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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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Coliseum Game Parking
2008-03-25 09:32
by Jon Weisman

If you have any parking tips for the Dodgers' Saturday Coliseum game you feel like sharing, please feel free to do so here.

Also, remember that we just created a new Dodger Thoughts Ticket Exchange Thread, permanently located on the right-hand sidebar, that might be of use this weekend or this season.

* * *

An update on former Dodger third baseman Adrian Beltre comes from John Hickey of the Seattle Post-Intelligencer:

Beltre injured the wrist diving for a ball June 1 against Texas. The diagnosis at the time was a sprained thumb. After five games on the bench, Beltre returned to the lineup.

Beltre played most of the rest of the season, missing just eight of the club's final 107 games.

When the injury, which was supposed to heal with rest, didn't come around after the season ended, Beltre finally underwent an MRI exam at the urging of the team's medical staff.

The new diagnosis caught Beltre off guard. He had a torn ligament.

Merry Christmas.

(Link courtesy of The Hardball Times)

Comments (391)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-03-25 09:48:24
1.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
While I'm open to many other parking tips, I understand that the Dodgers are to operate a shuttle from Dodger Stadium to the Coliseum. I'll see if I can find details and post a link or something...
2008-03-25 09:49:28
2.   Peanuts in My Shoes
I asked yesterday, and nobody gave me any warnings, so I'm thinking the Metro bus from Santa Monica to the Coliseum will be safe and reliable? I might bus it there and get ride with friends to get home.
2008-03-25 09:50:36
3.   MC Safety
398 Hilarious. As my Dad and I were driving home from Palm Springs the other day, this comes out his non-baseball fan mouth:

"So are you pretty excited the Dodgers got the best manager in the game?"

Sigh. But then he dropped this bombshell on me.

"Juan Pierre wishes he had half the skills Rickey Henderson had, best leadoff guy of all time."

Turns out my Dad was once a 4.4 running speedy CF himself, who actually got the concept of getting on base=scoring runs. That was pretty exciting for me because I barely ever see my Dad, and he never talks about baseball.

2008-03-25 09:50:59
4.   ibleedbloo
I'm parking at Dodger Stadium and taking the shuttle. Back is all I'm worried about, but I will be in no real hurry. I'm sure there will be bacon wrapped hot dogs around to help me pass the time.
2008-03-25 09:51:02
5.   KG16
It's a shame to hear about Beltre, even when he was disappointing, he was fun to watch. Part of me still wishes he was in Dodger Blue.
2008-03-25 09:53:36
6.   bigcpa
Ethier, 25, has more power, a better arm and will drive in more runs, tools that would make him more valuable off the bench.

Thanks to Kevin Baxter I have realized that Andruw Jones would be more valuable off the bench than Pierre. Problem solved.

2008-03-25 09:55:02
7.   ibleedbloo
"The Dodgers also announced that beginning at 11 a.m. on the day of the game, fans can park for free at Dodger Stadium, and a shuttle service will continue between the stadium and the Coliseum until 11:30 p.m. For parking reservations, fans can call Dodgers guest services at (323) 224-1507. This will enable the organization to know how many cars will be parking at the stadium for the event."

2008-03-25 09:56:29
8.   ibleedbloo
Don't bother calling to tell them you will be parking at the stadium, the "mail box is full and cannot accept messages at this time."
2008-03-25 09:58:05
9.   Xeifrank
I would take the Dodger Stadium shuttle but I am very worried that the trip back to the stadium will be a long one as everybody who parked there clamors to get on a returning shuttle. I still have a long drive to get home and don't want to be out all night long. I will probably just arrive real early for the Fan Fest and pay whatever the outrageous rate is near the Coliseum. I am prepared for a $30 parking rate. Heck, I paid over $80 per ticket. Too bad there is no subway line. That was the great thing about going to see an A's game while in college in the Bay area. You could just hop on BART and get off right by the stadium. No parking hassle whatsoever.

vr, Xeifrank

2008-03-25 10:02:42
10.   Brent is a Dodger Fan
9 There are a few things that are advantageous about living in the Bay Area... And while I do love it here, I do miss the Dodgers.... sigh.
2008-03-25 10:03:02
11.   Jacob L
7 Do they know that the Red Sox are playing in this game? And that leftfield will have Little League dimensions? I don't see the game ending before 11:30, much less having everybody shuttled back to Dodger Stadium.

My plan is to park a car in the vicinity of the Coliseum way ahead of time for the trip home. I'll either ride the DS shuttle to the game, or take the Blue Line from downtown to the Washington stop near Figueroa, and walk from there. Its probably little over a mile.

2008-03-25 10:09:29
12.   Peanuts in My Shoes
Wow...KCRW is playing a really old Pulp song right now.
2008-03-25 10:13:20
13.   Bob Timmermann
I have a plan similar to Jacob's except my confederates are going to park on the USC campus. We'll get dropped off near the Coliseum and then drive the car back.

I knew that hanging out with USC alums would pay off in the longterm.

2008-03-25 10:13:29
14.   Disabled List
Public transportation is the only civilized way to get to and from sporting events. Unfortunately, this is an area in which Los Angeles is sadly lacking behind the rest of the world. What a shame they couldn't build the Blue Line within decent walking distance of USC and Expostiion Park.
2008-03-25 10:14:00
15.   ibleedbloo
Any idea on how difficult it might be to cab it back to the Stadium?
2008-03-25 10:18:33
16.   bhsportsguy
15 Hard to say, Coliseum area is not one where you find a lot of cabs cruising around for fares.

13 I have a similar plan too, park there at USC or Coliseum in the morning, take a bus home (I already checked out my route) then either get another ride or bus back later that day.

2008-03-25 10:18:43
17.   Jacob L
14 Absolutely agreed, but I'll reiterate - the blue line stop on Washington near Fig is a walk no doubt - but eminently doable. When I went to a UCLA game at the Rose Bowl this year, I shuttled down from the Gold Line to the Stadium, but walked back. I never would have known it was possible until I tried it.
2008-03-25 10:18:59
18.   KG16
6 - yes, let's keep a guy who is entering his prime, who could probably hit somewhere around 30 homeruns on the bench so a guy who can hit approximately zero homeruns can play every day.

The first version of this comment had a lot of Rule 1 violations. I mean a lot.

2008-03-25 10:19:32
19.   dzzrtRatt
15 If you can walk over to the Bonaventure, you could probably find one. Should only take you an hour or so.
2008-03-25 10:19:49
20.   delias man
We have 8 people going in an SUV. $50 Parking divided by 8 people = not so bad.
2008-03-25 10:20:39
21.   Humma Kavula
I have an added wrinkle, which is: I must be home, in the South Bay, by 10:45. Babysitter cannot stay past 11. Yes, I realize that I will be leaving the game early. Such is one of the many sacrifices that I will make for Spawn of Kavula.

So, since I'll be leaving the game at 9:45 or so, regardless of whether it's over, will the shuttle work for me? That is, will the shuttle REALLY be constant through the evening? Or should I drop $30 for parking somewhere near the Coliseum? Or is there another option I'm not considering?

If it matters, I am planning on leaving the South Bay at about 5 p.m.

2008-03-25 10:21:41
22.   DeucesWild
Parking will be $25 and this link shows the various lots. I'm thinking of parking at USC and plan on getting there around noon.

2008-03-25 10:22:02
23.   Jon Weisman
21 - I bet the shuttle will be constant, but I'd be afraid to use it if I weren't leaving early - that is, unless I really didn't care when I got home.
2008-03-25 10:26:04
24.   Jon Weisman
23 - But maybe I'm paranoid.
2008-03-25 10:26:05
25.   Humma Kavula
23 Thanks.

The phone number in 7 is now accepting messages. I've left a message with my phone number and asked someone to call me back. We'll see.

2008-03-25 10:26:48
26.   Xeifrank
22. Thanks. I just printed that out.
vr, Xei
2008-03-25 10:26:50
27.   Bob Timmermann
I have faith in my USC connection since they have been going to football games there since the McKay era.

They even stuck out the reigns of John Robinson II and Paul Hackett

2008-03-25 10:29:26
28.   Bob Timmermann
You're not paranoid Jon. People are out to get you.

We discussed this at the last Trilateral Commission meeting.

2008-03-25 10:31:08
29.   Peanuts in My Shoes
Walking from the Vermont/King Blvd bus stop to the Coliseum at 4pm--is it safe?

How 'bout walking back to the bus stop at Midnight after the game? And the transfer stop at Vermont/Wilshire?

It's been years since I've been there, and my impression of the area is not positive. Thinking LA Story.

2008-03-25 10:33:10
30.   Kevin Lewis

I would be paranoid about putting that much faith in a system that has not even had a first run

2008-03-25 10:44:24
31.   madmac
27 I really miss Paul Hacket
2008-03-25 10:54:49
32.   Bob Timmermann
There will be a big crowd of people at those bus stops. Steet gangs aren't going to hassle a crowd of people they don't know that large.

At 4 pm on a Saturday you should have no trouble.

Remember that 90000 or so USC fans go to games without incident.

2008-03-25 10:59:36
33.   Peanuts in My Shoes
32 Thanks for the reassurance, Bob. I'm glad I won't have to worry about a Cobras vs Panthers street fight.
2008-03-25 11:02:44
34.   Humma Kavula
Update on 21 :

As we live pretty much on the Green Line, I am considering public transportation. Going to the Metro site, I see that I can take the Green Line to something called the Harbor Freeway/I-105 station, and from there, catch Metro Bus 445 to the Coliseum.

This is probably the most convenient plan for us... but public transpo, especially in that part of L.A., has such a bad reputation as being an unsafe thing to do. I don't know if this reputation is deserved or blown out of proportion. If anyone has any insight, I'd appreciate it. Avoiding the traffic is something that seems worth doing.

2008-03-25 11:04:26
35.   bhsportsguy
Is this the lineup I will see on the 31st

Today's starting lineup in their last exhibition game in Arizona.

Pierre, LF
Furcal, SS
Kemp, RF
Loney, 1B
Jones, CF
Martin, C
Abreu, 2B
DeWitt, 3B
Penny, P

If Kent is healthy, I would expect to see Kent at 2B and Abreu at 3B, who know what the OF situation will be.

2008-03-25 11:05:13
36.   cargill06
i was really encouraged watching kuroda for the first time last night, he's pretty nasty. His fastball was consistantly 92-93 touching 94-95. his sinker at times looks unhittable, and he's got pretty good command of the zone. may just be a homer opinion but i'd rather have kuroda than dice-k even if they both cost the same. when you factor in price no doubt in my mind kuroda.
2008-03-25 11:06:01
37.   bhsportsguy
34 I would expect more ridership since there will be more than a few of you from the game, I rode it on a Saturday evening a few years ago and it was fine.
2008-03-25 11:07:33
38.   Xeifrank
35. Sulk and ye shall get what thou wants.
vr, Xei
2008-03-25 11:08:27
39.   Ken Noe
35 Is Ethier staring off in the darkness right now?
2008-03-25 11:08:44
40.   Brent Knapp
6 If only we could have signed A-rod, we might have ourselves the greatest bench player sset of all time. Oh well, I guess Ethier will have to do.

I thought Dave Roberts was pretty valuable as a pinch runner in the 2004 World Series.

2008-03-25 11:09:22
41.   Linkmeister
O/T book recommendation: "Praying for Gil Hodges: A Memoir of the 1955 World Series and One Family's Love of the Brooklyn Dodgers"

It's by Tom Oliphant, the political columnist. He was nine or ten that year and lived or died with the Dodgers.

It's got some annoying typos, as though the copyeditor let some tears blur his/her vision while remembering that era, but it's still entertaining.

2008-03-25 11:10:11
42.   Jon Weisman
All media covering the game are being told to park at Dodger Stadium and take a shuttle. There is no media parking at the Coliseum for the game.
2008-03-25 11:11:19
43.   Disabled List
Does anyone know what the TV situation is with the Coliseum game on Saturday? Is it going to be televised nationally?

I see UCLA is lined up to play in the regional finals on Saturday, as well. My DVR may be pulling double duty.

2008-03-25 11:11:43
44.   Kevin Lewis

He needs to rest from all the total bases he had this spring. You can't expect him to recover too quickly from being on base so much.

2008-03-25 11:11:47
45.   Xeifrank
42. Good! Let them eat cake!! :)
vr, Xei
2008-03-25 11:14:37
46.   cargill06
38 both guys aren't handling the situation very professionaly. i understand pierre's frestration he's been a starter basically his whole career and after a normal season for him he's being booter from his normal position and now maybe starting. i can also understand ethier's frestration he's done nothing but perform at the big league level and has yet to get a fair shake. but both guys aren't handling the situation very well, here's ethiers quote from last night.

"This is how my career has been," said Ethier, who was acquired from Oakland for Milton Bradley two years ago. "Oakland didn't think I could help them out. I came here and did it. I know I can play every day and help. They must not believe it, that's just the way I see it.

"I see plenty of teams out there giving guys a chance. I understand Los Angeles is a whole different market. There are expectations. So, the last two years I've had to open eyes enough for them to believe I'm capable. I know I had to have a big spring -- they told me I had to have a big spring -- to play every day. Sometimes you need a kick in the butt or a chip on your shoulder to bring out the best in you."

2008-03-25 11:17:12
47.   Linkmeister
On suspect neighborhoods, ball parks and public transportation: back in 1992 I went to a night game at New Comiskey on the South Side of Chicago. Being out-of-town convention-goers we were a little concerned about it until somebody pointed out that there would be 40,000 of us leaving the game at about the same time, many of us in groups of 100 or so heading for the same EL station.

So Bob's point at 32 makes sense to me.

2008-03-25 11:18:00
48.   bhsportsguy
43 The Dodger game is being showed locally on Channel 9.
2008-03-25 11:20:20
49.   bhsportsguy
47 Last year, I took the subway from Midtown Manhattan to the Bronx to see 2 Yankee games, 1 afternoon, 1 evening. Again, basically the same situation, the subway was packed so there were not any problems.

But I also took the subway and walked around New York at all hours, I think I only took a cab once.

2008-03-25 11:21:13
50.   Bluebleeder87
Ibleedbloo may be on to something...
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-03-25 11:21:16
51.   Xeifrank
46. Sounds like Ethier's handling it well if that's the worst thing he has said. Most importantly, he is right!
vr, Xei
2008-03-25 11:26:09
52.   Bob Timmermann
I'd worry more about the Warriors. I hear they're headed to Coney Island for a big brawl.
2008-03-25 11:26:33
53.   cargill06
51 hmm, it seems like he is sulking to me in that quote. a lot of complaining about how no one believes in him and talking more about himself than the team.
2008-03-25 11:29:56
54.   silverwidow
The quick and dirty of it is: Ethier is right. Pierre is not worthy of starting.
2008-03-25 11:33:52
55.   Xeifrank
54. Yep! vr, Xei
2008-03-25 11:34:00
56.   Humma Kavula
54 While that's true, there's also such a thing as taking the high road and not complaining to newspaper reporters.

I mean, isn't that why Ethier has an agent? In private conversations with management, he and his agent can tell the Dodgers just what they think. The agent can also talk up his client in the paper -- that is his job. But for Ethier to say it... well, I wouldn't want to work alongside a guy who was quoted in the newspaper as saying he'd be better at my job than I am.

2008-03-25 11:35:14
57.   KG16
46 , 53 - I wouldn't call what Ethier is saying "sulking." He's calling it how he sees it. Lots of teams (like, say, the defending NL Champs) are giving young guys a shot and doing well. But the Dodgers have a bad paradigm and are blocking the better player for reasons we can only speculate.

And he's also just pointing out that he's done everything they told him he's had to do to get the job every day.

2008-03-25 11:35:25
58.   cargill06
56 exactely, that's all i'm trying to say is both guys arent' handling the situation very well at all. it's not about who's right or wrong.
2008-03-25 11:35:31
59.   ToyCannon
At his age every year he sits on the bench takes millions from his pocket. When he plays he may care about the team but when he sits he knows he's losing money. JP has his money, so when he sulks he's just being a hard working sulker. The veterans who tell him to suck it up and worry about the team also already have their millions. At this point in his career Kent only cares about winning, I doubt that is all he cared about when he was 24 and trying to win a starting job with Toronto.
2008-03-25 11:37:06
60.   Xeifrank
56. True, but what if he was obviously right. That analogy can be easily twisted around the other direction.
vr, Xei
2008-03-25 11:37:54
61.   KG16
56 - pro sports is not like the real world. It's not like Ethier can quit his job and go play for another team. Nor can he go start his own team.

Plus, to play any sport at a high level, you have to believe that you are better than everyone else. Even if all the evidence is to the contrary. And here, it's not.

Lastly, sometimes comments like this are needed in the media, it's the only way to get through to management.

2008-03-25 11:38:05
62.   ToyCannon
If Ethier is not starting he couldn't care less about whose feathers he ruffles. He needs to play and if is not in LA then somewhere else. Nothing will get him traded quicker then creating a problem as I'm sure his agent has suggested.
2008-03-25 11:39:43
63.   CodyS
53 The topic of discussion is Ethier. (A reporter approaches Ethier and asks him about his place on the team.) It would be impossible for Ethier to discuss Ethier by discussing "the team."
Reporter: Do you think you should start in LF?
TeamPlayer: It doesn't matter who plays, anyone with Dodgers on their jersey will play winning baseball, via magic.
2008-03-25 11:41:07
64.   LogikReader

We can't have ETHIER traded. I don't think that will happen. It's fairly obvious that Ethier is the better player, and I think even Tommy Lasorda and Joe Torre know as much.

Now why would either of them be swayed by what some goofball one setence paragraph writer spews from his laptop?

2008-03-25 11:43:00
65.   cargill06
[57} I came here and did it. I know I can play every day and help. They must not believe it, that's just the way I see it.

To me that's sulking. You're not helping anything at all by saying that you should be playing over another guy.

2008-03-25 11:43:08
66.   Ken Noe
Of couse Ethier is frustrated. Of course Pierre is frustrated. Of course the fans are frustrated. I'm frustrated. Torre needs to make the obvious decision and soon. This "competition" has dragged on well past its obvious completion.
2008-03-25 11:44:09
67.   Humma Kavula
Now why would either of them be swayed by what some goofball one setence paragraph writer spews from his laptop?

Because their boss thinks that a lot of people in LA care about what that goofball writes. Their boss thinks that enough people agree with or are influenced by the goofball and that will affect the team's bottom line.

Now, Torre being Torre and Lasorda being Lasorda, there's probably only so much they care about what McCourt thinks, except that they might also think, "Hey, it's his team. Whatever."

2008-03-25 11:48:04
68.   LogikReader

Dang did I have a spelling error? Aw man... it's "sentence" not "setence".

2008-03-25 11:48:18
69.   Xeifrank
65. Which "other" guy does he say he should be starting over?
vr, Xei
2008-03-25 11:51:53
70.   68elcamino427
62 Excellent Observation!
For me, you have identified the essence of the argument.
Will push come to shove?
2008-03-25 11:53:53
71.   The Trolley Dodger
Don't know about sulking -- Ethier does a good job of talking about himself instead of tearing down a team mate. Saying "I want to play and think I have proven myself." might contain hubris, but I don't see the sulk. Sulking is sitting in front of your locker with your head down while your team mates are on the field.
2008-03-25 11:55:13
72.   Dark Horse
Really, I think Ethier does a great job keeping his frustration bottled. Sure, what he says has a read-between-the-lines quality--if I were him, I sure as hell wouldn't want to play for this organization at present--but he doesn't "sulk" or mouth off openly etc.

What's really frustrating about all this is that it's unlikely to be "resolved," until JP is either traded (unlikely) or craters so completely he sits down for good. We're going to see more of him this year than we want, regardless.

What a disaster that signing was. Worse by the hour, and until or unless we're rid of the guy completely, I just don't see any resolution possible.

2008-03-25 11:55:46
73.   cargill06
69 99% of people reading that would assume he's saying he should be playing every day and Pierre should be the odd man out, and it's a pretty safe assumption. Let's not our "favorites" get in the way. If I told you that Ethier is going up to Torre complaining about PT maybe you people would be saying good for Ethier making himself visable and letting people know how bad he wants it.
Like I said the fact is both guys are handling the situation very unprofessionally and this could become a major problem in the clubhouse.
2008-03-25 11:58:47
74.   Xeifrank
73. Well, you editorialized his quote and used it against him, so I had to call you on it.
vr, Xei
2008-03-25 12:03:23
75.   oshea2002
What's he supposed to say if a reporter asks him this? That he doesn't care who starts and is probably not the guy for the job anyway? I'm glad he said this - this way it's crystal clear that he'll have a serious problem if he's not starting.
2008-03-25 12:04:52
76.   Bob Hendley
3 . Maybe it was due to the local influence of the Wills/Koufax era Dodgers, but growing up in Southern California during the early 1960's, my coaches always stressed the importance of just getting on, as in "just get on, kid". Another factor in my particular case might have been the knowledge that the pitchers were wild and my chances of actually connecting bat to ball were nil.
2008-03-25 12:04:58
77.   Sushirabbit
73, etc, in my book Pierre is the 5th best outfielder.
2008-03-25 12:08:13
78.   Dark Horse
73-I beg to differ. I think Ethier is handling the situation in the most professional way imaginable: by beating the tar out of every baseball thrown anywhere nearby. Pierre, on the other hand...

Look, this is a problem. There's no point pretending that it isn't. Both of them firmly believe they should be playing every day. There's nothing wrong with that, the problem is, only one of them has the game to prove it. At this point, it's incumbent upon management to solve the problem correctly, and no longer with smokescreens about how "this is a great problem to have." We're in a tough, tough, tough division. If McCourt, NedCo and Torre want to compete within it, they're going to have to do the right thing. All the rings in a box in the world won't change that simple fact.

2008-03-25 12:12:49
79.   ImprobableImpossible
I'm up for a promotion at work where they would give me much more responsibility. I'm really good at what I do and I think I can help the company. Not only that, but two years from now if I show that I'm worthy, I might receive a tenfold raise that will set me and my family up for life.

The only problem is that they're afraid to give me the responsibility because just last year they hired some hotshot from out of town. He's already making the big salary and is set for life. And while his performance is OK, it's clearly not what's best for the company because my contributions would be much greater.

How can I help my company and set up my family for life without getting an opportunity?

So a guy that hangs around the office came up to me in the hallway and asked, "Hey I-I, don't you think you should get that promotion?" And I say, "Yes I do. I've done exactly what the company has asked of me, my performance is excellent and I think I deserve that promotion."

Does that make me unprofessional?

2008-03-25 12:14:52
80.   Disabled List
As it stands right now, I'm almost positive that the Dodgers are going to open the season with an Ethier-Pierre rotation in LF, and whichever one avoids a prolonged slump will begin getting most of the playing time. I think everyone realizes by now that Kemp is simply too good to platoon, although I worry that our knee-jerk management will use any 0-for-12 stretch as justification to include him in the rotating outfield. I have to believe that the talk of Pierre being a full-timer because Ethier is "more valuable off the bench" is pure PR-speak, to maintain Pierre's value as trade bait.

I doubt very seriously that Pierre would accept an exclusive bench role. It's not like his skills have diminished any since he signed that contract. His 2007 season was a carbon copy of his 2006 season. He did what he was supposed to do, and him being benched would be the Dodgers' tacit acknowledgement to the world that "yeah, this guy really is overrated after all." Pierre would demand a trade (and who would blame him?), and his trade value would plummet even lower than it already is. As it is, his contract makes him virtually untradeable unless the Dodgers eat a huge portion of it.

I'm tired of hearing that the OF logjam is "a good problem to have." This problem sucks. No matter what the decision ends up being, there's going to be at least one player with his nose out of joint.

2008-03-25 12:15:12
81.   bhsportsguy
I agree with what Jon has been saying all along, there is no reason to trade Juan Pierre. If he wants to sit in front of his locker and look sad, that is his problem. The Dodgers are not in the business of keeping everyone happy, they are in the business of winning ballgames.

And, realistically, no one is going to take Juan Pierre, even if the Dodgers kicked a great deal money. And finally, there given how the Dodgers lost their two top 3B in a span of 30 minutes, I don't think the Dodgers will be comfortable with the prospects of either Repko or Young being in line to replace one of the starting threesome if Pierre was dealt.

2008-03-25 12:15:40
82.   68elcamino427
I really like what I've seen of DeWitt.
I wonder if they have considered him as a second baseman?
LaRoche and Dewitt in the same lineup next year could add some serious power potential.
2008-03-25 12:15:44
83.   Kevin Lewis

But history shows they can trade away favorites and the people will keep on coming. I hope someone in the front office realizes they can make a move that might upset the casual fan, but the seats will keep being filled. Pierre's contract will be paid for, whether he is on the team or not.

2008-03-25 12:17:24
84.   regfairfield
82 He was a second baseman as recently as last year. He isn't any more because he's very bad at it. From what I saw in limited action, he's not all that good at third either.
2008-03-25 12:18:33
85.   Terry A
I don't think Bill Plaschke owns/uses a laptop.

I think he scrawls his columns on used hot dog napkins, blotted with mustard, and then takes them to an intern at the Times and forces him/her to type it on "that computer doo-dad."

2008-03-25 12:19:24
86.   bhsportsguy
82 That's funny because Dewitt has never been considered a big power hitter. And as noted above 84 , the 2B experiment ended quickly.
2008-03-25 12:20:45
87.   regfairfield
Rob Neyer ranks the top 50 players in baseball over the next five years. Martin and Kemp make the list at 33 and 49. Neyer would rather have Melky Cabrera than Kemp.

2008-03-25 12:21:25
88.   cargill06
75 I don't write the line-up card, if I'm in the line-up I'll play to the best of my ability, if not I'll prepare and always be ready and do whatever I can to help the team.
2008-03-25 12:22:03
89.   Bob Timmermann
But he does go to Communion!
2008-03-25 12:23:32
90.   regfairfield
88 Ethier doing everything he can (whining) to get himself in the lineup is probably the most valuable thing he can do.
2008-03-25 12:25:03
91.   cargill06
88 haven't any of you seen bull durham???
2008-03-25 12:25:24
92.   68elcamino427
[84 86]
It will be fun to see how he progresses.
Right now, he is raking the ball.
It looks like he has taken some big steps this spring.
2008-03-25 12:25:33
93.   Kevin Lewis

That seems much easier to say if you are not playing baseball every single day and in the situation that Ethier is in. I understand your point about being professional, but I think Ethier is just saying what everyone knows, and he is doing it without belittling Pierre. I am impressed that more frustration and anger has not come out in his comments, because if I were him, I would be pissed about this...especially since he felt the same response from the Oakland management. "Just put me on a team where I can play" is what I would be saying. Yea, he wants to play for a champion, but he also wants to earn what he is due in this league, and he won't be able to do that for his family by sitting on the bench.

2008-03-25 12:26:31
94.   Kevin Lewis

Yes, but not enough to recognize the line...especially since it is a cliche in this sport.

2008-03-25 12:27:50
95.   CodyS
I can't believe we're discussing Pierre's feelings. There's no crying in baseball. A man accepts a certain level of scrutiny when he sells himself to the highest bidder. There was an alternate path for JP to go down, but he chose this one. These are the consequences. He will just have to console himself with the big mountains of $100 bills that fill his house.
You know, I used to like Pierre. I used to watch him play for the Marlins and wish the Dodgers could have someone like that. I still wish the Dodgers could have someone like that. Too bad Pierre's not it.

I think honestly, Pierre could contribute if he felt "comfortable." But that conditional contribution is not the mark of a champion. The mark of a champion is when challenged, you come out and play like Babe Ruth for a month.

2008-03-25 12:28:11
96.   Doctor
Can't help but wonder if the chip on Ethier's shoulder and the best baseball of his career are a coincidence or not.
2008-03-25 12:29:32
97.   cargill06
In Pierre's mind he probably think he deserves to start just as in Ethier's mind he think he deserves to start. I'm just curious why Pierre is being viewed as whining and Ethier is being viewed as a guy who is just showing how bad he wants to play?

Like I've said they're bothing handling the situation poorly and are both wrong IMHO.

2008-03-25 12:30:59
98.   bigcpa
Torre's lineups are starting to resemble Grady Little's daily keno game. I want to think that Torre is just bending over backwards to prove to Pierre and the world that he gave Pierre a fair shake. The alternative is we really are heading into an April/May LF job-share. Option C is the Kevin Baxter case where Ethier's skills are better suited off the bench.
2008-03-25 12:33:49
99.   ToyCannon
I think at some point in the not to distant future all of the gnashing about playing time will be moot as someone is bound to get hurt. Kind of reminds of the LaRoche/Nomar debate.

In all likely hood more then one will get hurt and we will go from a plethora of choices to not enough.

2008-03-25 12:36:56
100.   cargill06
93 we're talking about a guy who's averaged 473 PA in his 1st 2 big league seasons it's not like he's been the occasional PH, he's played a fair share.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-03-25 12:39:24
101.   sporky
Jake (NY, NY): Eric, Any thoughts on Andre Ethier's monster spring?

SportsNation Eric Karabell: (3:30 PM ET ) Yeah, he's looking like a steal for those who got him a few weeks ago very late in drafts. At this point I think most people agree he's going to play quite a bit, so it hurts his sleeper status, but he's got some pop, hits for average. Juan Pierre might not pay so much.

2008-03-25 12:40:00
102.   regfairfield
98 I think it's fair to wait until after Torre starts making lineups without Blake Dewitt's name before we start criticizing him.
2008-03-25 12:40:53
103.   68elcamino427
Torre is a proven winner.
Pierre will cry all the way to the bank.
Ethier, Jones, and Kemp will need a day off here and there.
Pinch hitting to lead off an inning.
This is where Pierre will see most of his time on the field, unless one of the others gets hurt.
2008-03-25 12:42:11
104.   Disabled List
For non-Southern Californian Dodger fans: Answering my own question in 43 , the Saturday game at the Coliseum is going to be televised by NESN. If you get that on your cable/satellite, you're in luck.
2008-03-25 12:44:17
105.   Ken Noe
Were it not for the darned China trip, Torre might have a more confident grasp of what to do, but as it is, he's barely seen either of them play. I fully expect them to split starts through April. After that we'll see if the longer trend matches the anectdotal numbers of spring. The wild card is how JP will react to the end of the streak, which now seems to be inevitable.
2008-03-25 12:45:42
106.   dzzrtRatt
"I see plenty of teams out there giving guys a chance. I understand Los Angeles is a whole different market. There are expectations. So, the last two years I've had to open eyes enough for them to believe I'm capable. I know I had to have a big spring -- they told me I had to have a big spring -- to play every day. Sometimes you need a kick in the butt or a chip on your shoulder to bring out the best in you."

I don't interpret this as a complaint, a sulk, an accusation, or a lack of team-spirit. Ethier's expressing gratitude for the management giving him "a kick in the butt" and expressing pride that he rose to the challenge. This is a competitive group of people, not a reunion of It's a Beautiful Day. They're going to talk about themselves in terms of challenges met.

If the team decides that Pierre's "old school," "intangible" playing style is what they need, I hope Ethier will be traded. He is a solid player. He ought to be starting somewhere. If he does well, it will be a costly but valuable lesson to Colletti and McCourt. (Plaschke is unteachable.)

You know who would just kill to get Andre? The Giants. I wonder if there's a good pitcher or two somewhere in their AA ranks. I know it's heresy, but if Ethier is traded, I want it to hurt.

2008-03-25 12:48:10
107.   underdog
The only thing I'd worry about with Ethier is if he pulled a Hope Solo* and was more overtly critical of his counterpart in Pierre and of the manager, rather than just pointing out how he feels he's done all he can to start. If he went down that tactless route he'd cause more upheaval and give himself a bad name. But he hasn't, so that's good. This will all sort itself out over the next couple of months, if not before.


2008-03-25 12:48:40
108.   KG16
Professionalism only goes so far. I'd be more worried if Ethier was saying, "Well, I guess I haven't done enough to prove that I should be playing every day."

What Ethier is doing is stating the blindingly obvious - they told him he had to have a great spring; he had a great spring. They told him he needed to contribute; he contributed. Now they aren't saying the job is his; he's rightfully frustrated.

It's not sulking, it's not whining. It's being competitive and confident.

And don't forget, as Dodger fans especially, we all know where nice guys finish.

2008-03-25 12:48:55
109.   Disabled List
106 You know who would just kill to get Andre? The Giants.

Prince Humperdink?

2008-03-25 12:49:27
110.   underdog
106 You had me nodding in agreement until your last paragraph. Let's not punish us in order to punish management!
2008-03-25 12:49:45
111.   regfairfield
106 Assuming Sabean is realistic about his teams chances, Ethier wouldn't be on the next good Giants team. Also, Henry Sosa is the only worthwhile arm they have, and you couldn't trade him for Ethier.

Maybe Ethier for Jonathan Sanchez or Noah Lowry, but even that's pushing it.

2008-03-25 12:52:55
112.   silverwidow
Saito is headed to the DL reports Diamond.

What does that mean for the pen?

Closer: Broxton
Set-up: Proctor
LH Situational: Beimel
Middle relief: Seanez
Middle/Long relief: Kuo
Long relief: Park

That's my guess.

2008-03-25 12:52:56
113.   bhsportsguy
105 I thought about that last night, that trip really hurt the team in that sense (also, the Padres re-assigned Headley instead of letting him play LF).

I think Joe is trying to see all the bullpen possibilities and middle infield guys, I think he has an idea of what he will do with the OF but its not like he is going to just play 3 outfielders in the remaining few exhibition games.

2008-03-25 12:53:11
114.   sporky
On a positive, non-Juan related note... from today's BP chat:

Wendy (DC): Any thoughts on Clayton Kershaw? Spring stats don't mean much, but he's looked good. Any chance he's the best pitching prospect at the end of the year?

Christina Kahrl: His spring performance has been strong enough to put him in the Dodgers' rotation picture in April, which would have seemed incredible just two months ago, but as you know, he is that talented. Add in being left-handed, and there's an argument right now that he's the best pitching prospect around right now, regardless of rookie status or eligibility or any of that. If his rookie status gets expended this year, that doesn't change, any more than it does for Joba Chamberlain or Clayton Buchholz; they're just an exceptional trio of talents any of us would wish to have on our favorite team for the next ten years.

2008-03-25 12:54:13
115.   jasonungar07
Taking names out of it..Do you go into the season planning to platoon out your leadoff hitter and the moving your 2 hole guy to leadoff etc?? I don't think Torre will do that..
2008-03-25 12:54:35
116.   sporky
Emphasis not mine, actually.
2008-03-25 12:54:54
117.   Dark Horse
97-It's simple. Pierre is "whining" because nothing he's done indicates he should be starting. There's no evidence he's working on the improvable weakness in his game--pitch recognition, taking a walk--nor any proof he's stepping up his performance. Ethier, on the other hand, is walking the walk. If Pierre did the same, if he was hitting .330 with an OBP of .385 or so, he'd have every right to complain.
2008-03-25 12:54:57
118.   bhsportsguy
112 I think this allows Saito the chance to rehab, pitch in some AAA/single A games to work out the kinks for a few games and then hopefully be back by the second week of the season.

I wonder if Meloan will get a call back this weekend?

2008-03-25 12:56:49
119.   silverwidow
118 Meloan is doubtful. I think they want him to start in the minors.

It's funny that I was pimping Troncoso yesterday and he then gets shelled.

2008-03-25 12:57:23
120.   underdog
112 Bummer. But better a healthy Sammy for the long haul this year then push him too fast. The real bummer is the idea that it gives Seanez a spot, but you may be right with that hierarchy. The others seem like locks. And Myers and Troncoso looked terrible and not ready, respectively, yesterday, and Yhency is too porky. And since they're not giving someone like Hull or Meloan a chance (yet), by default it seems Seanez.
2008-03-25 12:58:26
121.   cargill06
112 i hope it's not an arm injury. his velo is reported to be way down this spring.
2008-03-25 12:59:39
122.   Sushirabbit
So, who's going to start at 3b? Abreu?
2008-03-25 12:59:40
123.   bhsportsguy
117 Whether or not people agree with this, Pierre was not the one who had to prove anything this spring, he has an established track record and short of injury, you could probably pencil in what his numbers will be at the end of the year.

Now, if you decide that you have better options than that, so be it. But I don't think JP walking more, having a power surge or developing a rocket arm was going to change the scenario this spring. Unfair as it may seem, it was all on Ethier (and to a small extent, Kemp) to come in this spring, be professional and perform.

They did that, and now Joe Torre and staff will decide those players fates for the 2008 season.

2008-03-25 13:02:58
124.   Disabled List
I'll be honest, I have a feeling of dread regarding Saito this year. I think he's been living on borrowed time the past couple of seasons, and this might be the year when the bottom drops out.*

*-(Pun intended. He has a buttocks injury.)

2008-03-25 13:03:38
125.   Silent Bob
Anyone have reason to believe that there is truth in what TMR is saying below?!?

Frank (Boston): Can you elaborate on C-Bills injury? Is it just a tight groin or somethign wtih more long term implications like a shoulder or elbow??

SportsNation Matthew Berry - The Talented Mr. Roto: (3:17 PM ET ) Long term stuff - like this year. Was told off the record, so can't elaborate but there's a reason I have him listed as a bust

2008-03-25 13:09:56
126.   cargill06
125 this is the worst day of my life.
2008-03-25 13:12:20
127.   bhsportsguy
126 Cheer up, I survived the day Magic Johnson announced he was HIV positive (and happily Magic has done great since then).

125 Will Carroll has hinted towards this assumption about Billingsley for the last year or two.

2008-03-25 13:13:09
128.   cargill06
125 where is that chat?
2008-03-25 13:14:07
129.   underdog
125 So a fantasy guru has more inside knowledge than any reporter or scout? Gosh, I think I'll wait 'til I hear a bit more about this before deciding on the implications.

cargill, you must have had a pretty great life so far. ;-)

2008-03-25 13:16:19
130.   regfairfield
129 Exactly. I'm pretty sure Matt Berry is an expert because one day he started a website and said "I'm an expert".
2008-03-25 13:17:29
131.   Bluebleeder87
Saito is the type of player that dose not push-it if he dose not have to I'm sure once the adrenaline of a real game hits his body it will be a different story.
2008-03-25 13:18:22
132.   The Trolley Dodger
My guess? His "off-the-record" source is Will Carroll.
2008-03-25 13:19:03
133.   cargill06
129 , 130 - where's bills velocity been?
2008-03-25 13:20:58
134.   ToyCannon
I didn't, I'm just a shell of my former self.

Someone in another thread said they had never heard Chick do the play by play of the Lakers. I can't even imagine such a scenario. The 1st time I ever heard him was when they used his call of the Jerry West 60 footer that tied a game in the championship round only to lose in overtime. If the 3 pointer had been around they would have won the game and the championship.

2008-03-25 13:22:24
135.   underdog
133 His velocity in the game before was fine at least in the inning or two that I watched. In the last game he explicitly said he was working on his change up a lot and didn't care as much about the results. Honestly, if there is something wrong with Billingsley's arm I'll be as sad as anyone, but Will Carroll and some fantasy blogger mean nothing to me - I'll save my freaking out for when it's official. :-)
2008-03-25 13:23:53
136.   Bob Timmermann
If the 3 pointer had been around they would have won the game and the championship.

This presumes that neither the Knicks nor the Lakers had made any other shots in that game which were from three-point length.

2008-03-25 13:24:49
137.   ToyCannon
I hate logic when it is pointed in my direction.
2008-03-25 13:25:55
138.   ToyCannon
Ever wonder if Gail Goodrich and Jerry West would have been good 3 point shooters?
2008-03-25 13:26:29
139.   bhsportsguy
134 I don't mean to make light of that moment, truly one of the saddest days in Los Angeles Sports and back then, no one knew how long Magic was going to be with us.

Its now been 15-16 years and I don't even think about it when I see Magic but back then, people out here was as low as I can remember.

2008-03-25 13:26:43
140.   Bob Timmermann
To be honest, I had always thought the same as ToyCannon and I just had that thought come into my head a few minutes ago.

Sort of like a Saul on the road to Damascus moment.

2008-03-25 13:27:45
141.   Dodgers49
87 Neyer would rather have Melky Cabrera than Kemp.

He seems to blame Kemp for not being able to convince the Dodgers to play him every day. It seems to me the fault lies with Dodgers management.

2008-03-25 13:27:58
142.   cargill06
135 maybe that's why 114 thinks he maybe up in april.

am i pulling a rusty shackelford by trying to put all these independant sources quotes together to add up to something greater?

2008-03-25 13:28:30
143.   The Trolley Dodger
140 Threepiphany?
2008-03-25 13:28:41
144.   bhsportsguy
140 What about Gar Heard's shot against Boston in the 1976 Finals.
2008-03-25 13:30:18
145.   kngoworld
134 Video:
2008-03-25 13:39:16
146.   Bob Timmermann
I don't think Gar Heard has ever been to Damascus.
2008-03-25 13:40:17
147.   cargill06
ok fantasy question, i want a 3rd party opinion

categories- offense-R,H,HR,RBI,SB,K,BB,TB,AVG
pitching- W,L,CG,SHO,SV,K,HR, ERA, WHIP

given those catagories would you rather have, more back-up offensive players for more PA's or more back-up pitchers to give you more IP

2008-03-25 13:48:22
148.   KingKopitar
This seems like the most stressful Dodgers spring training I've experienced in my youngish life.
2008-03-25 13:48:44
149.   Eric Enders
Ryan Braun's defense -- the gift that keeps on giving.
2008-03-25 13:52:19
150.   ToyCannon
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-03-25 13:53:25
151.   Bob Timmermann
That's what you can expect from a Granada Hills High alum.

Good fielders go to Kennedy. Just like noted glove Garret Anderson.

2008-03-25 13:54:29
152.   Jon Weisman
148 - I haven't felt particularly stressed during this Spring Training. I've been bummed by the injuries, but stressed? Not too much. I'm not living or dying with the left field debate. I think I was more stressed in the DePo era.

As someone brought up a few days ago - March '86 when Guerrero broke his ankle - that was like the year ending before it began.

2008-03-25 13:54:31
153.   ROC
BTW, so far in today's JP grounded out while Furcal doubled. Loney has RBI singled and swiped a base.

Maryvale is supposed to be the worst stadium in the Cactus League, expect TJ to confirm this.

I'm kinda in the neighborhood today...I may pop over there for an hour seeing how I was denied a firsthand Minotaur sighting last night on Surprise. He's again rumored to appear.

2008-03-25 13:55:08
154.   cargill06
penny continues to pitch well and tear the cover off the ball. pierre continues to struggle, and it sure is nice to see furcal play this well.

149 what did braun do?

2008-03-25 13:56:45
155.   Marty
134 I remember listening to that game while I was doing (for once) my homework.
2008-03-25 13:57:10
156.   trainwreck
That did not stop Hope Solo from appearing in the new Nike commercial.
2008-03-25 13:57:19
157.   Eric Enders
149 Lost a fly ball in the sun. After which Pierre hit into a double play (the non-Timmermann approved kind).
2008-03-25 13:58:12
158.   bhsportsguy
If DodgerThoughts could have existed in 1966 (which would have been hard since its author was not born yet), the off-season would have been all about the unbelievable demand by Koufax and Drysdale for a 3-year 1.05 million contract to be split between them.
2008-03-25 13:58:48
159.   ToyCannon
If Abreu is going to play 3rd base while Nomar is out, shouldn't he be playing 3rd base now? It is not like he's got a lot of games under his belt at the position.
2008-03-25 13:59:35
160.   KG16
140 - I had the threepiphany a few years back when some announcer type said "they're three pointers have been killing the other side" and they showed that the team had made something like six three pointers. My thought was, "well, if it wasn't for the three point line, they'd have only scored six fewer points."
2008-03-25 13:59:51
161.   fiddlestick
147--Looks like you have more counting stats on offense vs. pitching and 2 of them on the pitching side rarely ever happen anymore anyway.
2008-03-25 14:01:21
162.   ToyCannon
I only get stressed when crazy moves are actually made, not talked about. Whatever happens in April can be fixed as long as they don't do something rash.
Come July when Ned trades our starting 3rd baseman for a middle relief pitcher, that is when I get stressed.
2008-03-25 14:01:28
163.   cargill06
161 that's basically what i was arguing word for word. just wanted to confirm i was right ;-)
2008-03-25 14:01:52
164.   fiddlestick
159-- Since Abreu played 3rd last year, they're probably comfortable with what he'll do there while there's been much less time to observe Dewitt against bigleaguers.
2008-03-25 14:01:57
165.   Eric Enders
158 I'm assuming you would have sided with O'Malley on that one. ;)
2008-03-25 14:04:30
166.   KG16
I have a question: what use, really is park effect?

By which I mean: how much of it is chicken/egg analysis? How much of it has to do with how a team is constructed? If, for example, the Red Sox had Pierre playing left field and Erstad DHing, how would it effect the number?

I'm just wondering if it's really that valuable of a stat. I mean, would Dodger stadium have been such a pitcher's park if not for Koufax, Drysdale, Sutton, Orel, and Fernando over the years, even with all the foul territory?

2008-03-25 14:05:51
167.   bhsportsguy
165 Darn straight, those guys have no right to ask for a 3-year contract, if the manager can get a one year contract, so can those guys.

Its not like they could go to the highest bidder someday. I have their rights until their arms blow out.

2008-03-25 14:06:57
168.   Eric Enders
166 It is not affected by the composition of the team. If it was, you're right, it would be pretty useless.
2008-03-25 14:07:48
169.   regfairfield
166 It doesn't effect it at all. It compares how players play at the park versus how they play away from it. If Pierre and Erstad had a .700 OPS at home and .600 OPS on the road, it would be be the same as if they had a .992 OPS at home and an .850 OPS on the road.
2008-03-25 14:08:18
170.   Eric Stephen
November 7, 1991: I still remember hearing the news. I was a sophomore at Palm Springs High, and I went after school to the mall with friends. I stopped in at the hairstylist shop where my Mom worked (probably to ask for money), and her first words to me were, "When I tell you the news, you're going to be sick."

I was shell-shocked. At 15, my entire sporting fandom included Magic at the forefront. I walked around in a daze after that, and for some reason headed back to the school to get something. I ran into the PSHS track coach and in-school suspension cheif John Carlos -- the former Olympic sprinter -- and delivered the sobering news about Magic. What I saw in his face mirrored how I felt.

I think I wore a different Magic Johnson t-shirt every day for a week after that.

There's no way I thought Magic would still be with us five years later, let alone 16+ years later. Amazing.

Was Gar Heard's shot from that far out? I seem to remember it being from 18-20 feet or so. "Wont start till it's touched. Gar Heard turnaround iiiis....GOOD!"

2008-03-25 14:08:53
171.   Gen3Blue
Just from a glance at the box, Penny must be throwing a gazillion pitches.
2008-03-25 14:09:17
172.   bhsportsguy
166 Dodger Stadium was much different now than when it was first built, CF was ten feet further away and there was more foul territory.
2008-03-25 14:09:50
173.   Jon Weisman
170 - I wrote the article in the Daily News that night about the talkradio reaction. Wasn't much of a story. It was an unbelievable day.
2008-03-25 14:11:02
174.   Eric Enders
170 It's weird to think that the man pitching for the Dodgers right now has no memory of Magic Johnson playing basketball, because he was only three years old on November 7, 1991.

(Well, there was that comeback, but our Minotaur was pretty young then too.)

2008-03-25 14:12:11
175.   Eric Enders
Fastball, strike, outside corner
Ball high and away
Fouled back, strike two
Change-up, pop-up to LF. One out.
2008-03-25 14:12:49
176.   Bob Timmermann
My mother called me at work to tell me the news. She didn't like to call her sons at work because she thought it would be embarrassing to them. This was a rare exception.
2008-03-25 14:14:14
177.   Eric Enders
Two balls.
Curveball called strike one.
Pitch in the dirt. 3-1.
Fouled back. 3-2.
Fastball knocked for a double down the RF line
2008-03-25 14:16:16
178.   ToyCannon
Black Power John Carlos of the Mexico City Olympics?

Doing Suspension Duty at PSH, how sad.

2008-03-25 14:16:57
179.   Eric Enders
Fastball high and outside. 1-0.
Fastball fouled back. 1-1.
Another foul. 1-2.
Curve just outside. 2-2.
Fastball fouled. 2-2.
Fastball, called strike three.
2008-03-25 14:18:09
180.   Marty
A few weeks before the news hit Magic pulled up across the street from a restaurant I was eating at in Hermosa Beach. An obviously surgery-enhanced woman ran out of a nail parlor to give him a big hug and long kiss. I remember thinking after I heard the news "I wonder what that woman is thinking now".
2008-03-25 14:18:33
181.   ToyCannon
Back then it always seemed to be a death sentence. I'll never forgive Karl Malone.
2008-03-25 14:21:23
182.   Eric Enders
Rickie Weeks takes a ball. 1-0.
Foul pop-up. 1-1.
Called strike. 1-2.
Curveball fouled. 1-2.
Fastball just inside. 2-2.
Low and outside. 3-2.
Foul on a 96 mph fastball. Still 3-2.
Curve, called strike three.

Another scoreless inning for the Minotaur.

2008-03-25 14:21:26
183.   Sushirabbit
Does MLB audio keep stopping for you guys?

And, along the same lines, does anyone know when Extra Innings actually starts? Seems like last year I got most pre-season games, but this year none of them are available yet.

2008-03-25 14:22:03
184.   MollyKnight
Ethier is more valuable off the bench than Pierre for the same reason Ethier is more valuable in the starting line-up than Pierre.

He's a better player.

2008-03-25 14:22:44
185.   Eric Enders
183 Extra Innings on my cable system has always started on Opening Day and has never included any pre-season games.
2008-03-25 14:24:50
186.   GMac In The 909
79 I find it best to stay out of other people's affairs.
2008-03-25 14:24:59
187.   bhsportsguy
I was at work and was listening to a sports radio show when they came in and said they had a special press conference from the Forum, the Laker season was just about to begin, they had picked up Sedale Threatt to go along with Scott, Worthy, Perkins, Campbell, Divac and of course Magic and everything seemed to point towards another run to the Finals.

And then, the LA Sports entered a dark time, with few bright spots for the rest of the decade.

2008-03-25 14:27:01
188.   bhsportsguy
181 There was a lot of ignorance out there, I wonder how many of our younger readers know that the reason the NBA stops play when a cut exposes blood on the court all stems from those types of comments that Malone made (stupidly and offensive) about Magic's condition.
2008-03-25 14:27:20
189.   Eric Stephen
Black Power John Carlos of the Mexico City Olympics?

The same! He was a really cool guy, always had good stories. He really should have won the silver medal, but the look of shock on his face when Aussie Peter Norman (the Mike Myers to Smith/Carlos's Kanye West) passed him was classic.

I should have heard more of John Carlos's stories, but I was never in detention. :)

2008-03-25 14:27:27
190.   Bluebleeder87
131 like in that game were Ethier hit the go ahead HR in chicago he came in throwing bee-bee's toping out at 96MPH & throwing mean sliders as well
2008-03-25 14:27:30
191.   KingKopitar
152 Yeah, you're probably right. I guess it's probably just because I'm hoping Billingsley and Kemp can bust out, plus with the whole Ethier thing and Laroche's injury, plus the Minotaur lurking in the background, I feel anxious. I'm sure I'll be fine once Raffy hits that steps up to the plate on Monday.
2008-03-25 14:27:34
192.   ToyCannon
You speak the Gospel Truth
Sing it aloud to the congregation
Shout it aloud to the nonbelievers
2008-03-25 14:28:12
193.   bhsportsguy
I remember when dentists and hygentists starting wearing gloves and masks while they treated you.

A lot of things changed during that time.

2008-03-25 14:28:54
194.   Eric Enders
Having John Carlos as your high school track coach would be like the equivalent of... what? George Brett as your high school baseball coach? It just seems so far out there.
2008-03-25 14:30:05
195.   bhsportsguy
184 I really like your new layout on your blog.
2008-03-25 14:31:09
196.   underdog
156 True. She must have atoned for her sins. Or, you know, it doesn't hurt that she's, well, a total babe.
2008-03-25 14:31:28
197.   bhsportsguy
194 I think Ryan Leaf is coaching high school football in the middle of nowhere.
2008-03-25 14:33:47
198.   Eric Stephen
I think the Warriors' announcers called a similar timeout an "infectious disease control stoppage". I couldn't tell if they were joking.
2008-03-25 14:33:56
199.   Eric Enders
Minotaur Update

Gabe Kapler. Grounder to third. One out.

2008-03-25 14:35:33
200.   Eric Enders
Prince Fielder. Called strike one.
Swinging strike three.

(Steiner fails to explain the superpowers which allow the Minotaur to strike out batters on only two pitches.)

Ryan Braun. First-pitch grounder to Hu. Three outs.

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-03-25 14:38:06
201.   Eric Enders
Pierre leads off with a bunt double.

Take THAT, Ethier!

2008-03-25 14:38:23
202.   bhsportsguy
A massive ground ball double to short RF for JP.
2008-03-25 14:39:13
203.   bhsportsguy
201 Oh it was a bunt, I just caught Steiner saying right field.
2008-03-25 14:39:24
204.   ToyCannon
197 Thought I spotted him in the Simpsons movie so he must be working in Springfield.
2008-03-25 14:40:01
205.   El Lay Dave
194 Bret Saberhagen coached a season at Calabasas High. Not surprisingly, his son was there also.
2008-03-25 14:40:09
206.   underdog
So 2 innings, 3 Ks, 1 hit, no runs, for Kershaw? I'm following via the box score...

He's a pretty decent pitcher, this Minotaur fellow.

2008-03-25 14:42:38
207.   ToyCannon
Pierre is thinking right now that he saw Joey Gathright put on a show yesterday that he could only dream of. Yet Joey is a 4th outfielder.

But I'm standing on 2nd base and I'm going to make 40 million over the next 4 years while Joey will be lucky to get a major league pension. Life is good

2008-03-25 14:42:40
208.   bhsportsguy
Pierre scores on Repko's hit.

Probably something we will not see a lot of in LA this year.

2008-03-25 14:42:40
209.   cargill06
204 he's coaching QB's for some college in Texas and he's also their golf coach.
2008-03-25 14:44:03
210.   cargill06
when is bills slated to pitch next? i'm assuming fri so he'll have normal rest for wed? i'm worried.
2008-03-25 14:44:26
211.   silverwidow
Thanks for the Kershaw updates.
2008-03-25 14:46:59
212.   Eric Enders
Bill Hall takes a high inside fastball. 1-0.
Ball high. 2-0.
Called strike. 2-1.
Fouled back. 2-2.
Curve, swinging strike three.

The nice thing about having a mythical pitcher is the batters can't see his pitches either.

2008-03-25 14:47:32
213.   cargill06
lets take a look at kershaws spring line
9 ip, 7 hits, 1 er, 2 BB's, 10 k's
2008-03-25 14:47:46
214.   bhsportsguy
Another K for the unnamed one (sorry Bob, don't mean to steal something from you but hey, that team is long gone for the time being).
2008-03-25 14:48:09
215.   cargill06
212 oops i thought he was done
213 9.1 IP, 7 hits, 1 er, 2 BB's, 11 k's
2008-03-25 14:48:22
216.   bhsportsguy
My recollection is that the Brewers strike out a lot.
2008-03-25 14:48:31
217.   Eric Enders
Fastball high. 1-0.
Curveball, strike. The crowd audibly says "ooooh!" in unison.
Fastball high. 2-1.
Fouled back. 2-2.
Fasatball high and inside. 3-2.
Fastball high. Ball four.
2008-03-25 14:49:43
218.   El Lay Dave
I was seven years old during the Mexico City Olympics so my memories of them are dim at best, but since my father was a faithful newspaper reader, I do remember the famous photo of John Carlos and Tommie Smith. In retrospect it can be hard to believe the furor that arose; I think it would controversial today, but the IOC wouldn't and couldn't make the demands it did then.

Peter Norman, who wore an Olympics Project for Human Rights badge on the medal dais, died in 2006; Carlos and Smith were pallbearers.

2008-03-25 14:49:58
219.   Eric Enders
Counsell fouls back the first pitch. 0-1.
Curve, strike. 0-2.
Strike three swinging on a fastball. Two outs.
2008-03-25 14:51:05
220.   bhsportsguy
216 He strikes out the guy that Vin reminds was a Dodger for a short period of time.

The Brewers struck out the 6th most in the NL last year after finishing 2nd most the previous 2 seasons.

2008-03-25 14:52:23
221.   Eric Enders
Ball one to Mike Rivera.
Fastball, swing and miss. 1-1.
Changeup, swing and miss. 1-2.
Foul grounder. Still 1-2.
Kershaw picks off Corey Hart, but Lucille II drops it.
2008-03-25 14:52:34
222.   natepurcell
So annoying Clayton wasn't in Tucson on Sunday.
2008-03-25 14:52:47
223.   bhsportsguy
221 I guess Sweeney got the day off.
2008-03-25 14:54:01
224.   bhsportsguy
222 I read where it is believed that Kershaw will never pitch in Vegas, when he is ready to leave AA, he will go to the Dodgers.
2008-03-25 14:54:26
225.   Eric Enders
In the dirt to Rivera. 2-2.
Fastball. Ooohs and aaahs. Fouled off. 2-2.
Curve in the dirt. 3-2.
Swing and miss on a fastball, strike three.
Minotaur strikes out the side.

3 IP, 1 H, O R, 1 BB, 5 K.

2008-03-25 14:54:41
226.   Eric Enders
Actually make that 6K.
2008-03-25 14:54:50
227.   bhsportsguy
That guy is boring, strikes out the side twice, this time against guys who will be earning MLB salaries next week.
2008-03-25 14:55:03
228.   silverwidow
Isn't that 6 Ks?
2008-03-25 14:55:08
229.   natepurcell

I read that too.

2008-03-25 14:55:43
230.   KG16
168 , 169 - see, that doesn't make sense to me. If I'm reading the formula correctly ((HomeRS+HomeRA)/(HomeGs))/((AwayRS+AwayRA)/(AwayGs)), then it would seem to me that the make up of the the team would matter.

If you've got a line up that includes Pierre, Eckstein, and Erstad they're going to score less runs than a line up that includes ManRam, Tejada, and Big Papi. Similarly, if I have a rotation that includes Beckett, Penny, and Santana, they're going to give up fewer runs than a rotation that includes say, the Nationals rotation. So, a team with a powerful line up but a poor rotation would see their park effect go way up, no?

Along these same lines, I would think that the make up of the teams that would most commonly play a road game in your stadium would drastically affect the park effect (meaning teams within the division).

172 - I recognize that the stadium is much different than it use to be, if I was unclear, I apologize, but I was eluding to that.

2008-03-25 14:56:33
231.   natepurcell
So...when is he allowed to be real?
2008-03-25 14:56:39
232.   bhsportsguy
Anyone remember if the original Ramon Martinez was this highly anticipated as a prospect?
2008-03-25 14:56:47
233.   cargill06
225 woiuldn't that put him at 6 k's?
2008-03-25 14:57:03
234.   Eric Enders
And when he does become real, do we need a new nickname for him?
2008-03-25 14:59:22
235.   Eric Enders
232 Ramon was highly anticipated. But nobody in my lifetime has been as anticipated as Kershaw. You'd have to go back pretty far. Koufax? Drysdale? Pete Richert?
2008-03-25 14:59:45
236.   Marty
234 Public Enemy #1
2008-03-25 15:01:08
237.   Eric Enders
How does Gary Bennett, of all people, get picked off second base?
2008-03-25 15:02:03
238.   Dark Horse
236-"Public Enemy #1" is pretty great, but I'm thinking the Minotaur should stick. Kinda like Bison for Kemp, it just works somehow.
2008-03-25 15:02:52
239.   Eric Enders
And now Martin steals second standing up. This inning, in a nutshell, niftily illustrates the difference between Martin and Bennett.
2008-03-25 15:03:49
240.   cargill06
ok dodgers web site is reporting that saito threw a simulated game today and was OK. has anyone confirmed on any type of level the report that saito will be on the DL?
2008-03-25 15:04:03
241.   Eric Enders
We're pretty morbid with our nicknames here. Remember that the Minotaur (like all the Bison) dies in the end.
2008-03-25 15:04:27
242.   Marty
The California Wolverine is back:

2008-03-25 15:05:41
243.   bhsportsguy
235 If you think about the Dodger Rookie of the Year winners in LA for the last 30 or so years, you have Sutcliffe, Howe, Fernando, Sax, Karros, Piazza, Mondesi, Nomo, and Hollandsworth, maybe Mondesi was highly anticipated by Dodger fans (or at least me), Nomo certainly had a lot publicity as a Japanese import. But I think Eris is right, Kershaw has had the biggest buildup than anyone I can think of.
2008-03-25 15:06:36
244.   bhsportsguy
240 Actually Diamond Leung's blog just posed the question, no one said anything official.
2008-03-25 15:07:37
245.   Hythloday
238 - When I was listening to the first Kershaw appearance I swear I heard Vin referring to any curveball as Public Enemy #1 and before Kershaw came in. He attributed it to Campy. Am I crazy here? Not that that wouldn't be a great post-myth nickname for him. That or "12:30" or some curveball reference.
2008-03-25 15:07:45
246.   Marty
Maybe because he was such a disappointment, but Greg Brock seemed to have an even bigger buildup than Kershaw.
2008-03-25 15:09:52
247.   Hythloday
243 Since when did he become the god of discord?
2008-03-25 15:10:06
248.   Marty
How about Grabthar's Hammer?
2008-03-25 15:10:54
249.   Eric Enders
245 Yes, "Public Enemy #1" is a general nickname for any curveball. It's been around forever -- long enough, apparently, to fall out of use, and thus cause people to think Vin was cleverly making something up when really he was just using lingo from his childhood.
2008-03-25 15:11:20
250.   fanerman
Minotaur = Clayton's nickname.
Public Enemy #1 = Clayton's curveball's nickname.

How many pitches have nicknames? That's what makes it cool.

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-03-25 15:11:28
251.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 235

I used to think the anticipation surrounding Kershaw was roughly similar to the pre-injury Greg Miller. Miller, after all, was a true stud before he got hurt. But although he had a good spring last year (which was followed by a profoundly disappointing season), he never had this sort of absurdly dominant big league spring training. Jackson was hyped after he beat Johnson, but Kershaw's a lefty, and I don't think people were as impressed by his raw stuff as they are with Kershaw.

At this age, it really is astonishing. Among recent pitching prospects as a whole, the buzz surrounding him reminds me of when King Felix stepped on the scene in Seattle.

All that being said, he should still go down to AA and work on his control. Along with his changeup, which he did throw today. But if he keeps this up, the org. will really have no choice but to call him up earlier rather than later.


2008-03-25 15:12:09
252.   Bob Timmermann
Roger Clemens threw "Mr. Splitty."
2008-03-25 15:12:16
253.   fanerman
250 After reading 249 , nevermind.
2008-03-25 15:14:57
254.   Jacob L
How quickly they forget. The Vulcan Change.
2008-03-25 15:15:04
255.   Eric Enders
251 And Felix, after two good-not-great years, is considered a disappointment by some, which is a possibility we should probably prepare ourselves for just in case.

I still give Hernandez a 50/50 shot of making the Hall of Fame, though. It's just taken him a couple of years to assimilate.

2008-03-25 15:15:33
256.   KG16
250 - I seem to remember Charley Sheen having nicknames for his pitches in Major League II. That did not work out so well
2008-03-25 15:15:53
257.   Prescott Pete
A few Dodgers with big build up I recall:

Willy Crawford
Alan Foster
Bobby Valentine

2008-03-25 15:16:12
258.   fanerman
254 I didn't forget. I'm just saying, it's rare for a pitch to have a nickname. But, I guess it's not really a nickname.
2008-03-25 15:16:14
259.   Kevin Lewis
oh my, I almost forgot about my fantasy draft in 15 minutes
2008-03-25 15:17:57
260.   trainwreck
Never knew we had wolverines. Well that is cool.
2008-03-25 15:20:14
261.   Marty
260 Go into a cougar bar one of these days and yell WOLVERINE and see what happens.
2008-03-25 15:21:50
262.   El Lay Dave
220 Yep, the Brewers were 6th. There's not much difference between 3rd through 9th, so it would appear that the Minotaur was facing something roughly akin to league average. (This stat is worth so little; the Dodgers, Cards and Giants struck out the least.)

2007 NL:
FLA 1332
SDP 1229
PHI 1205
COL 1152
ATL 1149
MIL 1137
PIT 1135
WSN 1128
CIN 1113
ARI 1111
CHC 1054
HOU 1043
NYM 981
STL 909
SFG 907
LAD 864

2008-03-25 15:21:52
263.   Eric Enders
Randy Johnson's slider is called "Mr. Snappy."
2008-03-25 15:24:23
264.   Eric Enders
If we're talking position players, I think Adrian Beltre's buildup was in the same ballpark as Kershaw's. Maybe a bit less.
2008-03-25 15:27:42
265.   cargill06
am i just spoiled by past teams sucsess in the pen?

but i think the bull-pen maybe a major pain in the ass this year espically if saito doesn't regain his velocity.

2008-03-25 15:28:58
266.   Hythloday
With all the young/new arms I think we could do theme nicknames. Clearly Kershaw is Luke Skywalker to Broxton's Chewbacca or Kuroda's R2-D2. I'm also for any naming theme in which Billingsley becomes Karl Hungus.
2008-03-25 15:29:03
267.   Eric Enders
Steinday are now praising Juan Pierre for grounding out to first.
2008-03-25 15:30:09
268.   underdog
Hmm, what was that we were saying about Seanez in an earlier thread?

So... who else can fill that last bullpen spot I wonder...

2008-03-25 15:31:59
269.   underdog
I mean, earlier in this thread, that is.

Meloan, paging Jon Meloan...

Actually, does Greg Jones have a shot? I've only seen him pitch twice this spring but both times he looked pretty solid.

2008-03-25 15:32:10
270.   bhsportsguy
265 The Dodgers are behind in their bullpen configuration because of Saito's calves and that they had to have to split the squad up so the team did not get a chance to cut-down for the season (and they are bringing everyone in camp to LA so they are still building up arm strength.

Because of that, you have not seen guys pitch in their normal spots.

2008-03-25 15:32:14
271.   Eric Enders
Meloan would be a nice option in the pen if the Dodgers could ever bring themselves to stop screwing around with him.

I hope he likes Chinatown.

"You're a starter!"
"You're a reliever!"
"A starter!"
"A reliever!"
"A starter AND a reliever!"

2008-03-25 15:32:48
272.   bhsportsguy
269 To be fair, Repko dropped a fly ball that started the whole thing.
2008-03-25 15:35:18
273.   Eric Enders
Prepare yourselves for a shock... Tony Jackson has a new post up complaining about the facilities at the ballpark.
2008-03-25 15:35:42
274.   cargill06
265 man, sort of plagerising from an earlier. i thought i'd get some love for pain in the ass and saito in the same sentence.
2008-03-25 15:36:39
275.   underdog
271 Heh.
Meloan: When can I be on the major league team already?
Colletti: "You're a very nosy fellow, kitty cat. Huh? You know what happens to nosy fellows?"
2008-03-25 15:47:21
276.   natepurcell
I don't really care about pitchers W-L totals but I found this pretty impressive:

Penny pitched a career-high 208 innings in 2007. His 32-13 record over the past two years is the best in the league. His 20-3 mark during the first half of the past two seasons is the best since Randy Johnson went 17-2 in 1996-97. He finished third in last year's Cy Young voting.

2008-03-25 15:48:28
277.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh

Did it involve elevators? :)


2008-03-25 15:49:09
278.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 276

If Penny didn't have that arm injury right after DePo acquired him, who knows how things would have worked out for the franchise.


2008-03-25 15:52:21
279.   El Lay Dave
Ethier sent up to PH with one-on, one-out, down one, and singles. Should I be worried that he is demonstrating his value on the bench???
2008-03-25 15:53:16
280.   Humma Kavula
If we name either Kershaw or his pitch Public Enemy #1, can we make his logo a grapefruit?

2008-03-25 15:53:20
281.   cargill06
279 jeez does ethier ever get out? does pierre ever get on?
2008-03-25 15:54:56
282.   natepurcell

Pierre can come off the bench and hit singles as well.

Actually, shouldn't that make him a more valuable bench player? Since most of the time, all the team would need from a PH is a single or so and maybe the ability to steal bases.

Seriously, we can turn this around and show that Pierre, with his skillset, is better suited for the bench (besides showing that he sucks).

2008-03-25 15:56:28
283.   cargill06
282 actually i would believe he'd be more valuable late inning hitter with a runner on and less than 2 outs. he won't ground into a DP and with a runner on 3rd or 2nd he'll put the ball in play and probably move him over, unless the OF plays him at the CO-ED line.
2008-03-25 15:58:39
284.   Humma Kavula
I think I figured out the whole reason why the Dodgers think that Pierre is better suited to start. Hear me out:

The Dodgers think they are playing in a 5x5 fantasy league. They need Pierre to start to boost their steals and BA.

2008-03-25 16:00:36
285.   Eric Stephen
Not to mention that with Pierre as PH, you can pick and choose when to deploy him. In the Bill James Goldmine, it was mentioned Pierre leading off an inning was really good (forgot the number of runs per inning the Dodgers scored; book is at home).

If Torre can pick and choose to have Pierre lead off the 8th or 9th inning of a close game, his excellent baserunning can be much more of a factor.

2008-03-25 16:01:15
286.   ToyCannon
I am hoping that when Joe Torre looks at Andre Ethier he sees a lot of Paul O Neil without the tantrums.
2008-03-25 16:03:41
287.   El Lay Dave
286 I've been thinking Paul O'Neill too. Funny.
2008-03-25 16:03:53
288.   fanerman
Pierre would also be a valuable pinch-runner. Steal a clutch base, get into scoring position.

Really, Pierre's game is suited to playing for one run, which is only most viable late in the game.

2008-03-25 16:07:39
289.   fanerman
This might be easier if it were basketball and we could convince Pierre he'd be the best 6th man in the league. Hmm. Where's my Pierre-Lakers crossover jersey?
2008-03-25 16:08:09
290.   Eric Stephen
Man, I hated Paul O'Neill. Even in his pre-Yankee days I didn't care for him.
2008-03-25 16:08:22
291.   El Lay Dave
282 I was being sarcastic, of course.

283 Which is why I didn't like the strategy today in the top of the 8th. Down one, Young on 2nd after a double, no out and JP tries to sacrifice, TWICE, unsuccessfully, then grounds to first. I don't know, obviously, if he is sacrificing on his own or if the bench called for it, but I don't like it. JP should be trying to hit the ball to the right-side attempting to get a hit (which he gets 29% of the time) and settling for a "productive out" at worst. With a hit, he's aboard as the tying run.

2008-03-25 16:08:44
292.   El Lay Dave
... er, aboard as the go-ahead run.
2008-03-25 16:14:39
293.   Xeifrank
Juan Pierre was the clutchiest basestealer in the NL West last year. Like mentioned earlier, he'd be a great candidate for coming off the bench to pinch run in a high leverage steal situation. Last year the average leverage index on a Juan Pierre stolen base attempt was 1.221 (1.0 is average leverage index), the average LI on a caught stealing was 0.96 and the average LI on a successful SB was 1.295. The problem for Juan is, he doesn't get on base enough to have enough of these high leverage attempts on his own. Coming off the bench he can use someone elses OBP ability to get on base at an opportune time to steal.
vr, Xei
2008-03-25 16:15:54
294.   ToyCannon
Once acquired by the Yankee's from age 30 - 35 he never had on OPS+ < 123 and from age 24-36 never had an OPS < 100. Hard to do when you've accumulated 2100 plate appearances against LHP and only posted a 699 OPS.
2008-03-25 16:16:11
295.   bhsportsguy
Not that he needs the pub but here is a link to Neal Pollack talking about the all-you-can-eat experience at Dodger Stadium.

2008-03-25 16:16:56
296.   ToyCannon
If only baseball had a 10th man award, then we could get JP on board and reward his late inning skills.
2008-03-25 16:18:45
297.   ToyCannon
I saw KC advertising the all you can eat yesterday during the broadcast. Evidently Young McCourt was on to something. At least in American Indulgence the Dodgers are at the lead of the pack.
2008-03-25 16:19:06
298.   underdog
Ah, I see that delightful fellow who likes to soil the good names of both Dodger Thoughts and a Big Lebowski reference is at it again on Tony Jax's blog. Ah well. I don't know why I even read Jackson's whine about the ballpark, yet alone the comments under it.
2008-03-25 16:19:33
299.   Eric Enders
The American League has a 10th man award. They call it the Silver Slugger for DH.
2008-03-25 16:19:53
300.   fanerman
295 I heard that on NPR today.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2008-03-25 16:22:36
301.   underdog
So do they call the game before extra innings? (Since the Dodgers need to leave and it's meaningless.) I can't tell just from checking the box score if it's still going on.
2008-03-25 16:22:38
302.   Jim Hitchcock
Paul O'Neill was a Dodger killer.

295 , 300 I thought that writing of throwing up in an AM-PM parking lot was a nice touch.

2008-03-25 16:26:12
303.   Jim Hitchcock
So, who is the real Karl Hungus?
2008-03-25 16:26:36
304.   bhsportsguy
301 Yep, the Dodgers had a plane to catch so the game ended in a tie.
2008-03-25 16:31:04
305.   overkill94
303 Whoever he is, he's soiling my perfectly awesome e-mail address!
2008-03-25 16:34:37
306.   overkill94
I can't speak to the actual quality of the Brewers' spring training park, but I did have an awesome time the game I went to a few years back. It was a night game but we parked our RV in their huge grass lot in the morning and spent the whole day playing catch, drinking, BBQing, and collecting home run balls from their batting practice. The best part was that they let us leave our RV there all night so none of us drunkos had to drive anywhere.
2008-03-25 16:37:50
307.   Gen3Blue
This could be a wishful fantasy, but I read Bill James Goldmine on how beneficial JP was when he led off an inning( and of course the flipside, how detrimental he was, especially batting third) and how there was no control on when he batted late in the game. Coming off the bench he could be a late inning close game supersub, batting lead-off or coming in if anyone made first or second. I know there is controversy over if this kind of base-running threat is more distracting to the pitcher or the batter, but I bet in a late inning pressure situation, a smart runner, coach, and manager could make this devastating to a the set-up man or closer.

In the end of this fantasy, so many teams are looking for this kind of player, that JP could call his future and would be happy to stay a Dodger.

2008-03-25 16:44:09
308.   Neal Pollack
Listening to Steinday praising Pierre for grounding out to third made me sick. There is a fogy conspiracy inside the organization.
2008-03-25 16:50:17
309.   underdog
308 Sicker than an all-you-can-eat buffet at the ballpark, though?
2008-03-25 16:51:26
310.   bhsportsguy
308 But they also remarked on how hot Ethier was too.

Jon Heyman of CNNSI is saying on the radio right now (on Petros and Money) that he has not spoken to any scout who thinks Pierre is a better player than Ethier and that Ethier needs to start.

He also says how JP is a good guy, blah blah, makes a lot of money but in the end, Ethier will help you win more games.

2008-03-25 16:53:29
311.   bhsportsguy
308 Did you see that the Dodgers estimated that the food costs for each attendee in the All-You-Can-Eat seats was $18.00 so they cleared everything above that (average $17.00 or less depending on ticket price).
2008-03-25 17:05:51
312.   ibleedbloo
311 I think that cost was more than just food. I believe that price also included staff and I would even bet ticket price is mixed in there.

The food cost on Dodger Dogs, nachos, and soda is pennys. They are raking it in out there.

2008-03-25 17:06:46
313.   El Lay Dave
310 But they also remarked on how hot Ethier was too.

Really? I thought that sentiment was solely the opinion of teenage female Dodger fans. Maybe cougar Dodger fans too.

2008-03-25 17:11:33
314.   Jacob L
312 Staff costs? Does that include outfielders? Lets see, once we've cleared the cost of soda, dogs, nuts, nachos, plumbing, ushers, security, ticket takers, Juan Pierre, and Andruw Jones, the rest is pure profit!
2008-03-25 17:20:17
315.   gpellamjr
What did Steinday say in praise of Pierre's grounding out?
2008-03-25 17:25:43
316.   El Lay Dave
315 I suspect that's about moving the runner over with no outs, the situation I mentioned in 283 .

Am I way off on 283? I would swear that outside of JP, I rarely, if ever, see non-pitchers sacrifice in that situation. Moving over the tying run at home or winning run on the road I've seen, not the tying run on the road. Or is "play to tie at home, to win on the road" just a dumb, old-time maxim?

2008-03-25 17:26:10
317.   bhsportsguy
315 I don't remember, something like the ground ball to 1st was as good as a bunt. He did move the runner to 3B with only one out.

BTW, Saito threw a simulated game, 25 pitches, today and he is scheduled to pitch 1 inning in Anaheim on Thursday.

2008-03-25 17:28:35
318.   bhsportsguy
316 I don't know about that.
2008-03-25 17:28:59
319.   68elcamino427
Could Karl Hungus really be Bill Plaschke?
I'd bet a trashcan on it!
2008-03-25 17:35:24
320.   bigcpa
308 On Dodger Talk today Josh Suchon played the Kevin Baxter angle saying that Juan Pierre's game is to get 700 ab with 200 hits and 100 runs. He can't do THAT when he's on the bench. Ethier is a guy who can give you that late inning clutch double off the bench.
2008-03-25 17:37:33
321.   Dark Horse
320-He can't lead the Western World in outs while he's on the bench either. Why do these people never think of that?
2008-03-25 17:45:38
322.   68elcamino427
Juan Pierre's future is as a late inning specialist.
Example:8th inning, Dodgers tied or behind by one run, Kent singles with no outs.
Who should come in to run for the old man?
The late inning specialst, of course!
Same situation, but the pitcher is due to lead off.
Who ya gonna hit? The late inning specialst of course!
Juan Pierre can greatly enhance his value to a championship team, if he will embrace this role.
The late inning specialist.
It's that time of the game and the crowd begins the chant, "We want Juan!, We want Juan! ..."
2008-03-25 17:47:37
323.   Jon Weisman

Clayton Kershaw is dead to ToyCannon. Who knew?

2008-03-25 17:50:52
324.   Bob Timmermann
And we should remind him of this often.
2008-03-25 18:15:44
325.   Samuel
So I'm driving home from work today and I'm listening to KNBR and the radio hosts were wondering if the Giants' signings of Dave Roberts and Randy Winn to long-ish contracts would have been different if NedCo were still in SF. I felt like calling in and reminding them that he signed Juan Pierre.
2008-03-25 18:40:52
326.   Bob Timmermann
Probably not a great time to poll people here, but:
1) Has anyone here ever read Robert Caro's "The Power Broker"?
2) Has anyone here ever actually finished the book?
2008-03-25 18:42:21
327.   El Lay Dave
326 1. No. 2. Academic.
2008-03-25 18:48:53
328.   Gen3Blue
323 Shame on you Cannon!

322 Your with me (307). The trouble is we may be too deep in fantasyland thinking this could actually happen. I have been accused of occasionally getting manic or euphoric.

2008-03-25 18:55:09
329.   raygu
I just read for the 2nd time in a week that Chad Billingsley is hiding an injury, or said another way, that the Dodgers are hiding his injury.
Has anyone else heard this? If that's the case, I can see Kershaw up as soon as he goes down.
But, if true, this news sucks.
2008-03-25 19:09:47
330.   El Lay Dave
329 See 125 - 135 .
2008-03-25 19:20:08
331.   68elcamino427
Can this be the beginning of the new reality for JP?
There are positives aplenty.
Can we calculate how many more wins per season he is worth to the team when used in this role?
I'll bet it's more than as a starter if that means Ethier or any other player of that ilk is sitting in JP's stead.
JP can bank his pay and extend his career well into his 40's if he can maitain his legs (no problem for this workaholic).
JP will be hailed, rather than reviled, as "The Late Inning Specailist"!
Juan Pierre steals another win for the Dodgers!
"We want Juan! ... We want Juan! ..."
2008-03-25 19:21:42
332.   raygu
I heard Olney reported the Billz injury, and the fantasy guys are running with it.
2008-03-25 19:25:30
333.   LogikReader

Neal Pollack reminds me of a friend of mine... The wine and cheese kind of guy. Neal has obviously missed the point of going to Dodger Stadium... or sports for that matter.

2008-03-25 19:33:50
334.   Gen3Blue
331 Oh that this could be true.
2008-03-25 19:37:16
335.   overkill94
332 What possible reason would the Dodgers have to hide an injury at this point? Are they trying to keep the Vegas odds higher?

He looked fine when I watched him on Sunday and his fastball seemed to have plenty of life. His spring results would add fuel to the fire if you don't believe his change-up thing is true, but I'm still thinking this story is bogus.

2008-03-25 19:40:05
336.   natepurcell
Why does every major media analyst thing Billingsley is injured?

This could be as large as the Juan Pierre is good conspiracy.

2008-03-25 19:41:36
337.   natepurcell
I don't want to jinx anything but Billingsley has never shown any signs of an arm/shoulder injury in the minors. He pulled his oblique that late summer the year he was called up and had that little groin thing this spring but other than that, he has been fine.

I hate Will Carrol.

2008-03-25 20:03:57
338.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
RE: 337

What again was the rationale for Carroll's assessment of Billingsley? Wasn't it based on his increasing workload, or something like that? Or does Carroll claim to have a source inside the Dodgers training staff?

I for one continue to find the injury speculation unsupported, but Carroll usually seems to know what he's talking about. He was right, after all, about Green's shoulder injury. But like Nate said, Billingsley doesn't have an injury history, and I've never heard of anyone being worried about his mechanics.

2008-03-25 20:13:04
339.   El Lay Dave
338 ... I've never heard of anyone being worried about his mechanics.

Other than our own Bluebleeder87.

Predicting that ANY pitcher is an injury-risk is hardly a longshot.

2008-03-25 20:24:44
340.   Neal Pollack
333--Yes, I have entirely missed the point of sports, which is why I've been following the Dodgers for 31 years and go to 20-plus games a year.

Please tell me why the point of sports is to eat nachos until you vomit. And what's so "regular guy" about choking down a bunch of hot dogs? You can disagree with my POV about the all-you-can-eat seats. That's what it's there for. But don't go questioning my interest in/loyalty to the team.

2008-03-25 20:25:22
341.   Gen3Blue
I haven't commented for fear of jinxing. But this Bills thing has been around for several years, and I truly hope it is a few predicters who are trying to sustain there worthless projections.
2008-03-25 20:26:53
342.   El Lay Dave
333 I like my wine and cheese, but I've yet to find a wine that pairs nicely with aroma du ballpark, roasted peanuts and a Dodger Dog.
2008-03-25 20:28:20
343.   Gen3Blue
I also kind of hope Ethier and Bills read DT, and while I'm at it, why not Martin.

also in the 2nd to last line of 341 make that "their".

2008-03-25 20:33:03
344.   Neal Pollack
I would not drink wine at a baseball game. I would eat cheese anywhere. Even nacho cheese. In limited quantities.
2008-03-25 20:37:40
345.   Marty
Wine at a ballgame is crazy talk. It has to be beer. For me, about the only food to eat at a ball park is peanuts. Lots of peanuts.
2008-03-25 20:39:46
346.   El Lay Dave
344 Venezuelan Beaver Cheese?
2008-03-25 20:41:16
347.   El Lay Dave
345 What if it were Langer's, not Canter's, going into DS this season? Pastrami in your seat?
2008-03-25 20:43:15
348.   Jon Weisman
346 - You have zoomed up the commenting charts with that one.
2008-03-25 20:43:42
349.   Jon Weisman
Is there a better burnt food in the world than macaroni and cheese?
2008-03-25 20:44:10
350.   LogikReader

Hi Neal,

I apologize if for that comment. After reading it again, it appears to be a personal attack. I should know better than to make a DT Rule Violation like that.

Besides I completely agree with you on two fronts:

1) The Gordon Biersch Bratwurst is fantastic! I've had it a couple of times with the Garlic Fries and I enjoy it immensely.

2) Gorging myself is not my idea of taking myself out to the ball game.

Again, I hope you accept my mea culpa and I appreciate the note of clarification. I think I was trying to defend the Dodger Dog (which I happen to love, along with nacho cheese) and got carried away.

Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2008-03-25 20:47:54
351.   LogikReader

I will not, however, defend eating 10 Dodger Dogs in a row. Usually after two I'm spent!

2008-03-25 20:48:24
352.   Marty
It would be nice to see Langer's do that. They are infinitely superior to Canter's. But no deli can keep their quality up serving that many people. In either case I suspect the pastrami would be of the quality of Johnnie's or The Hat. Not bad, but not worth going out of your way.
2008-03-25 20:49:19
353.   Eric Stephen
In high school, I worked at In-N-Out, and occasionally some cheese corners would slip onto the grill and burn. They tested like Cheezits x100, and they were hot and fresh!

But, burnt mac & cheese is fantastic.

2008-03-25 20:52:22
354.   Neal Pollack
-350. Apology accepted. I was downtown today and had myself a Phillippe's. Some of the Chowhound types say it's overrated, but I was sorely tempted to buy a second one, especially after putting some hot mustard on the first. But the lines saved my gastrointestinal tract.

There's so much great food in L.A. Canter's is a start. I wouldn't eat it every game, but I'd definitely try the corned beef once.

2008-03-25 20:58:43
355.   underdog
346 Danish bimbo? Czech sheep's milk?

Brie, Roquefort, Pol le Veq, Port Salut, Savoy Aire, Saint Paulin, Carrier de lest, Bres Bleu, Bruson?

Camenbert, perhaps?

"Ah! We have Camenbert, yessir."

You do! Excellent.

"Yessir. It's..ah, it's a bit runny."

2008-03-25 21:01:35
356.   ToyCannon
My Apologies

Does this make up for it?

2008-03-25 21:01:57
357.   Marty
I was at Phillipe's today too. Great, as always.
2008-03-25 21:05:19
358.   trainwreck
Burnt marshmallows in smores for me.
2008-03-25 21:05:23
359.   LogikReader

Fun story, actually. The first time I ever had one of those delicious Canter's Corned Beef sandwiches was while waiting in line for my first taping of "The Price is Right."

I think it was about 3am in the morning and for an hour I was trying to figure out what to eat, so I asked my sister to hold my place in line as I went up Fairfax from CBS TV City.

What could I even eat at 3am? The only place that was open was this one restaurant with a huge neon sign that said "Canter's," so I decided to go in and check it out. I ordered a Corned Beef sandwich and a Pastrami Sandwich for my sister. I go back, start eating the sandwich, plastered with mustard of course, and start shouting "MMM! OH! YUM!" while everyone around me was still shivering in the cold.

I come to find out the next day that Canter's is a famous Los Angeles institution that has a reputation for these kind of sandwiches. Every time I go back there, I order the same thing.

2008-03-25 21:11:05
360.   LogikReader
And now, time for my story about Philippe's

I remember it like it was yesterday, but it was only two years ago. I took my nephew out to a game in June. It was a Sunday game against the Phils. The seats were in Field Level section 1 (still the best seats I ever had). However, before the game, we stopped over at Philippe's on the recommendation of this board and others. Man was that sandwich good. I think I had either the lamb or the roast beef dip. That mustard stays with you in more ways than one, and I think I had at least four ten cent lemonades. Unforgettable!

The Dodgers lost the game that day, and I remember Joe Beimel had a particularly bad outing, but I enjoyed every minute of it.

2008-03-25 21:12:45
361.   Bluebleeder87
yeah, Billz looked fine on sunday, crisp fastball & from what I understand he was working on his change that's why he got lit-up, Im almost positive non of that stuff is true...
2008-03-25 21:13:28
362.   Marty
I always have a jar of their mustard in my fridge.
2008-03-25 21:16:24
363.   Greg Brock
Some days I wish I would have become a rodeo clown. Or professional fisherman.
2008-03-25 21:16:42
364.   LogikReader
Alright, enough of me boring everybody with stories about my first visit to restaurants. I could go all day like this... I have stories about my first visit to Langer's, Pink's, Houston's, In-n-Out, Tommy's, and on and on and on.


I'll call my shot. I think Ethier starts on Opening Day and goes 1-3 with a walk.

2008-03-25 21:17:52
365.   Bob Timmermann
The Dodgers used five pitchers during that game:
and Beimel was the only one who had more than four letters in his last name.
The others were Sele, Baez, Seo, and Kuo.
2008-03-25 21:20:27
366.   Greg Brock
364 Phillipe's is killer. Last time I went was with BH before a game. I think we both had the French Dip.

Good stuff.

2008-03-25 21:24:26
367.   Icaros
I miss Phillipe's.
2008-03-25 21:24:50
368.   Xeifrank
337. Wil Carrol gave an interview saying that Kuroda and Schmidt might push Billingsley back to the bullpen by June, not knowing that the Dodgers had signed Loaiza as their 5th starter (last year). I wouldn't worry about what he says about the Dodgers, it seems like he hasn't done his homework on our team.
vr, Xei
2008-03-25 21:36:34
369.   overkill94
It seems that a lot of the pundits have it out for Billingsley. Between Carrol constantly Chicken Little-ing Billingsley's health status and Gurnick taking every chance to mention the mythical "maximum-effort delivery", you would think Chad ran over all their dogs or something.
2008-03-25 21:38:55
370.   LogikReader

Am I not mistaken in saying that Bills had a complete game near-shutout during his start in Houston? Where in the heck is all this backlash coming from?

2008-03-25 21:40:51
371.   regfairfield
I've forgotten by now, did Bob (or someone here) invent the Bison nickname, or was it already established?
2008-03-25 21:42:01
372.   Bob Timmermann
I believe Wikipedia will tell you the truth!

If you can't believe Wikipedia what else can we believe in?

2008-03-25 21:44:01
373.   regfairfield
372 In that case Kemp has fully acknowledged the nickname now.

2008-03-25 21:46:52
374.   natepurcell
HAHAHAHAHA that is...amazing.
2008-03-25 21:48:00
375.   Bob Timmermann
May 29, 2006 game chat:

Comment 116:
I'm guessing Bob would prefer "bison" over "buffalo."

'129. Disabled List
"Bison" would be a killer nickname for Kemp.

The sports world has been without without a Bison since Dele met a weird end in the South Pacific or something. Bison Kemp works for me. I second that motion.

2008-03-25 21:48:10
376.   regfairfield
374 If you didn't notice, Ethier is in another one.
2008-03-25 21:48:23
377.   natepurcell
He loves the Bison nickname.
2008-03-25 21:50:27
378.   Marty
That;s hilarious.
2008-03-25 21:51:34
379.   Greg Brock
That whole video is full of win.


2008-03-25 21:51:35
380.   KG16
"Excuses are like poems... they're for sissies, and no one likes to hear them."

I love You Tube.

Also, that looks like it was filmed at Corona del Mar High School. Or is there another high school with the mascot of "Sea Kings" in a hilly area?

2008-03-25 21:53:39
381.   Greg Brock
380 Palos Verdes High School. Father Brock's alma mater.
2008-03-25 21:57:43
382.   natepurcell
I love the Big Z one. He is just beaning kids left and right.
2008-03-25 22:00:23
383.   LogikReader

This series of videos is too cool for words.

2008-03-25 22:00:55
384.   natepurcell
Best in order:

Kemp, Zambrano, Ethier.

2008-03-25 22:01:10
385.   LogikReader
Who guest stars on the "Scrappyness" edition? I wonder...
2008-03-25 22:03:09
386.   KG16
383 - I have to say though, I'm a bit disappointed by the scrappyness one.
2008-03-25 22:03:26
387.   MC Safety
That Matt Kemp video was money.
2008-03-25 22:06:01
388.   Greg Brock
The thing about the Zambrano video (other than it's hilarity) is how much ridiculous run the ball has, even on a pitch he's throwing at 70 percent.

The ball he throws at 1:47 is sick.

2008-03-25 22:07:15
389.   Kevin Lewis
Now I want to eat Phillipe's. I have never been
2008-03-25 22:16:07
390.   Jon Weisman
2008-03-25 22:24:40
391.   Dodgers49
Shining start in desert

>> PHOENIX - Diamonds finally are being carved into a triangle-shaped piece of property some 30 miles west of downtown, a sign that the final phase of the Dodgers' move west is shaping up some 50 years after it began. <<

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