handled that inning like a pitcher who was not pleased with his role. Gonzo looks every day of his 40th year and what hurts so much is if you would have said to Kemp, here is left field and give one player the ability to learn on the job. Instead are best two young players are being sent down to Triple A, where the benefit to them is limited... As a side note to the Dodgers I don't think Loney will ever hit much more than 25 homers, but his defense and stroke will more than make up for the power he lacks, so sending him down to Triple A will do even less for him than Kemp.
2007-03-27 05:47:23
320.   goblue1
This thread should be called Prospect Thoughts. I don't get it. Im a Dodger fan. Not a Prospect fan.
We all want a home grown team. But I for one will not swear off the team, Ned, Grady, or anyone else if James Loney spends 4 more weeks in AAA. I really couldn't care less if he spends even 5 or even 6 weeks there. In fact, maybe he should remain there till he gains a little more power? And if he tanks his play (as mentioned previously in this blog) I don't ever want him to be a Dodger. I don't consider sending a 22 year old to AAA an insult, or outrage. Its... baseball. Major League Baseball. Logan and Ned have done a great job finding and holding onto talent, now lets let them integrate it as they see fit.
2007-03-27 06:13:47
321.   Greg Brock
I wouldn't give Ned Colletti credit for finding young talent. Logan White has been the scouting director through three GM's now, and he runs the drafts. Not Ned. Logan White has as free a hand as a Scouting Director can have when it comes to the draft.

And as far as holding on to talent, Edwin Jackson, Joel Guzman, Chuck Tiffany, and Dioner Navarro may have lost stock as prospects, but those prospects netted us all of Mark Hendrickson, Toby Hall, and three months of Julio Lugo. Not the best GM work there.

By all accounts, James Loney is ready. The kid has done everything asked of him, produced magnificently at every level, and should start. If his lack of power is a concern for some people, well, I guess the entire Dodgers lineup should be fired or demoted. We're not exactly running Murderer's Row out there right now.

2007-03-27 06:18:58
322.   goblue1
321
We also get a pick in this years draft (#30 something). Still not great trades, but untill Jackson, Guzman, Tiffany, or Navaro do ANYTHING it cant be considered bad work either.

Loney will be just fine, and he will get his hacks this year.

2007-03-27 06:55:53
323.   Benaiah
322 - Yes it can. Lugo was a cipher, bad in the club house and terrible on the field, picking him up actively hurt the Dodgers. Hendrickson and Hall were both mediocre to terrible, and both have expressed dissatisfaction with their roles. These trades were net negatives just for the salaries involved. We are already in the red and Edwin Jackson is about to be in the Tampa Bay rotation throwing to Navarro, who was better than Hall. Guzman meanwhile is a high risk, high reward player and maybe he won't turn out, but the Dodgers gave him up for less than nothing, because Ned can't sit on his hands. It is very bad work, already and it looks to get worse.
2007-03-27 06:57:31
324.   Benaiah
322 - As for the pick, I love Logan White and I believe he'll do great things with that pick, but you are still talking about a player that might help the team in 4-5 years, versus a prospect who could be on the time right now.
2007-03-27 07:36:48
325.   goblue1
323

I won't miss Navarros flabby body missing pass balls and then after the game saying "no one could have caught that, it was a fastball when I called for a curve" That guy will be DFAd by year end- if he is so great we can pick him up. Might get a shot at the rest of those guys too.... lets see...

This is sorta beating a dead horse, and of course hind sight is 20:20. We got Lugo when he was crushing the ball and we didn't know how long Kent would be out for.... Clearly (now we know) we didn't NEED to do that.

Anyhow, Go Blue!

6 more days!

2007-03-27 07:44:07
326.   Greg Brock
The NBC affiliate in Lexington says that Billy Donovan will be named the Kentucky coach after Florida's last game in the tournament.

Ummm...Wow.

2007-03-27 08:04:44
327.   JoeyP
325--You should always caution over acquiring players that are having career seasons, bc its not likely they'll keep it up over the entire year.

I dont think people here want to see the prospects play just bc they are prospects. I think they want to see them play bc they are better players than the guys currently on the team.

Trading Loney/LaRoche for Miguel Cabrera--thats acceptable. I doubt many here would complain about that.

Trading Guzman for Julio Lugo---there'll be complaints.

Playing Loney/LaRoche at the big league level instead of Bigbie/Wilson Valdez--thats acceptable.

Putting Loney/Kemp/LaRoche in the minors, in order to play mediocre vets---not acceptable.

326---I'm not surprised. But I wonder if this will motivate Florida, or deflate them?

2007-03-27 08:14:32
328.   kegtron
I hope the Lonely talk is just the FO trying to get another GM to bite on a trade for Bigbie since he won't be available for free.
2007-03-27 08:20:27
329.   Benaiah
326 - Why? I mean, he won the national title last year and might win another one this year. He has a better program than Kentucky. Why leave?
2007-03-27 08:29:12
330.   Bumsrap
Since it ain't over 'till its over I hope Kemp is allowed to stay on the team and start through the Freeway series and somehow do his homerun thing to the tune of making the team.

Otherwise the Dodgers will be more like the Oscars where the great ones are in the restrooms and in their place are chair fillers.

If Loney becomes a better outfielder at AAA does that mean he replaces Gonzo? If Kemp destroys AAA does that mean he replaces Pierre?

Bite the bullet now. Put Loney at first. Nomar at third, Kemp in right, Ethier in left. Trade Betemit and Hendrickson and Anderson for prospects.

2007-03-27 08:31:58
331.   kegtron
328. *Loney
2007-03-27 08:49:51
332.   still bevens
Are a lot of the posters animosity towards this whole Loney situation rooted in the Dodger's rich tradition of trading away players who turn out to make us look like complete fools when they set the world on fire for another team?
2007-03-27 08:57:02
333.   Daniel Zappala
I may be unusual, but as a fan I would much rather root for a team with homegrown prospects than one filled with players acquired elsewhere. Even if the players were otherwise equivalent, I'd prefer the prospect that has been in the organization since he was drafted. I'm much more excited by Loney, LaRoche, and Abreu than Pierre, Kent, and Schmidt. Ethier ranks above Gonzalez because we at least got him when he was relatively young and unproven. I far prefer watching Billingsley to Wolf. I would rather LaRoche becomes our own Cabrera. It is just more exciting to me to see the young players come up through the organization and do well. Anyone else is just filler in case we don't have someone from the minors that is ready to step in to a particular position.
2007-03-27 09:13:25
334.   underdog
The SF Chronicle is spreading wishful rumors that the Giants could make a play for A-Rod after the season. Seems possible, though I don't think they could afford him, Bonds and Zito...
--
I'm still happy we have Nomar back, but wish he could play third so Loney could indeed start. I still hold out hope Loney makes the team over Bigbie, but if he doesn't won't panic about it. Given what happened last year, I fully expect the kids to be on the team before too long. I think it's smarter having Kemp start in AAA, despite his frustrations about it, but Loney should be on the big club, period.
2007-03-27 09:25:54
335.   Eric Enders
Homegrown players are nice, but mostly I just care if the Dodgers win. You win by putting your 25 best players on the roster regardless of age, salary, or previous service time with the Giants or Red Sox.

James Loney has lit the world on fire with his bat everywhere he has played for the last 20 months, including AAA, the MLB playoffs, the Arizona Fall League, spring training, you name it. He has proved beyond any reasonable doubt that not only is he one of the 25 best players on the team, but probably one of the 8 or 10 best.

I'm all for leaving guys at AAA if there is some area of their development that can benefit by them playing there. By all means, send Andy LaRoche and Matt Kemp down. Send Greg Miller and John Meloan down. But sending Loney down is an inexcusable decision that calls into question Colletti's basic competence as a baseball executive. You have three to six players in your lineup who are demonstrably worse hitters than Loney (LuGo, Pierre, Betemit, arguably Nomar, Ethier, and Martin). You have a first baseman who has offered to change positions to accommodate Loney. Take him up on the offer. Or if not, give Loney 300 ABs as a frequent fill-in at first base and the outfield.

This is not about coddling prospects and fielding a team composed of incompetent young players. Such suggestions miss the point entirely. This is about fielding the best team you possibly can. Unless Loney is on the roster, you're not doing that.

2007-03-27 09:31:07
336.   Eric Enders
Re Donovan, I basically took it for granted two months ago that he'd be in Kentucky next year. The suggestion that Florida has a better basketball program than Kentucky is silly. The only thing they have that's better than Kentucky is four specific players, none of whom will remain on the roster next year. Both Florida and Kentucky may find themselves in the NIT next year. But over the long haul Kentucky is by far the better job, although it's like being manager of the Yankees in that you had better win, and win big, or you'll be gone.

The far more interesting question is who will take Donovan's place at Florida.

2007-03-27 09:40:32
337.   blue22
336 - Very true. Florida wasn't any good before Donovan, and won't be any good after this year.

And Kentucky made the tournament every year Tubby was there (10 consecutive), winning the title in '98, and they still couldn't wait to run him out of town. Donovan will no doubt improve the program, and is a popular choice based on his recent success and strong ties to UK and Pitino. But if he doesn't do better than Tubby (a lofty goal in itself), they'll want his head on a platter before long too.

2007-03-27 09:46:41
338.   Jon Weisman
New post coming up top.
2007-03-27 09:50:39
339.   blue22
336 - The far more interesting question is who will take Donovan's place at Florida.

Steve Lavin's available - and he kinda looks like Billy Donovan... :)

2007-03-27 09:53:28
340.   PHilldodger
335 Thank you for encapsulating my feelings on the management of Loney. The decision-making process of the Dodgers that puts Larry Bigbie on the roster and Loney at AAA scares me a great deal. As does the thinking that puts Billingsley in the bullpen and Tomko in the rotation.
2007-03-27 09:56:06
341.   Bumsrap
My 25 Dodgers:

Furcal, Kemp, Loney, Garciapara, Kent, Ethier, Martin, Pierre

Leiberthal, Saenz, Gonzo, Bigbie, Clark, Martinez

Schmidt, Lowe, Penny, Wolf, Tomko

Billingsley, Tsao, Seanez, Biemel, Broxton, Saito

First callups: Greg Miller, Jon Meloan, Brazabon

Traded away: Betemit, Hendrickson, Anderson,

2007-03-27 10:04:18
342.   blue22
341 - A third baseman would be nice (I'm assuming you have Nomar there, but I don't believe that's really an option). Ramon Martinez get an awful lot of playing time on your team.
2007-03-27 18:37:40
343.   D4P
To help change the subject:

A. Perez: 309/391/491
M. Bradley: 395/511/684
A. Ethier: 304/360/348

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