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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

We Will Forgive!
2007-12-06 16:45
by Jon Weisman

To Ned Colletti:

We, the undersigned, extend this olive branch in the hopes of freeing you from the burden of Juan Pierre.

Perhaps you still don't see that Pierre's skills fail to justify his position in the starting lineup for a contending baseball team. In fact, even factoring in his baserunning, he stands to be one of the weakest left fielders in the major leagues offensively. And defensively, his speed is less relevant than ever with the arrival of Andruw Jones in center field.

But perhaps you have come to fully understand Pierre's flaws, yet are imprisoned by embarrassment. The Jones signing itself is enough to draw attention to the shortcomings of Pierre and the ill-advised contract he received. Perhaps you don't wish to court further indignation from some quarters of the press who would mock you for eating most of his contract in a trade or allowing new manager Joe Torre to bench him.

We, the undersigned, are here to tell you not to feel any shame. No shame! We will support and defend and praise any effort you make to rectify the Pierre mistake. We all make mistakes. We are not too proud to forgive.

We understand that Pierre is a nice guy and very fast. We are not demanding his release. Fourth outfielder status is a reasonable compromise. Everybody wins. Including, most importantly, the Dodgers.

We, the undersigned, ask you to accept that Juan Pierre should not start for the Dodgers this season.


Jon Weisman

and those that follow

Comments (372)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2007-12-06 08:43:37
1.   Erin
Erin W.

2007-12-06 08:46:01
2.   D4P
The Trade In Which The Dodgers Aquired Delino DeShields In Exchange For Pedro Martinez
2007-12-06 08:46:27
3.   ryu
2007-12-06 08:48:08
4.   Bob Timmermann
I cannot agree to these sentiments expressed with that font.
2007-12-06 08:49:26
5.   StolenMonkey86
The marching instrument which was not obtained via purchase which is about as musical as a Beasie Boys song, played by the gentleman born in 1986.
2007-12-06 08:50:00
6.   StolenMonkey86
I happen to like the font so I'll comment again.
2007-12-06 08:50:11
7.   Terry A
I have a high fever this morning, so I may be misreading that last sentence. But it appears to ask Colletti to not accept that Pierre should not start. (Also, there's a "to" v. "too" issue in the third graf from the bottom.)

Fever and all, I stand ready to forgive Colletti so he can admit the Pierre Mistake.

2007-12-06 08:50:40
8.   Daniel Zappala
We are not to proud to forgive.

to = too.

Otherwise, I agree and do hereby forthwith thusly sign.

2007-12-06 08:50:59
9.   al bundy
I'm in. Peggy and the kids too.

Thank you Jon, for leading the way.

2007-12-06 08:51:31
10.   Inside Baseball
2007-12-06 08:51:40
11.   Penarol1916
2. Oh look everyone, it is the guy who cannot tell the difference between a commonly understood acronym and one that is obscure.
2007-12-06 08:51:43
12.   Daniel Zappala
Terry A gets added to my copy editing team.
2007-12-06 08:51:52
13.   Sam DC
I'm in. DC is all about claiming victory and moving on!
2007-12-06 08:52:16
14.   Robert Daeley
This will turn into the 1776 musical, mark my words.
2007-12-06 08:53:07
15.   madmac
I am having problems with this statement. "We, the undersigned, ask you not to accept that Juan Pierre should not start for the Dodgers this season."

I think one less not and we are good.

2007-12-06 08:55:13
16.   madmac
7 Glad I wasn't the only one.
2007-12-06 08:55:21
17.   Bob Timmermann
Who's going to play Cesar Rodney? You know, the old sick guy from Delaware who comes in to cast a crucial vote.
2007-12-06 08:56:06
18.   LogikReader

LogikReader (with care)

2007-12-06 08:56:50
19.   GobiasIndustries
which is about as musical as a Beasie Boys song

If you are attempting to bash the Beastie Boys for not being musical, I hate to tell you that you have no idea what you're talking about.
The "Check Your Head" album marked the Beasties return to actually playing their instruments rather than relying on sampling full time. Every album after CYH has featured the Beasties playing instruments. And depending on musical your musical ear, all are actually above average musicians.

2007-12-06 08:58:47
20.   underdog
Underdog and Sweet Polly Purebred are signed and ready to forgive!

(Is that font called "Pierre"?)

2007-12-06 09:00:58
21.   Kevin Lewis
I believe this will one day be a historical document, marking the beginning of a Dodger dynasty.
2007-12-06 09:02:44
22.   ImprobableImpossible
2007-12-06 09:02:51
23.   Branch Rickey
We understand that Pierre is a nice guy and very fast.

That literally made me laugh out loud. Funny stuff.

2007-12-06 09:03:21
24.   Jon Weisman
I wonder if Thomas Paine got edited this carefully.
2007-12-06 09:03:51
25.   Kevin Lewis
Should we all just print this out and send it in to Ned?
2007-12-06 09:03:54
26.   capdodger
13 It's just a mater of what "victory" is. That said, this would be a victory by any metric, benchmark, or measure.
2007-12-06 09:04:01
27.   GobiasIndustries
Tom Haudricourt of the Milwaukee Brewers blog is having quite the war of words with an annoying poster. Here is a sample of Haudricourt's latest response to this guy:


To "Cauleys:

You were dead on about Sheets and LA? Then you must not have seen my blog this morning in which Doug Melvin says the Dodgers never asked about Sheets.

You are wrong on so many things I don't have time to address them. It is sad just how wrong you are but when you take every rumor as gospel, that's what you get.

As far as telling me what my primary job as a reporter is, you're a joke. My primary job is not circulation and selling papers. My primary job is integrity and reporting the facts correctly. Any journalist would tell you that. It shows just how little you know about my job. As a matter of fact, every time you post a comment it shows how little you know about my job. You say you're a respected, successful businessman. Well, you certainly didn't get that by spreading the garbage you've been spreading. And you must be retired now because you apparently have 24 hours a day to read nonsensical reports and post comments. You post about 50 comments a day. When exactly are you working at this successful job? As for the prospect you keep asking me to identify in the Rolen talks, who the hell said one name in particular was discussed? I certainly didn't. But your "sources" know all. You are the expert. I know nothing. I've been a reporter for 31 years. What the heck do I know about journalism, compared to you, the master?*

For the whole thing go here:

2007-12-06 09:04:25
28.   Kevin Lewis

If it is going to stand the test of time, it needs to be perfect.

2007-12-06 09:06:22
29.   Bob Timmermann
He looks flawless!

2007-12-06 09:06:35
30.   Sagehen
Signed, Debbie B.

And may I add: please oh please oh please: Keep Ethier(my favorite Dodger) and Kemp (who stings the ball so much that he is a joy to watch in a way I haven't felt since Piazza)

2007-12-06 09:06:55
31.   capdodger
24 Nope. They had yet to agree on such basick things as spelling.
2007-12-06 09:08:31
32.   Johnson
J. Johnson signed here
2007-12-06 09:09:04
33.   Ken Noe
24 These are the times that try Dodger fans' souls: The summer Dodger Dog comsumer and the sunshine beach ball bouncer will, in this crisis, shrink from the service of their team; but the GM that stands it now, deserves the love and thanks of man and woman. The NL West, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder it will be for you to sit Pierre, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value.
2007-12-06 09:09:22
34.   Vishal
i'm so on board with this petition.

-Vishal, true blue dodger fan since his age 6 season

2007-12-06 09:09:44
35.   CanuckDodger
The Dodgers brought in a new center fielder because they realized they made a mistake bringing in Pierre as their center fielder, and their way of correcting that mistake is not going to entail making Pierre their LEFT fielder. Oh, I FEAR that, because I expect bad things to happen to me, but being strictly rational for a moment, there's no reason to worry. Pierre is as much a left fielder as he is a rhinoceros -- that is to say, not one at all. We know it, and the Dodgers do too. Pierre is going to be traded.
2007-12-06 09:09:58
36.   mattkempisgod27
i agree with this 100%
2007-12-06 09:10:45
37.   chumsferd
Am I only allowed to sign this once?
2007-12-06 09:11:22
38.   BlueGremlin
I'll sign in my own blood if it convinces Colletti.
2007-12-06 09:11:44
39.   Kevin Lewis

I really appreciate the layout of our comments section after reading that.

2007-12-06 09:13:21
40.   blue22
Here here! Or hear hear! - MD

By my count, there are a number of teams still looking for a CFer: Texas, Atlanta, Chicago (AL), Minnesota, SD, and possibly Philly (Victorino and Werth are possibilities), Milwaukee (Bill Hall again?), and StL (Edmonds is risky, Rasmus is not ready).

With only Cameron and Rowand still available, I can see a number of those teams willing to play Pierre (for the right price).

2007-12-06 09:14:02
41.   greenchris
Please keep the kids and trade Pierre. Greenchris.
2007-12-06 09:15:27
42.   Landonkk
Well said, Jon.
2007-12-06 09:16:18
43.   Chris H
2007-12-06 09:16:35
44.   Dark Horse
Signed, somebody please deliver this to the open ears of Mr. Colletti...
2007-12-06 09:17:20
45.   jasonungar07
Love the post Jon...I'll sign the petition.

this from ITD:

Some key points from his talk with the media:

He said that this doesn't necessarily mean we'll have to move an outfielder and he likes the depth it creates in the outfield. He also said it allows us to be more focused in our quest for pitching.

He also said this makes him a little bit more comfortable about the in-house options at third base. If something comes up that is a really great option, we would do it, but pitching is the greater priority.

Ned reached out to Juan Pierre last night to talk about how this affects him, but wasn't able to reach him. And when asked if he regrets signing Pierre, he said he absolutely does not. He can't re-write history, but he implored everyone to look back at the circumstances that we were in when we signed him (only one outfielder with more than a month of experience in the Majors - Ethier). He pointed out that Juan did exactly what we expected him to do and that he has never said that Juan was a franchise player. He's a very good player on a winning team and the reason we didn't win last year was not Juan Pierre's fault.

2007-12-06 09:17:56
46.   standuptriple
Ha! I just this morning suggested "The Pierre Mistake" as a fantasy team name for Dodger fans in '08. Poppa Joe will fall victim to Pierre's grittiness (aka "belly full of guts", or as it was known at Bronx Banter BFOG+) in the tradition of Bubba Crosby and Migual Cairo. Good luck Dodger fans. At least you'll get to beat up on the Giants in '08.
2007-12-06 09:18:38
47.   Humma Kavula
Signing the petition:

Humma Kavula
Bride of Kavula
Spawn of Kavula

2007-12-06 09:19:24
48.   Sam DC
Nationals signed Aaron Boone to a one-year deal. This by an extremely righthanded team after taking a righthanded rule five infielder today?
2007-12-06 09:19:57
49.   paranoidandroid

The often paranoid Bruce Galler and family

P.S. If you trade Mr. Pierre, I will gladly present you with my Slappy McPop-up t-shirt to hang in your office.

2007-12-06 09:19:57
50.   LeeLacy
"To err is human; to forgive, divine."

And with that, I add my name to this noble cause.

Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2007-12-06 09:20:22
51.   ToyCannon
I cannot agree to such a letter. Someone must stand up for the little speedy guys with no baseball skills or they will become a thing of the past.

To the consternation of all, Juan Pierre will now lead the Dodgers to the World Championship from LF. Much like David Eckstein who wears two rings as the unlikeliest SS in the 21st century, Juan Pierre will be wearing two rings in the 21st century. First as a starting CF and secondly as a LF. Years from now baseball historians will note that the Podboy and Pierre rewrote the expectations for left fielders as they led their respective teams to the World Championship within a few years of each other, even as their own fans heaped ridicule on their derringer like guns. Being fleet of foot was the only skill that was decipherable as they both had an arm that would have even embarrassed Rudy Law, plate discipline that didn't exist, and power that only manifested itself in postseason. These two denizens of the left field tundra had something that couldn't be measured by algorithms or scouts. They had IT and that is all they needed.

2007-12-06 09:20:24
52.   still bevens
45 I will agree that our mediocre record isn't Pierre's fault. Its Wolf, Schmidt and Elbert going down. Simple as that.

Granted I would prefer Pierre was not on our team, but what are you gonna do?

2007-12-06 09:21:53
53.   bigcpa
Rosenthal not exactly aiding the cause:

Matt Kemp and Andre Ethier could platoon in right, if Kemp is not traded... The next step for the Dodgers, if they are smart, would be to trade Kemp."

2007-12-06 09:22:05
54.   Eric Stephen
At first Ned was afraid, he was petrified
Kept thinking he could never live without Juan by his side
But then he saw so many fans
That knew having Juan was wrong
Throws were not strong
And so Juan's back
Without a place
Ned called Josh in to change the media guide and take out Juan's face
Juan "got on base an awful lot"
Ned should have not said that to me
If Ned've read DT for one second he'd never have signed JP
Go on now Ned, walk out the door
Go tell Juan that
He's not a starter anymore
Wasn't Ned the one who tried to hurt us with Tomko
But did we crumble? Did we simply refuse to live?
Oh no, not us...we will forgive!
2007-12-06 09:22:25
55.   DodgerBlueBruce
Give Me Kemp-Jones-Ethier or Give Me Death.
2007-12-06 09:22:51
56.   larry slimfast
I agree, undersign and advocate. I also feel that Pierre actually has value as a 4th outfielder, his salary aside.
2007-12-06 09:23:11
57.   weatherman
2007-12-06 09:25:21
58.   Ken Noe
45 If signing Jones means keeping LaRoche, it was worth it.

53 Did Rosenthal get anything right in Nashville? Anything?

2007-12-06 09:30:06
59.   bigcpa
58 He feels vindicated that his advice was taken on "not making Torre our only offseason acquisition." There's almost a Plaschke tone to his latest entry with the one sentence paragraph I-told-you-so opener.
2007-12-06 09:30:34
60.   Jon Weisman
4 - The font looks different on my home and work computers.
2007-12-06 09:31:16
61.   GMac In The 909
Here's my Herbie Hancock:

~GMac In The 909

P.S. Please keep both Ethier and Kemp with the Dodgers and in the starting lineup.

P.P.S. Give LaRoche every opportunity to win the third base job (with the Dodgers).

2007-12-06 09:31:25
62.   blue22
58 - What about if signing Jones means trading Pierre and LaRoche for Rolen?
2007-12-06 09:31:43
63.   D4P
Has Andruw ever publicly reported that he was injured in 2007?
2007-12-06 09:31:56
64.   Disabled List
*I'm DL, and I approve this message.*

Now, let's print out 94 more of these and nail them on the front door to Dodger Stadium.

2007-12-06 09:31:56
65.   Improbable88
2007-12-06 09:32:12
66.   still bevens
Assuming we keep all of our OF's, is Torre capable of juggling multiple outfielders in multiple positions? From what I read he likes a set lineup so there might not be alot of fancy platooning going on (Ethier/Jones, Pierre/Kemp, Pierre/Jones, etc etc). Unless its a strict platoon of Ethier/Kemp which would be depressing.
2007-12-06 09:33:36
67.   Hythloday
58 He ordered some ribs at dinner. Those were good. The coleslaw? Not so much.
2007-12-06 09:35:32
68.   Disabled List
54 was awesome, btw. Well done.
2007-12-06 09:35:44
69.   Sam DC
I had never really understood what a "mutual option" was, since I always figured if both sides had to agree, it was the same as having no option at all.

Wily Mo Pena just signed a two year deal, and here is how the mutual option works in that contract: "Pena will get $2 million in 2008 -- thus avoiding arbitration and getting only a slight raise from his $1.875 million in 2007. But he'll have a mutual option for 2009. If the club picks it up, he'll make $5 million in 2009. If the Nationals decline, then Pena can pick up the option for $2 million."

Very interesting. So if he performs well and the Nats want him, they have to pay $5M. If he is exposed and they aren't willing to pay that much, he can go to the market or elect to stay with the team at a pretty low salary of $2M. Seems like a smart away to get some certainty for both sides and to balance out the risks.

2007-12-06 09:37:13
70.   the2pin
I'm actually on board.

AND maybe I'm a conspiracy theorist, but...

Does anyone else think this is actually Ned being a little bit shrewd? If Ned had gotten rid of Pierre first Boras would have known the Dodgers needed a CF desperately and would have jacked up AJ's price.

However, now that the Dodgers have their CF, I think Coletti is going to get rid of Juan Pierre. Saying "Pierre is moving to left field" is a smoke screen to not let other teams in on how much we want this guy gone.

Any chance this is correct? Maybe now I'm the one being shamelessly optimistic.

2007-12-06 09:38:19
71.   jelmendorf
Re: #24

I knew Thomas Paine. Thomas Paine was a friend of mine. Jon, you're no Thomas Paine.

Paine, I think, would be in favor of playing Pierre. After all, in the Crisis, he wrote:

The NL West, like hell, is not easily conquered; yet we have this consolation with us, that the harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph. What we obtain too cheap, we esteem too lightly: it is dearness only that gives every thing its value.

In short, he's all in favor of over-priced contracts because the handicap engendered makes ultimate victory all the sweeter. Imagine the joy of winning the division in spite of having the worst left fielder in the game.

2007-12-06 09:40:34
72.   Dave G
Happily and hopefully signed!

70- I think you might be right--for those reasons, and also to give AJ the idea that Pierre would bat in front of him "so that he could drive in more runs."

I think we're both being shamelessly optimistic, but hey, it's hot stove season.

2007-12-06 09:40:57
73.   paranoidandroid
I don't see Pierre getting benched. That would ruin any trade value for him. We can likely live with Nomar on the pine for $9 mil, but that is only one year. I don't think Pierre is considered a fourth outfielder by our leadership.

Even if Ned and company admit the mistake, Pierre is our problem unless he's traded, an unlikely scenario unless we find a matching problem with a contract issue. The type of trade that could work would be something like Juan and Andy for Rolen. The Cards would be rid of their guy with issues and we trade bad contracts with them.

I think if we really need to simply accept Juan as a left fielder and hope that Torre considers the old notion of American League's second leadoff man being the guy who hits ninth.

The compromise for the start of the season would be Juan in left, batting eighth. He's never been on the DL, maybe that will catch up to him this year. Addition by subraction.

2007-12-06 09:40:59
74.   Eric Stephen
69 I think Glavine had a similar mutual option. After 2006, Glavine's option was (after reaching some IP plateaus) a $14m club option, which was declined by the Mets. It then became a $7.5m player option, which was declined by Glavine. They then agreed to a $10.5m contract for 2007 ($7.5m in 2007 plus what became a $3m buyout of a club option for 2008).
2007-12-06 09:42:12
75.   Hythloday
71 meet 33
2007-12-06 09:45:24
76.   ToyCannon
Several cortisone shots say yes. I don't want to bring this in but my brother used to work for the Braves, even had an office right across from Aaron, and still works for CNN. A Jones was hurt, played hurt. We will be happy. He didn't have to play hurt during his walk year, he could have pulled a Chipper Jones and taken himself out of the lineup. He didn't.

D4P you've been very negative about A Jones. I think some of it is your bias about Boras being his agent. I've already got a few bets on future Dodgers performance. If A Jones does not post an OPS > 840 as a center fielder in 2008 I won't post at all in Oct/2008.

2007-12-06 09:47:29
77.   fanerman
2007-12-06 09:47:35
78.   Ken Noe
70 I think it's realistic. As someone said above, signing Jones if nothing else decreases the supply of CF's on the market. JP just became more attractive to some teams who need one, notably Texas and the Chisox.
2007-12-06 09:48:15
79.   Peanuts in My Shoes
2007-12-06 09:48:27
80.   Jon Weisman
There's more info in a new post up top. But the Forgiveness Letter remains open for signature.
2007-12-06 09:49:26
81.   Jon Weisman
76 - But I would miss your posts.
2007-12-06 09:50:42
82.   joeldtaylor
2007-12-06 09:51:17
83.   Jason in Canada
Here here,
So shall it be said, so shall it be done.
(Or something like that...)


Jason in Canada.

2007-12-06 09:52:28
84.   Eric Stephen
76 I've already got a few bets on future Dodgers performance

ToyCannon, I know I have an outstanding bet with you, but for the life of me I can't remember what it is. If you don't remember, I'll search the archives.

I remember the payoff is a 2009 DT Day ticket.

2007-12-06 09:53:41
85.   ImprobableImpossible
73 I don't think lineup decisions should be based on trade value. And Pierre played every game last season. Not sure his current trade value was helped out because of that fact.
2007-12-06 09:54:08
86.   D4P
D4P you've been very negative about A Jones. I think some of it is your bias about Boras being his agent

Boras doesn't help, but my concerns would be the same regardless of the identity of his agent (unless, of course, it were me).

2007-12-06 09:54:30
87.   DadofMondy
Thanks for signing Andruw to a sensible contract. John Blanchard in Lakewood.
2007-12-06 09:55:58
88.   njr
njr and lob
2007-12-06 09:57:55
89.   Daniel Zappala
I would be scared to have D4P as an agent.
2007-12-06 10:03:45
90.   Eric Stephen
I think our bet was that I think Kent will have an OPS+ over a certain number (110?) in 2008.
2007-12-06 10:04:34
91.   D4P
I would be more concerned with finding a place where my client would be happy (e.g. high quality of life, close to amenities, good chance of succeeding and fitting in, etc.) than with securing the highest salary.

I probably wouldn't have many clients.

2007-12-06 10:05:11
92.   Rob M
Hear Hear! Thanks for a nice offseason so far, R. Moore
2007-12-06 10:05:28
93.   dzzrtRatt
I'll sign, but I want a clause that says I can opt out after two months.

M. le dzzrtRatt

2007-12-06 10:07:18
94.   Andrew Shimmin
What a lot of softies. If Colletti ditches Pierre, fine, but that doesn't get him all the way off the hook for (a) putting himself in the position for no reason or (b) making me spend a year watching Pierre. It's a plea bargain, not a pardon, I'm offering. Pierre in left is my breaking point. There are perfectly good teams in Arizona and Colorado that anybody would be proud to root for. Ditch Pierre, and I can go back to just disliking Colletti, and thinking that his mother dresses him funny.
2007-12-06 10:07:48
95.   Zach the Ripper
I'm all in.

All the way in.

2007-12-06 10:08:02
96.   fanerman
91 You'd be like Jerry Maguire or something.
2007-12-06 10:11:48
97.   Andrew Shimmin
Addendum: If Colletti is willing to be booted by an Australian immediately after Pierre's walking papers are signed, then all is forgiven.
2007-12-06 10:12:57
98.   Daniel Zappala
94 This is why Andrew doesn't have kids. He won't forgive their mistakes and is worried his wife will dress them funny.
2007-12-06 10:17:16
99.   dzzrtRatt
Ken Rosenthal disconnect.

First he says this:

The next step for the Dodgers, if they are smart, would be to trade Kemp and other young talent for one of the top available starting pitchers — Orioles lefty Erik Bedard or A's righty Dan Haren.

But then he says this:

Jones, 30, is coming off the worst offensive season of his career, but should help a team that finished 10th in the National League last season in runs and next-to-last in homers.

But isn't he implying (as everyone is) an element of risk in signing Jones? No one knows if his 2007 is a fluke or the start of a trend toward decline. While I have high hopes and would've signed him if I were Ned, there's a chance Jones might turn out to be Pierre with a stronger arm (and bigger head). Until we know, would it be prudent to trade an offensive force like Kemp? It would not.

If in June, the Dodgers are losing a lot of 8-7 games, then the Dodgers can look at the option of trading one of their young offensive studs for a front-line pitcher. If Jones is back to mashing, we'd have more leeway to do that. Right now, there are too many unknowns to justify such a move.

Another point: We don't have a lot of OF depth. If a top prospect must be traded, shouldn't it be an infielder or a pitcher?

2007-12-06 10:20:39
100.   GoBears
Signed, sealed, delivered, I'm yours.

-Ears of Gob

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2007-12-06 10:22:43
101.   natepurcell
^^^^ (my signature)
2007-12-06 10:27:37
102.   StolenMonkey86
19 I'm not claiming they were completly unmusical, but I'm not going to listen to the Beastie Boys with the same appreciation that I have for the Canadian Brass album I'm listening to now.

I marched a mellophone, which is the illegitimate child of a cornet and a french horn, or something like that. I could play it pretty well and even almost in tune, but I sounded a ton better on french horn, back when I was in practice. The point is that while I take your comment into consideration, I stand by my remark.

2007-12-06 10:30:16
103.   D4P
Ears of Gob remembered...

2007-12-06 10:31:44
104.   FirstMohican
I'm in.
2007-12-06 10:34:23
105.   Brent is a Dodger Fan

I forgive Ned so long as he doesn't trade Kemp or Ethier to make room for Pierre.

2007-12-06 10:34:56
106.   bhsportsguy
I'm in but I can't speak for Senator Landrieu.
2007-12-06 10:37:14
107.   TheBigGrabowski


2007-12-06 10:45:29
108.   Da Dodge
Kemp-Jones-Ethier! Or we'll sick the ghosts of Duke Snider, Junior Gilliam, and Carl Furillo on you.

Re: Jones--we overpaid.
Incentives. Gentlemen. Incentives. INcentives!

2007-12-06 10:50:38
109.   stopthebeachballs
(Creative Joke)
- Signature
2007-12-06 10:51:00
110.   dzzrtRatt
An angle on trading for Bedard from the Sporting News' Sean Deveney (

"In Baltimore's case, teams seeking Bedard would also have to take on one of the team's albatross contracts, especially that of Melvin Mora. No one wants to do that."

Also in the Oakland Tribune, Beane seems to be saying he won't trade Haren or Blanton unless the other team is "extremely generous."

Could Ned make a case for trading Kemp for anything less than Bedard, Haren or Santana? No. But that's not the only obstacle to obtaining those pitchers.

I think Kemp's staying. I don't think we're getting any of those pitchers.

2007-12-06 10:51:54
111.   sweepstakes

Please don't block the path of Ethier or Delwyn Young for a liablity like Pierre.

2007-12-06 10:51:56
112.   driches
I'm on board.

Is it worth looking into actually sending this letter to the Dodgers front office, although maybe formalized a bit? Who knows if anyone would read it, but maybe we could actually do some real-life, practical good with this...

2007-12-06 10:54:10
113.   ssjames
2007-12-06 10:57:11
114.   Ricardo
Congratulations for the letter, Jon!


2007-12-06 10:59:16
115.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
2007-12-06 11:00:10
116.   DXMachina
DXMachina of Machinaton
2007-12-06 11:23:40
117.   micktissue

PS - And please give James Loney all season to prove himself.

2007-12-06 11:24:23
118.   wave of mutilation
wave of mutilation
2007-12-06 11:25:39
119.   philmc78

Phil M.

2007-12-06 11:36:02
120.   The Jeff Hamilton Tribute Project
Word is bond!
2007-12-06 11:42:12
121.   berkowit28
(signed) Paul Berkowitz
2007-12-06 11:43:57
122.   Michael D
Michael D

Kemp/Jones/Ethier or bust!

2007-12-06 11:47:09
123.   DougS
Signed, with a flourish!
2007-12-06 11:50:18
124.   Brent T
Signed, sealed, delivered....
2007-12-06 11:50:29
125.   Bill Crain
The Dodgers signed Andruw Jones?
Far out.
2007-12-06 11:57:32
126.   Sub4Era
2007-12-06 11:57:55
127.   MC Safety
I have awaken to some very good news. No hard feelings Juan!


2007-12-06 11:58:49
128.   BiggO
2007-12-06 12:05:52
129.   wronghanded
Jones was a good sign Ned. You can make it a great sign however if you free this organization of Pierre.

Let me suggest Pierre to Texas for CJ Wilson (local kid with a live arm) or Wes Littleton (another local kid that will surely improve). If we have to eat a portion of the contract so be it, as mentioned above we the fans will forgive you.

Happy Hunting for a #4 or 5 starter,

2007-12-06 12:09:59
130.   Brendan
2007-12-06 12:19:54
131.   Sushirabbit
It'll all be over when we figure out how give ourselves contracts.


2007-12-06 12:30:18
132.   scottinwhittier
No more Pierre!


Go Dodgers!

2007-12-06 12:31:15
133.   alex 7
2007-12-06 12:34:33
134.   BlueCrew Bruin
2007-12-06 12:43:56
135.   Linkmeister
I hereby affix my mark:


2007-12-06 12:56:01
136.   surfing slug
2007-12-06 12:57:15
137.   scareduck
The Dodgers must think I've forgiven them already, because they e-mailed me a Group Leader letter inveighing me to buy more tickets.

Forgive and remember, that's what I say.

- Rob McMillin

2007-12-06 13:34:57
138.   walbers
you can add my name to that letter in all caps! rgds, WILL ALBERS
2007-12-06 13:34:59
139.   Dusto
Forgiven based on conditions. Get Pierre off the Dodgers.
2007-12-06 13:47:20
140.   gibsonhobbs88
I fully endorse this letter with a few slight grammatical edits to make it clearer to Ned of our intentions. Happy for the intelligent short contract, that's what Pierre should have been offered last year if anything, just a couple years at a third of the price.

As far as the pitching goes, the big ones are just asking for too much. Santana, Haren. Blanton, Bedard will just leave too many holes. It's amazing to me that the Sawks can maybe get away with offering one truly great player in Ellsbury, a good pitcher in Lester and a couple B level prospects to get Santana but the Dodgers would have to gut the whole franchise for a 1 year rental! No thanks! We have some good young arms coming through the system on our own, Kersaw, McDonald, Elbert, MeLoan. I say we can do with what we have. We can trade Pierre eat part of his contract for a 4 or #5 starter or even AAA pitcher in Chicago White sox or Texas organization and call it a wash. Let Andy take a rip at 3B with Nomar filling in a couple days a week.
Let the young guns go and get 'er done!!

2007-12-06 14:10:24
141.   Brent Knapp
There are a lot of teams out there that need a center fielder. Send pierre and 2 million a year.

Ethier/Jones/Kemp is a great outfield.

Brent Knapp

2007-12-06 14:27:10
142.   Greg Brock
2007-12-06 14:51:17
143.   El Lay Dave
If I could, I would sign this in Dodger Blue ink.

E. L. Dave.

Signed, 6 December 2007
County of Los Angeles,
State of California.

2007-12-06 15:06:25
144.   Retire 55
2007-12-06 15:14:41
145.   Todd
Signed-Todd Cooper
2007-12-06 15:23:33
146.   Shotupthemiddle
I knew when I left home today that I wouldn't be able to log in for half the day, and that I would spend the other half catching up on the posts from Jon and all the comments I missed out on...

I'm right with ya, Jon.



2007-12-06 15:40:30
147.   nownih
sign me up, please don't do anything rash!

J. Hinmon

2007-12-06 15:47:51
148.   22 Gallons
2007-12-06 16:55:21
149.   PlayKempDaily

when i got the txt message informing me of the andruw signing my first thought... DEAR GOD, please get rid of Juan P. if one of the 4 have to go!!

2007-12-06 16:57:22
150.   Jim Hitchcock
I, Jim Hitchcock, do solemnly swear that I am fully in line with the above post.

And get well soon, Joe Torre.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2007-12-06 16:59:03
151.   gpellamjr
Very sincerely,
Greg Pellam

p.s. Ethier/Jones/Kemp

2007-12-06 17:00:28
152.   Midwest Blue
If you trade Pierre for anything, even a pack of Pez candies, not only will I forgive you Ned but I will also wash your car.

Midwest Blue

2007-12-06 17:00:35
153.   Tangled Up in Blue

Tangled Up in Blue

2007-12-06 17:03:33
154.   Jacob L
Jacob L
2007-12-06 17:06:44
155.   RELX
Robert Lasner
2007-12-06 17:19:13
156.   kngoworld
2007-12-06 17:19:28
157.   Samuel
Samuel Wang
2007-12-06 17:27:24
158.   Robert Fiore
I'm assuming you've decided to insult Colletti in this fashion merely for entertainment purposes, but if you were actually serious about addressing him on this subject you would not say you would forgive him if he cuts his losses on Pierre, you'd say that you would respect him for it. You would recognize him as someone who knows what to do when a move doesn't work.
2007-12-06 17:27:45
159.   Zak
Zak Lakhani
2007-12-06 17:34:14
160.   Jon Weisman
158 - I actually don't mean to insult him, and so I would want to change this if it sounds condescending.

That being said, though I expect people in the organization will read this, I don't expect he will.

2007-12-06 17:34:35
161.   Andrew Shimmin
158- That's the soft bigotry of low expectations. You don't get a cookie for deciding not to pick your nose with a soldering iron any more.
2007-12-06 17:36:06
162.   Jon Weisman
160 - I guess my thinking is, "we will forgive the mistake." I don't have a problem with calling it a mistake, and if I realized I had made one, I wouldn't be offended if someone asked me to forgive.
2007-12-06 17:38:01
163.   Marty
I don't sign anything what my lawyer doesn't read.
2007-12-06 17:38:18
164.   Uncle Miltie
I'll miss your comical routes on flyballs, Juan.

Uncle Miltie

2007-12-06 17:38:27
165.   the2pin
161 Tremendous.
2007-12-06 17:43:20
166.   Joshua Worley
Yes, I'll certainly put the old Josh Hancock on this one.

I want to second the comment that this was very funny: "We understand that Pierre is a nice guy and very fast."

2007-12-06 17:44:15
167.   Marty
He's a good man, and thorough.
2007-12-06 17:44:52
168.   Named after Valenzuela

Looks good to me,

2007-12-06 17:46:11
169.   Named after Valenzuela
Why can't Kemp bat twice?

Err, Ethier in the 8.

2007-12-06 17:48:10
170.   ssjames
168 If we could clone Kemp and put him in right and left around Jones we would really be an excellent team.
2007-12-06 17:51:06
171.   DaveP
Dave P.
2007-12-06 17:53:17
172.   Bluebleeder87

I kind of agree with you very much. 160 to me it does sound a little bit like your insulting him. The general purpose of the letter I'm on board with though.

2007-12-06 17:53:38
173.   MJW101
I seem to be a posting behind today.

I think we should all step back and take a breath and look at JP with a lack of bias. It is true that JP is not very useful to the Dodgers because, as a #2 hitter, his low OPS and perceived lack of defense is a liability, however, to a team in need of a leadoff hitter this would not necessarily be true.

If we did not have Furcal as a leadoff hitter JP would be slotted into the leadoff role and his lack of power would be relatively unimportant, although his defense would still be problematic. A team without a leadoff hitter might look upon JP as a useful commodity.

If he was truly interested in improving the offense Ned should not have much difficulty trading JP to a team, such as the White Sox or Rangers, in need of a CF/leadoff hitter provided he kept his return expectations to a minimum. With the escalation of CF salaries JP might seem reasonable at $9M.

2007-12-06 17:58:19
174.   RELX
My father was--and still is--a Met fan, and when I was growing up, he used to write a letter every winter to Lorinda DeRoulet, who owned the team in the late 1970s, offering his suggestions on trades and free agent signings. (His main objection every year was to get Fred Lynn from the Red Sox.) DeRoulet always sent back a hand signed letter, explaining how difficult and complicated it was to make trades, etc., but telling my father how much she appreciated loyal fans like him. For what it's worth, it was cool for me as a kid to see a letter that had been signed by a genuine major league owner.
2007-12-06 18:03:44
175.   MyTummyHurts
well said were do I sign.
2007-12-06 18:06:00
176.   Jon Weisman
172 - I see your points. But I don't have the time to revise it right now. It'll have to do.

Arguably, he should be asking for our forgiveness, but that's another matter.

2007-12-06 18:13:04
177.   jystakes
Here is my "e-signature": JSY
2007-12-06 18:13:15
178.   Eric Enders
Some great names chosen in the Rule 5 draft today.

Randor Bierd
Lincoln Holdzkom
Callix Crabbe
Fernandez Hernandez

2007-12-06 18:19:19
179.   Branch Rickey
We would FORGIVE the mistake of signing Pierre to the contact. We would ADMIRE the courage to admit it was a mistake and cut him out. That's not insulting and it's not contradictory.
2007-12-06 18:21:56
180.   underdog
178 I'm going to use those in the next Marx Brothers homage I write.
2007-12-06 18:25:44
181.   Greg Brock
167 No, man. He hit me right here (grabs jaw).
2007-12-06 18:44:31
182.   player to be named later
Kemp-Jones-Ethier... Juan gone. What a lovely thought. (signs hurriedly)
2007-12-06 18:44:41
183.   Ken Arneson
178 It's actually "Fernando Hernandez": Kevin Goldstein misspelled it on BP. Still a very poetic name, though.
2007-12-06 18:56:27
184.   the count
Well put. Let's recruit the masses.

The Count

2007-12-06 18:58:37
185.   Benaiah
I enthusiastically sign. Signing Andruw and trading Pierre has been my plan for the offseason all along, it would seem like a miracle if that actually happened!

Similarly, it seems likely that signing any of the available free agent pitchers to a 3 year deal (Kuroda) will result in superfluous and expensive pitchers in 2009 or 2010. But if Ned is willing to cut bait on his mistakes then I am more willing to see him make them.

2007-12-06 18:58:46
186.   Hex Number 1E90FF
Bench Pierre, trade him if you can, and play the kids.
Can't wait for '08.
2007-12-06 19:05:15
187.   Jason in Canada
Sorry if it's been posted already 43 times, but someone needs to send this writer from Chicago a bottle of wine for trying to get Pierre to the White Sox.

Chris De Luca for the Pulitzer!

2007-12-06 19:09:06
188.   skugg
After reading this blog for awhile I've found the one thing to get me to join in.

To virtually sign this letter/petition.

2007-12-06 19:15:13
189.   Icaros


2007-12-06 19:18:53
190.   Andrew Shimmin
I think we're really defining insult down, here, gentlemen. "Mistake," too. Calling Colletti a pygmy is insulting. Wondering if he's literate--insulting. Questioning the relationship of his mother to his father at the time of his birth--insulting.

This letter: not insulting.

2007-12-06 19:26:56
191.   Icaros
I think Jon's letter is nice and respectful, with a dash of light-heartedness to it.

I don't see how anyone could take offense to something written in Shakespeare font, anyway.

2007-12-06 19:27:36
192.   Xeifrank
Ned, do the RIGHT thing.


Very Respectfully,


2007-12-06 19:29:01
193.   3upn3down
Greg, 3upn3down
2007-12-06 19:29:45
194.   cloakedarbiter
69.3% vote Ethier/Jones/Kemp for best outfield for the Dodgers on the latimes, 654 total responses, lets up that.
2007-12-06 19:30:01
195.   cloakedarbiter
2007-12-06 19:30:16
196.   tjshere
I'm not only on board with this idea, it's the only thing I want for Christmas.


2007-12-06 19:35:56
197.   dkminnick
Signed enthusiastically,

Doug Minnick
Studio City, CA

2007-12-06 19:38:32
198.   tjshere
194 Done! It's now 69.9%

I'm only worth 3/5ths of a percentage point??

2007-12-06 19:39:19
199.   Hallux Valgus
signed, this guy. although I really prefer Comic Sans as my font of choice.
2007-12-06 19:40:31
200.   MyTummyHurts

I agree with those terms...

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2007-12-06 19:46:30
201.   Robert Daeley
199 /puts web geek hat on. Since Jon used a font face=cursive tag to create that effect, you could customize your browser's cursive font to be whatever you want, including Comic Sans or (for the contrarians) to their favorite bland font. Google "setting cursive font web browsers" for various pointers.
2007-12-06 19:47:44
202.   MyTummyHurts
I'm giving him credit this winter the guy is playing it as cool as can be. So far I give him an A, if we sign Kuroda I'll give him an A+. We keep the youth in tact & Ned Colletti will be praised by all.
2007-12-06 19:53:38
203.   Hallux Valgus
201 that sounds like a pretty sweet hat. My hats can't do that.
2007-12-06 19:56:24
204.   Bluebleeder87
I really think a change of scenery is gonna help Andruw Jones plenty (He's played his whole career in "HotLanta") so I'm really expecting him to be re-energized with the young up & coming Dodgers, I really really do...
2007-12-06 19:57:21
205.   JRSarno
/dictated but not read/

Yours very truly,

Kenny Landreaux

2007-12-06 19:59:34
206.   El Lay Dave
198 And your value is declining.
2007-12-06 20:01:22
207.   Bluebleeder87
I didn't realize Joe Torre had knee surgery on Wed. hope for a speedy recovery [ ]
2007-12-06 20:03:34
208.   mike eff
as an understanding yankee fan...i sign this petition.
2007-12-06 20:03:38
209.   Eric Stephen
Let's hope that's the only significant Dodger injury through 2008.
2007-12-06 20:05:44
210.   Bluebleeder87
This also on [ ] Gibbons & Guillen suspended for drug use.
2007-12-06 20:06:05
211.   Matt Conroy


I'm a little uncomfortable with the degree to which Pierre has been identified as the root cause of the Dodgers' problems. A weak back end of the rotation, injuries, veterans failing to deliver (Nomar and Gonzo step forward) and an inconsistent bullpen down the stretch should take their share of blame as well.

Having said that, I like the Jones addition and am happy to either keep Pierre as a fourth outfielder or deal him to any team willing to throw us a bone in return.

2007-12-06 20:07:10
212.   natepurcell

Chris De Luca is my new best friend.

Meanwhile, Bill Plaschke reaffirms that he is my mortal enemy...

No, no, the Dodgers will not and should not trade the short-armed center fielder. Just because he was overpaid doesn't mean he lacked value. Did everybody somehow miss that he was second in the league in stolen bases and led the league in sacrifice bunts?

I can't even respond to that anymore.

2007-12-06 20:08:44
213.   El Lay Dave
212 And he "stole" Jon's theme. The article begins:

Here we thought the Dodgers just needed a little pitching and hitting, but General Manager Ned Colletti is apparently intent on acquiring something much more powerful.


2007-12-06 20:09:33
214.   ucladodger

Matt Rochlin

212 Plaschke might be the least knowledgeable sports writer EVER. Anyone care to send him a few articles on why stolen bases and sacrifice bunts suck?

2007-12-06 20:11:44
215.   Bluebleeder87
Jay Gibbons is a local boy too, check it out, from Wikipedia >>>Gibbons was a graduate of Mayfair High School in Lakewood, California. He played college ball at California State University, Los Angeles.

CalState L.A is with in walking distance from my house.

2007-12-06 20:12:25
216.   natepurcell

He won't listen. He's ignorant.

2007-12-06 20:13:05
217.   El Lay Dave
Although, to be fair, Plaschke is sort of right on this:

[Jones] power allows them to give Andy LaRoche a long-awaited chance to win the job at third base.

It's really that Jones' bat, if sound, reduces the downside risk of giving LaRoche an extended run at 3B and riding out LaRoche's slumps.

2007-12-06 20:14:37
218.   natepurcell
out of 890 responses on the LA times poll on which outfield alignment would be the best, the Ethier-Jones-Kemp one is at 71.5% of the votes.

Front Office needs to listen to us and not to Plaschke.

2007-12-06 20:14:41
219.   Bluebleeder87

for a minute there I thought you said he "Stole Jons hart".

2007-12-06 20:14:57
220.   thinkingblue

ok, I'm just going to count to 100...1,2,3,4,..............

2007-12-06 20:15:06
221.   El Lay Dave
187 Suggestion: Reunite the old friends, Juan Pierre and Kenny Williams, plus Juan's soon-to-be great friend Ozzie Guillen. How about minor-league lefthander Ray Liotta in return, just because I like the name.
2007-12-06 20:15:32
222.   natepurcell

He's right on that but he is dead wrong on Pierre. I mean, we can have Kemp and give Laroche the chance too!


2007-12-06 20:15:41
223.   MC Safety
Bill Plaschke, raining on parades since (insert whatever horrible year he started writing for the times).
2007-12-06 20:17:02
224.   natepurcell

There has to be a market for Pierre.

Even if we eat 2 mil a year for the remaining of his contract, teams should want Pierre for 7 mil a year when Aaron Rowand is probably going to get 15 mil a year.

2007-12-06 20:19:12
225.   El Lay Dave
Apparently Plaschke still believes that Dodger Stadium is the pitcher's paradise it used to be:

You say it's silly to bring a power hitter to Dodger Stadium? OK, well, how about bringing a perennial Gold Glove winner to Dodger Stadium?

2007-12-06 20:21:19
226.   ucladodger

Again, Plashke knows nothing about sports, especially about these new-fangled statistics and theories that can disprove nearly everything he says.

2007-12-06 20:21:41
227.   Matt Conroy
God I feel for you poor people in LA. Arguably the two worst sports columnists in the country - Plaschke and Simers - and they both work for the same paper.
2007-12-06 20:21:44
228.   Bluebleeder87

even if we pay a little more (3 to 5 mill more) as long as Ethier, Jones & Kemp play together.

2007-12-06 20:21:57
229.   El Lay Dave
223 1987. Don't you think he was raining on a few parades in Ft. Lauderdale and Seattle before he got here?
2007-12-06 20:24:03
230.   natepurcell

To justify sending 3 mil a year along with pierre, I just add 1.5 mil to each of Ethier's and Kemp's salaries. :)

2007-12-06 20:24:22
231.   natepurcell
Thats how Colletti should look at it too.
2007-12-06 20:32:26
232.   micktissue
Can I sign again, and again?

If the net can be used to formulate a plot, why not a lineup?


2007-12-06 20:33:15
233.   D Money
a 4 OF platoon would be excellent....we have Ethier/Jones/Kemp with a HUGE baserunning threat for late game pinch running....

one thing said...Pierre's OB% may be low, but he still gets on base more than most players.

make no mistake he could be a CF upgrade on many at least a few teams, therefore trade bait for some value...maybe bullpen help.

let us hope we sign Kuroda so we dont have to go sign a starter (which i dont think we need to do anyways.

and anyone In favor of getting Rolen PLEASE get real.....the thinking it could get rid of Pierre's Contract is LUDICROUS

Put Ethier, Kemp, Pierre in a platoon and it wont be long before Pierre loses playing time....and that enables us to let LaRoche take Nomars PT.

2007-12-06 20:34:14
234.   dzzrtRatt

But of all the Dodgers kids last summer, Kemp was the most raw, the most difficult to coach, often the most perplexing.

Most of the Dodger coaches have left the team, as has the manager. Could an actual reporter be dispatched to call these people up and ask them what was so awful about coaching Kemp?

What did he do that was so "perplexing?" He wasn't a streaky hitter. His fielding was mostly okay. He made 2-3 running mistakes.

J.D. Drew was perplexing. Milton Bradley was perplexing. Derek Lowe is perplexing. Kemp is an open book.

As for "most raw," his numbers totally belie that. LaRoche, Young, Abreu, Meloan all look far more raw than Kemp. If the word raw in this context means, "not prepared."

Plashke writes like he uses those refrigerator magnets with random words on them. He doesn't have an accurate word, so he uses whatever is handy. His writing style is le mot faux.

2007-12-06 20:36:25
235.   D Money
also...if you think Torre will make a lineup based on a increasing or decreasing a players trade value ur nuts.
2007-12-06 20:38:29
236.   thinkingblue

C'mon Ned trade Juan Pierre,
make our dreams come true!

2007-12-06 20:38:39
237.   D Money
i think "raw" may mean that a player is playing more on "raw talent" than baseball skills....which may explain some baserunning and defensive gaffs, but you are basically right on...
plashke is preposterous.
2007-12-06 20:39:51
238.   LogikReader

Hey Nate. Just voted on the outfield poll. Jones-Ethier-Kemp is still dominating the LA TIMES poll with 72% of the vote. 1000 votes are on, so that means.

720 out of 1000 people don't want Pierre in the outfield!

2007-12-06 20:40:51
239.   LogikReader

Two corrections

1000 votes are in not on.

so that means... (needed some more periods)

2007-12-06 20:41:38
240.   D Money
on my way to vote...
make it 721
2007-12-06 20:42:32
241.   El Lay Dave
234 Besides, aren't the Dodgers paying Joe Torre & Co. to solve a lot of the "the most raw, the most difficult to coach, often the most perplexing" issues? Purportedly.
2007-12-06 20:42:49
242.   Andrew Shimmin
Pierre's OB% may be low, but he still gets on base more than most players.

That's not true. League average OBP, adjusted for the Park Factors Pierre got this year was .347. Pierre's OBP was .331.

2007-12-06 20:43:31
243.   Connector
Add my name to the letter, Jon.
2007-12-06 20:43:53
244.   willhite
Even if we eat 2 mil a year for the remaining of his contract, teams should want Pierre for 7 mil a year when Aaron Rowand is probably going to get 15 mil a year.

If you were a GM, would you pay 7 mil times four years for JP?

2007-12-06 20:45:56
245.   natepurcell

No lol....Kenny Williams please save us!

2007-12-06 20:46:51
246.   El Lay Dave
244 Would you believe four million dollars?
Two million?
OK, league minimum plus a dozen pallets of BP baseball, but that's my final offer.
2007-12-06 20:46:58
247.   D Money
im talking totals, not percentages.

sometimes a percentage is overrated was my point.

basically if you get on 36% of the time for a total of say 100 times is that better than getting on 32% of the time for a total of 110. with a similar amount of PA...NOT AB's.

2007-12-06 20:47:19
248.   El Lay Dave
245 Help us Kenny Williams, you're our only hope.
2007-12-06 20:48:48
249.   natepurcell


2007-12-06 20:50:22
250.   kinbote
Signed by:

Paolo Aubrey Wheaton
on this day, December 6, 2007.

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2007-12-06 20:51:25
251.   fanerman
214 That's an insult to ignorant people!
2007-12-06 20:51:25
252.   D Money
the point of OB% are getting on base to score runs.....
so if player A has a lower obp but got on base more
and player B had a higher obp but got on base less
who is more valuable....?
that is the question im asking.
2007-12-06 20:51:42
253.   Andrew Shimmin
PAs is the denominator in OBP.
2007-12-06 20:51:56
254.   El Lay Dave
247 If you got on 100 times at a 36% rate, you made 278 PAs. If you got on 110 times at a 32% rate, you made 344 PAs (and made 56 more outs!), so that's not a similar amount of PAs.
2007-12-06 20:51:59
255.   ucladodger

No, percentages arent overrated. what it means is that you can plug basically anybody in Pierre's spot in the lineup and that person will get on base more than Juan. His total numbers are so high because he had so many plate appearances, as he played in every game and hit 1st or 2nd in most of those.

2007-12-06 20:52:46
256.   fanerman
By 214 , I meant 216 .
2007-12-06 20:54:38
257.   Bluebleeder87
I can't wait to see "The Office" on my new high def lcd flat screen today...
2007-12-06 20:54:49
258.   El Lay Dave
252 Assuming both are adequate defensive players, the manager is a moron for playing player A too much and player B too little. The manager is allowing player A to make too many outs too often and not allowing player B to get on base more often with less outs.
2007-12-06 20:54:58
259.   natepurcell

If you have a higher OBP, you are going to get on base more.

2007-12-06 20:56:19
260.   Tim in SD
Yes, we will forgive. Don't trade Kemp unless it's for Bedard or Haren. Even then Mr. Pierre should not be a starter. I'd rather just sign Kuroda. If Kemp or Ethier is traded then you still would need another OF. Keep Blanton away as his IP/H ratio is horrible. Let Nomar and LaRoche battle. Looking forward to a great season.
2007-12-06 20:58:56
261.   MC Safety
Couple that .331 OBP with zero home runs, and that has replaceable written all over it.
2007-12-06 21:00:57
262.   MC Safety
[260 Blanton doesnt K anybody as well. I dont like Blanton for prospects at all.
2007-12-06 21:02:58
263.   natepurcell
Pierre for Dave Roberts!
2007-12-06 21:03:03
264.   El Lay Dave
252 Put it this way. Suppose you are at a blackjack table, but instead of being dealt two cards you get to pick your hand, but from only two choices 18 or 20. For some weird reason, you pick 18 almost all the time, but every once in a while you pick 20. So your 18s will have more wins, but your 20s are clearly more valuable, since they have a better chance of winning (think higher OB%) and you would have won more often if you picked 20 all the time.
2007-12-06 21:03:44
265.   El Lay Dave
263 ANY of the Dave Robertses!
2007-12-06 21:10:51
266.   El Lay Dave
I'm wondering. How much value does Juan Pierre have on the bench? Yeah, in those occasional key pinch-running situations. He makes for an atypical PH - no power, will ground into too many FCs, but ok with bases empty. He's no defensive whiz, but with a multi-run lead, perhaps the noodle arm is less of a factor? Just thinking aloud.
2007-12-06 21:19:13
267.   MC Safety
Looking through potential lineup configurations, I think its safe to say an Ethier/Jones/Kemp lineup has some serious power potential. Im really hoping Ned's going to give his Ethier signing the nourishment it deserves over possibly reincarnating Luis Polonia.
2007-12-06 21:19:43
268.   oshea2002
I'm not even sure Plaschke is the dumbest writer at the Times. As an SC fan, I despise the filth that Dwyre writes, and I heard Simers on the radio this summer still blasting the Lo Duca for Penny deal, saying that even now it was and remains to be a terrible trade. I called xtra right then and demanded he be taken off the air for being the dumbest show host they'd ever had.
2007-12-06 21:21:34
269.   NorCal-Dodger
Let's hope that when Ned tried getting a hold of Juan, that he will be planning to let him know that he'll be competing for a spot with Andre. If he did not care for that, he can be traded for some prospects.

Nothing personal Juan, just business.

2007-12-06 21:21:57
270.   capdodger
266 JP could be an adequate pinch-runner/designated-bunter. That's about it, but I imagine that Torre would use him as a defensive replacement anyway.
2007-12-06 21:25:28
271.   KAYVMON
266 I was thinkin that Pierre might not be a bad pinch hitter, being that he is a contact hitter, for those late game, less than two out, man on third situations. But, really, thats Nomar. Actually, the more I think about, Nomar seems like a pretty good idea as a pinch hitter. He still can hit the 7th inning reliever's weak fastball and he wont stike out when all you need is to trade sacrifice fly. And the crowd will get really loud for him. Lowriiiiider, blah, blah, blah blah...

We just need another guy on the bench who can take a walk or hit for power for when no one's on base type situation (that might be D. Young, if only for the reason that Vin thinks hes a great hitter)

2007-12-06 21:26:12
272.   cloakedarbiter
252 Pierre 'got on-base more' because he had so many plate appearances, it also meant he recorded more outs... MANY more outs. Whoever has the higher OBP will get on base more given the same amount of opportunities, that is exactly what the definition of OBP is.
2007-12-06 21:26:26
273.   natepurcell
Whats that website that lets you put a lineup together and see the runs created?
2007-12-06 21:29:32
274.   Eric Enders
Ken Arneson,
In the last few hours, did you change something about the way the site displays the cached comments? My browser will no longer allow me to expand the old comments in each thread. All I can view in this thread is post 251 and later.
2007-12-06 21:29:58
275.   oshea2002
Apparently the Padres have made a big offer for Fukodome, and rumor is he will take less to play on the west coast -

UPDATE, 12-6-07 at 7:39pm: Sandy Alderson was on 1090 AM XX Sports Radio tonight. He said the Padres gave Fukudome one of the top two or three offers the team ever proposed. An answer from Fukudome is expected tonight or tomorrow.

2007-12-06 21:30:16
276.   cloakedarbiter
It bothers me that 1261 responses has dipped to 70.3%.
2007-12-06 21:30:24
277.   Eric Enders
I'm using IE 6.02, by the way. (Yeah, I know, Firefox, yada yada blah blah.)
2007-12-06 21:31:55
278.   KAYVMON
I do think that the problem with Nomar on the bench is that everytime its a late game situation and some old time reliever is pitching, Torre's going to look at Nomar's great career stats against the guy, and pinch hit Nomar for one of our starters. Specially if its a lefty and Loney or Ethier are up.
2007-12-06 21:32:28
279.   natepurcell
Dodgers reject Balt's trade proposal...

. According to one major league source, the Orioles recently discussed Bedard with the Los Angeles Dodgers and asked for a package of prospects that included 23-year-old outfielder Matt Kemp, third baseman Andy LaRoche and 19-year-old left-hander Clayton Kershaw, the last of whom was the Dodgers' first-round pick in 2006 and reached Double A at the end of last season.

Reportedly, the Dodgers rejected Baltimore's proposal out of hand

2007-12-06 21:35:26
280.   KAYVMON
273 Hey Nate, do you go to UofA or AState? Im seriously considering going to the Holiday Bowl. Texas vs. A State in San Diego might be the most amount of hot girls in one city, like ever
2007-12-06 21:36:41
281.   natepurcell
2007-12-06 21:40:40
282.   natepurcell

The Royals topped the total value of the Dodgers' offer of $36.2 million, but they lacked the payroll flexibility to front-load the deal with a hefty signing bonus.

Boras didn't go for the most money!

2007-12-06 21:41:33
283.   El Lay Dave
Further ruminations. The Dodgers organizational depth for OFs is not very good.

At the MLB level: Jones, Kemp, Ethier, Pierre, Young (sort of, rookie), Repko (451 career MLB PAs)

But in the minors, what is there, Xavier Paul and Andrew Lambo, if Lambo is an OF and not a 1B?

Can the Dodgers really afford to trade an OF in a deal for pitching?

One the other hand, although I would agree that hording pitching is generally a good idea, this is an area of organizational depth. I certainly don't want to trade the Minotaur, is there a good pitcher that might be had for a reasonable set of pitching prospects (if those are not also mythical)? This doesn't bring a Santana, Bedard or Haren, of course, but Ben Sheets has been mentioned before. He's clearly a risk (22, 17, 24 starts the last three seasons) and a one-year rental ($11M for '08) - doesn't that help drive the down? I wonder what Melvin could be talked into?

2007-12-06 21:41:41
284.   Ken Arneson
274 I have not made any changes to the software in quite a while. I'll investigate though...
2007-12-06 21:42:50
285.   dzzrtRatt
248 Texas is another team that would actually benefit from JP in CF, though they'd probably rather have Ethier.

279 As Ned has implied, Jones' arrival changes this dynamic, although it wouldn't make him accept that deal as is.

For us closet Kemp-lovers, the greed of the A's, Orioles and Twins is our secret joy. God help my psyche if Baltimore came back with something fair for Bedard that involved Kemp.

2007-12-06 21:44:38
286.   Ken Arneson
284 IE6 works fine for me...
2007-12-06 21:45:57
287.   Dave G
It kills me to ask this, because I love Kemp and hate thinking of having Pierre in the OF another year--and it's impossible to think of trading Kemp without at the same time thinking of JP in his OF spot--but in a JP-less vacuum, might it be the right sell-high time to trade Kemp now, given that his BA and BABIP were extremely, probably unsustainably high last year, and his B-R comps are all over the map? Thoughts?
2007-12-06 21:46:34
288.   El Lay Dave
274 You can't believe the cleverness you're missing in 249 !
2007-12-06 21:50:08
289.   Eric Enders
OK, I figured it out. I forgot I'd disabled scripting a few hours ago because I was making a rare visit to the intensely annoying
2007-12-06 21:51:20
290.   Eric Enders
And man, was 249 a disappointing post.
2007-12-06 21:52:49
291.   dzzrtRatt
I have to use up a little space here to quote in full a comment on the Times' Dodger Blue blog from someone who really, really likes Pierre and therefore is mad at me and you and everyone else eager to ship him off. Our problem is, we just don't deserve him!

You guys nauseate me. My associate, the legendary Dodger Tony went on ESPN radio 710 and mentioned Juan Pierre's consecutive game streak and how we feel Joe Torre will not mess with the Gods of Baseball by interrupting it. Mr. Kamenetzky said "What 28 games?" Nice work. Juan Pierre has the longest consecutive game streak in the majors and will play 162 games again for Joe Torre (unless traded; where he will do it for others). 60 stolen bases. .333 on base % (2 points lower than your revered Furcal), .293 average, 196 hits. 37 S.O. to Furcal's 68 by the way. Here's a good one: Pierre v. Player X. Pierre .293 BA. PX: .286, Pierre 196 hits PX 179, Pierre 24 double, PX 30, Pierre 96 RunsScored PX 103, Pierre SO 37 PX 98. Pierre 64 SB, PX 50. Both play outfield in the same division. Pierre Field % .987 PX .986. Who is PLAYER X? Why it's none other than big mouth Eric Brynes, your beautiful white, blonde, blue eyed boy. Another thing, Juan Pierre, without any complaints, was forced to bat in the 2 hole for the entire season by Little, but you fans do not know what the 2 hole means do you? You don't know that the league's premiere leadoff hitter had to give himself up to the leadoff hitter, Furcal everytime up. You don't understand the difference in psychology do you? The difference in the goals. He's just batting 2nd you think, right. What an injustice to Juan Pierre. But he is old school my firends. We don't deserve him. He has a weak arm. Like we didn't know it's easier for him in a bandbox like Wrigley? A weak arm. Outrageous. So many runners are gunned down from centerfield, right? Much bigger outfield here, my friends. But you don't care. Just looking for a scapegoat aren't you? Its an obvious weakness for the amateur fan to see, so you pounce on it. How gutless. Oh, one more little thing. He is a WORLD CHAMPION - with a ring to prove it. A WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP RING. Get it? Have you no decency at long last, sir AK? LONG LIVE JUAN PIERRE!

Posted by: Hollywood Dodger Mark | December 06, 2007 at 05:14 PM

2007-12-06 21:58:42
292.   Bob Timmermann
It always comes down to Joseph Welch.
2007-12-06 22:00:13
293.   Andrew Shimmin
Leave Britney alone!
2007-12-06 22:01:36
294.   Vishal
293 hahahahahah i just going to say the EXACT same thing
2007-12-06 22:01:58
295.   trojanmansaki

At least we know that Juan Pierre reads blogs.

2007-12-06 22:03:28
296.   MC Safety
I think that guy broke rule 11.
2007-12-06 22:06:33
297.   hernari
Ugh. Bill Plaschke has a new article and reading it gave me a headache.
2007-12-06 22:07:03
298.   natepurcell

My thoughts exactly. LOL

2007-12-06 22:13:48
299.   LogikReader
As I remember it, he (it's a he, folks) said "Leave Britney ALONE! ::waaaaah::"
2007-12-06 22:16:34
300.   natepurcell
Bill Plaschke must have voted about 200x on that Latimes Poll.

Him, or Hollywood Dodger Mark.

Or Hollywood Dodger Mark IS Bill Plaschke.

Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2007-12-06 22:21:32
301.   Bob Timmermann
Lute Olson has officially said he's not coaching the basketball team at the unnamed school in the desert for the whole season.
2007-12-06 22:21:40
302.   Greg Brock
It's true that dzzrtRatt works for us. And dzzrtRatt will continue to work for us. And I fear that he will always bear a scar, needlessly inflicted by Hollwood Mark.

At least Hollywood Mark has great taste in speeches. Joseph Welch is the man. And he played the judge in Anatomy of a Murder!

Ratt is our Fred Fisher.

2007-12-06 22:22:05
303.   El Lay Dave
275 Who knows what the biggest deals the Padres ever proposed, but the biggest contracts they've ever signed aren't all that large, in relative terms, right? Peavy's purported upcoming extension of 3 yrs/ $52M? Then what? Giles 3 yrs/$30M? Klesko 3 yrs/$26.5M? It's possible that Alderson's statement is true and the offer is (only) 3years/$33M.
2007-12-06 22:22:18
304.   Eric Stephen
291 blue eyed boy

Where did Byrnes go, my darling young one?

Regarding Pierre, we'll continue to tell it and think it and speak it and breath it, and reflect from the mountains so all souls can see it.

2007-12-06 22:28:26
305.   milkshakeballa
This comforts me quite a bit, hopefully it isn't all talk.

"We are not of the mind to give up three or four prospects for one player, I'll tell you that," Colletti said. To move Kemp, Colletti added, "I'd have to have a conversation where my jaw drops. It's got to be something you can't say no to. I haven't heard anything like that. In fact, teams have stopped asking."

2007-12-06 22:30:09
306.   natepurcell

Link me!

2007-12-06 22:30:51
307.   Eric Stephen
2007-12-06 22:34:56
308.   natepurcell
Acquiring Kuroda would allow the Dodgers to use their extra outfielder to add a middle reliever, which Colletti said is another top priority.

So which middle reliever is Juan Pierre worth? :)

2007-12-06 22:40:12
309.   Joe Pierre
That was a fantastic letter, unfortunately Ned claims he doesn't read the blogs. Even if he did he seems to be very pleased with Pierre, which is unfortunate. I really can't believe they don't see him as a liability. No power, No arm, two basic funtions of an outfielder. Of course I really don't see who they can trade him to. It's a shame that two very good players full of potential, like Ethier and Kemp don't know where their future lies.
2007-12-06 22:41:17
310.   Eric Stephen

or Jae Seo!

2007-12-06 22:47:01
311.   natepurcell
"But Colletti said that the weak-armed Pierre's likely move to left field -- if not another team -- didn't mean he regretted signing him to a five-year, $44-million contract last season."

I will pray for that tonight and every night until Christmas.

2007-12-06 22:50:33
312.   Xeifrank
287. It could very well be a "sell high" time on Kemp, but the point is moot if other teams aren't going to give you fair value in return for him. vr, Xei
2007-12-06 23:00:18
313.   milkshakeballa
According to one major league source, the Orioles recently discussed Bedard with the Los Angeles Dodgers and asked for a package of prospects that included
23-year-old outfielder Matt Kemp, third baseman Andy LaRoche and 19-year-old left-hander Clayton Kershaw, the last of whom was the Dodgers' first-round pick in 2006
and reached Double A at the end of last season.

Reportedly, the Dodgers rejected Baltimore's proposal out of hand.

What a ridiculous offer. 3 top 15 prospects...come on. I wouldn't trade that for ANYBODY, including Santana. I don't believe Bedard is on Santana's level at the moment, am I mistaken?

2007-12-06 23:16:05
314.   Benaiah
312 - Exactly. I am worried that Kemp will have to dramatically improve his power and patience to make up for the inevitable decline in his batting average. I think there is a real chance that this was the best season of his career, even though as a fan I hope not. If he was valued as Jacoby Ellsbury with power instead of patience I might think it was worth trading him. He is miles above Maybin though so I am surprised that Ned couldn't figure out a Cabrera trade.
2007-12-06 23:18:26
315.   MC Safety
Im really interested in seeing if Meloan is going to get this shot starting with us, or with another club.
2007-12-06 23:25:15
316.   Vishal
314 so he won't hit .340, big deal.

i see no reason why kemp won't be able to put up, say, a .300/.350/.525 on a regular basis.

2007-12-06 23:32:41
317.   KAYVMON
316 Kemp's speed is a viable reason for his batting average being higher than one would except. I dont have the stats, but it seems like if Kemp continues to make contact at the rate he did last (ie his LD% and such) him hitting over .300 consistently, with his speed, could be expected. Unempiracally, I do remember hit getting a lot of infield hits last year.(particularly ground balls he pulled to the shortstop hole)
2007-12-06 23:33:55
318.   natepurcell

That optimistic projection just made me smile.

2007-12-06 23:34:49
319.   beLITTLED and maligNED

beLITTLED and maligNED

2007-12-06 23:37:00
320.   Eric Stephen
Top Comps: Rick Monday

Hopefully the flag Andruw will save is the pennant!

2007-12-06 23:37:05
321.   fanerman
317 It's been suggested that Kemp hits ground balls so hard that they have line drive characteristics (thanks to his Bison Strength™), which help explain his abnormally high BABIP last season. Also, his Bison Speed™ may help him run out ground balls.
2007-12-06 23:37:15
322.   regfairfield
318 The pessimistic is pretty scary.
2007-12-06 23:38:49
323.   jasonungar07
Jason's odds:

a. Pierre traded 30%
b. Kemp traded 20%
c. Ethier traded 30%
d. none of above 20%

2007-12-06 23:42:06
324.   beLITTLED and maligNED
I love it when someone says "period" to end a sentence. I heard Barry's voice in my head while reading Plaschke's article. Period.

"Sorry, you can't platoon them. You don't platoon young players who already have spent time in the major leagues. You pick one, and you give him a chance, period."

2007-12-06 23:50:46
325.   Bob Timmermann
Would you prefer "full stop?"
2007-12-07 00:45:21
326.   KG16
I just read Plaschke's latest... beside the obvious question of why do I continue to kill brain cells in the least fun way, I have to ask:

Why would the Dodgers not take advantage of the Jones signing to move Pierre? Does Plaschke really think that sacrifice bunts are that important? When the guy hitting next hits a homerun approximately once every four games? I mean, I get the fascination with stolen bases (I like those too), but since the base most likely to be stolen is second, that just means the guy hits a lot of singles. But really, does he think that Pierre is honestly more valuable than Ethier or Kemp?


2007-12-07 00:53:19
327.   dzzrtRatt
Does Plaschke really think that sacrifice bunts are that important?

Or that only Pierre has this skill?

I've seen most of the Dodgers bunt one time or another.

Pierre bunting for base hits -- now that's something he does that I got a kick out of. I saw him bunt for a couple of doubles. Entertaining stuff. But that's not a good enough reason to keep somebody around.

2007-12-07 00:59:25
328.   KG16
327 - you know, I guess the inanity of the underlying question of value made me over look the fact that every ballplayer since little league is taught how to execute the sacrifice bunt.
2007-12-07 02:04:00
329.   KG16
This story in the Times has a poll asking what outfield alignment people want to see. The one not including Juan Pierre is winning in a landslide.

2007-12-07 04:19:14
330.   StolenMonkey86
311- Christmas is the trade deadline?
2007-12-07 04:28:05
331.   D4P
[Jones] power allows them to give Andy LaRoche a long-awaited chance to win the job at third base.

That should read "LaRoche's power allows them to give Andy LaRoche a long-awaited chance to win the job at third base"

Note to Eric Enders:

Firefox, yada yada blah blah

2007-12-07 05:27:18
332.   herchyzer
I'm in! just do it, Ned. Trade Pierre. Retain Kemp.

Signed, JS

2007-12-07 05:28:49
333.   williamsn411
Put my signature on there as well.
2007-12-07 05:39:46
334.   Sam PHL
Sam S.
2007-12-07 05:44:38
335.   Sam PHL
Long-time lurker here, adding to the Sam diaspora. I have confidence in Ned's ability to recognize mistake acquisitions and willingness to jettison them. My biggest concern is that he makes a mistake he cannot "fix", like trading away young star talent for less than their value. Based on his recent comments, I'm hoping he's turned a corner.
2007-12-07 06:18:30
336.   Ken Noe
There is hope. Ozzie Guillen "adores" Pierre, perhaps more than Plaschke, and may want him in Chicago.,deluca120607.article

2007-12-07 06:21:49
337.   Sam NYC
I wake up, come in to work, get some coffee, surf to the sports section ... and promptly spit my coffee all over my computer. Exactly how far does Plaschke have his head up his butt? I'm not going to disagree that Pierre has some value (contrary to some who think he's "terrible" but nonetheless belongs in the league -- which i still don't get), but what kind of moron thinks this is is a less desirable lineup:




I mean, it's not even close.

And, by the way, I was the first Sam. In the beginning, I was just Sam but then Sam DC showed up and screwed everything up.

2007-12-07 06:35:58
338.   Sam DC
Hey now, I was so respectful. I deferred. I put this DC after my name just so you could be left in peace, and now I'm stuck with it at web sites across the land!

Does Sam PHL work here: ?

2007-12-07 06:40:20
339.   Sam PHL
338. If you've had issues flying to or from there (as most of us have), I'm not to blame. I don't work there, but I don't live too far away from it.
2007-12-07 06:44:07
340.   Sam DC
Yum -- Love me some going out for Italian in South Philly.

Or is that the wrong direction?

2007-12-07 06:44:40
341.   Sam DC
(And I've flown in and out of BWI too many times to hold anyone responsible for their airport.)

(Except Vishal, of course.)

2007-12-07 06:47:31
342.   Sam NYC
Sam DC,

I'm just teasing. And your appearance gave me the opportunity to explain, in part, why I can be combative. You people don't know what it's like out here! It's like a jungle! Except with bankers and lawyers!

I love this Sam-chat. Just between us Sams, I really think we should be the only ones to post here.

2007-12-07 06:50:00
343.   D4P
Anyone around here like green eggs and ham?
2007-12-07 06:54:22
344.   Sam NYC
343 Unless your name is Sam, you're not welcome 'round these parts.
2007-12-07 06:54:28
345.   Gen3Blue
That Plaschke---What a nut. But look at the LAT poll and with over 2000 people voting, about 70% don't even want Pierre in the outfield. Period.
2007-12-07 06:55:55
346.   Sam DC
342 Awesome.

We can have out meetings here:

And get styled here:

Unfortuntately, this name is already taken:

2007-12-07 06:56:31
347.   Sam PHL
340. Yup, that's the right direction.
2007-12-07 07:14:43
348.   therickdaddy
Wow. I can't believe that there's a shot that Pierre can go to the ChiSox. Can you imagine? We already have our utility OFer in Delwyn Young.

I have hardly requested Colletti to do anything here in his tenure. This is a must-move.

2007-12-07 07:27:08
349.   Marty
I'd like to hear from Legendary Dodger Tony.
2007-12-07 07:34:52
350.   Benaiah
Juan Pierre would actually make the White Sox a better team. Even last year, Pierre's worst OPS since 2002, Pierre would have had the fifth highest OPS on that team (among players who had at least 400 ABs). Compared to their center fielders he looks even better as the White Sox got a .247/.308/.320/.628 line from that position (Pierre was at .293/.331/.353/.684). I doubt they will want to pay his whole salary, but this wouldn't be a bad trade for the WSox.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2007-12-07 07:44:01
351.   old dodger fan
From the White Sox website: "Unfinished business: Another impact bat in the outfield and possibly the addition of more speed at the top of the order appear to be two of Williams' prime targets as the end of 2007 approaches."
2007-12-07 07:47:47
352.   Benaiah
351 - Done and done.
2007-12-07 07:51:06
353.   MC Safety
At this point, who does Chicago have to possibly offer in a JP deal?
2007-12-07 07:53:20
354.   D4P
At this point, who does Chicago have to possibly offer in a JP deal?

At this point, it doesn't matter.

Juan Pierre and cash in exchange for the White Sox taking Juan Pierre and cash.

2007-12-07 07:57:01
355.   Sushirabbit
354, you mean we give up on an autographed photo?
2007-12-07 08:00:09
356.   Benaiah
353 - I would take Andy Sisco, he is a 25 year old, 6-10 southpaw who notches about one K per inning. Unfortunately, he also gives out 5-7 free passes per 9 IP and more than a home run per game. Still, he looks like a Greg Miller type of longshot and I would love to take him and lose Pierre.
2007-12-07 08:00:44
357.   Ken Noe
353 The guy they really seem to want to move is Crede, who seems set for the bench next year. There could be a "you take my problem, I'll take yours" deal. I assume that NedCo would want pitching instead, but I gather they don't have much down on the farm. They supposedly discussed Contreras at one point.
2007-12-07 08:03:24
358.   Sushirabbit
I think I understand the basics of why Pierre was signed. I dislike the signing as much as the next guy, but if you wanted someone "experienced" in the OF, and you wanted some speed, because Repkoo took out himself as well as hobbled Furcal, and Kent is a statue instead of your typical 2B, then I can see some logic there. But 5 years!!! $100 million!!!

Even though I value SB more than most here, it's not worth the hit the Dodger's took defensively.

I just hope Jones doesn't turn into another Schmidt. Which I still beleive is possible. Or maybe he'll hit for more power with his good buddy Kent hitting behind him.

2007-12-07 08:04:23
359.   MollyKnight
If Ned moves Pierre to the White Sox, it will be a great holiday present for all of us.
2007-12-07 08:06:19
360.   MC Safety
354 The JP for cash thing is pretty unrealistic, not that I disagree, but I see JP as a fourth outfielder before Ned just flat dumps him for cash.

356 Thanks for playing, although I think Nick Masset is out of options, and iirc he can start too. I like him more than Sisco. Gio Gonzalez would work too.

2007-12-07 08:08:58
361.   MC Safety
358 Andruw Jones and Jeff Kent are buddies?
2007-12-07 08:15:59
362.   Ken Noe
358 My personal theory is that Sabean snookered his old subordinate by driving up Pierre's price with what I believe was a four year offer from the Giants. But going for veterans is what you're going to get anyway when you hire someone out of the SF organization. That is to say, the JP deal is as much on McCourt as it is in NedCo. Which might help explain his reluctance to dis it.
2007-12-07 08:20:51
363.   Ken Noe
Some hot stove speculation of Either to our old pals the Rays for pitching. Time to get Jackson back? ;-)

2007-12-07 08:20:57
364.   Jon Weisman
358 - Repko was injured after the Pierre signing, not before.

Jones wouldn't turn into another Schmidt - just maybe another Nomar, worst-case scenario.

2007-12-07 08:25:18
365.   Jon Weisman
New post up top.
2007-12-07 08:33:57
366.   goofus
Does anyone else think it makes more sense to have Ethier hitting second and Pierre eighth rather than the other way around? This is assuming he will be playing...
2007-12-07 08:34:52
367.   Gr-ool
321 Definitely. I've seen it with my own eyes. It's not only Kemp's speed, its that he hits the ball so hard, even when on the ground..... It's going to be lots of fun watching him this coming year.
2007-12-07 08:53:58
368.   sweepstakes
I agree with the sentiment that Ned shouldn't publicly bash Pierre or any other player. Why, though, is it okay for Ken Gurnick to suggest dealing Kemp on I realize he's not dising the Bison but why is Dodgers PR staff or whatever department allowing him to speculate, spawn rumors-- things potentially unsettling to a player.
2007-12-07 13:09:37
369.   TellMeTheScoreRickMonday
367 I hope you don't mean on, catching Twins or A's games.
2007-12-07 15:40:44
370.   LA punk
Perhaps a bad contract swap of Juan Pierre for Jose Contreras?

This would allow the outfield to thrive with Kemp starting and ease Colletti's mind by adding another starting pitcher.

Preferably Contreras over Crede so we don't see LaRoche get the Loney treatment.

2007-12-07 16:53:23
371.   Blue Mousse
Lets trade Juan Pierre to the White Sox for a large pizza. By no means do I view Pierre with little value, it's just that I heard Chicago style pizza from Chicago is really good. Oh, also the White Sox will have to pick up the cash for Pierre and the pizza.
2007-12-08 20:26:10
372.   coachjpark
Exactly! SUNK COST!

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