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About Jon
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1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
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7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
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The Immature Shall Inherit the Earth
2008-09-21 11:35
by Jon Weisman

One year ago this weekend, the Dodgers' chemical imbalance became a sensationalized news story - our local baseball team's version of Something-Gate. Suddenly, Dodger Stadium emerged as a branch office for the paragons of morality known as sports columnists to pass judgment and render virtual verdicts.

On September 20, 2007, Jeff Kent voiced his frustrations about the young Dodger players to the beat writers, and a day later, Bill Plaschke of the Times issued the following condemnation:

This youth movement has officially gotten old.

I thought it would work, I really did, but I admit today that I am wrong.

Now it's important to note that later in his column, Plaschke gave context to his assertion.

A youth movement works only when the veterans are flexible enough to move. The Dodgers veterans, it turns out, were not.

But that was buried in the column, typical of media coverage that for months and months locally and nationwide, stretching into the 2008 season, targeted the younger Dodger players, questioning their character at almost every opportunity.

It didn't matter that past and present Dodger veterans like Luis Gonzalez or Kent could be as prickly as anyone on the roster. It didn't matter that the younger players were the true talent center of the team. When the kids misbehaved, they were tearing down the Dodger franchise from the inside.

Those kids needed to be taught a lesson. Yeah, that's true. But instead of looking at it as, "Of course they need to be taught a lesson - they're kids," the prevailing attitude was, "Who do those kids think they are, believing in themselves when they need to be taught a lesson? How dare they be talented but occasionally immature!"

Over most of the past year, many of us lived in fear of the possibility that because they weren't Mother Teresa, some of these young Dodgers would be dumped in trade for less talented and/or decaying players who, however selfish or ill-behaved they were, had at least played in the majors long enough to earn the right to be selfish or ill-behaved. Essentially, this didn't happen. Several minor leaguers have been traded, but that's another story - relevant, but forgive me for not addressing it here.

Today, the Dodgers find themselves on the verge of heading to the playoffs led by a core that includes 2007 youngsters Matt Kemp, Andre Ethier, Russell Martin, Chad Billingsley and Jonathan Broxton - all of whom were simplistically lumped together despite their wide spectrum of behavioral traits - along with 2008 newcomers like Blake DeWitt, Cory Wade and Clayton Kershaw. The second-most important midseason pickup, 34-year-old Casey Blake, hasn't had an ill word to say about anyone, young or old. And the spiritual leader of the group is, by some accounts, the most immature player in baseball, Manny Ramirez, who has offended people before and will offend people again, but meanwhile has also not only been the most remarkably productive midseason acquisition in Dodger history, but has also provided practical guidance on hitting and emotion to the young Dodgers.

Everyone has talent. Everyone is flawed. How hard is it to look at the two side-by-side and take a big picture, instead of focusing only on the negative for some and the positive for others?

The Dodgers are happy now because they are winning. If the team were losing, no doubt Dodger insiders and outsiders would look at the behavior of Ramirez and the kids (who are rapidly becoming not such kids anymore) in a harsher light. There's no doubt that this is still an immature club in some ways. Immaturity isn't a virtue. But as a vice, it needs to be put in perspective. It's not always that harmful; in fact, sometimes it just doesn't matter at all.

* * *

Speaking of youth: Congrats to the young Tampa Bay Rays, along with the Chicago Cubs, on joining the Angels in clinching playoff spots. Those are the three teams I'll be rooting for if the Dodgers fall short.

Diamondbacks at Rockies, 12:05 p.m.

Giants at Dodgers, 1:10 p.m.

Comments (452)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2008-09-21 11:47:09
1.   Bob Timmermann
Oddly enough, very little has been heard out of Luis Gonzalez, who hasn't gotten all that much playing time in Florida and has had to sit behind a passel of kids.

I hope Cameron Maybin is watching his back though.

2008-09-21 11:48:57
2.   berkowit28
Very nice and apposite column, Jon. Good to remind us of this now. Minor point: somehow Matt Kemp is the only player, or person, who doesn't get a first name on his first mention. (Had you maybe edited out an earlier mention?)
2008-09-21 11:50:38
3.   KG16
2 - Kemp does not need a first name.
2008-09-21 11:51:15
4.   Branch Rickey
In life but even more so in baseball, we look at the results and then look for the reasons. If there was a result (like 8 wins in a row or 8 losses in a row) it must have been due to something meaningful. Maybe it's Manny's hair or Torre's choices or the kids' attitude. You see a game won or lost because a ball was fair or foul by 3 inches. In the postgame quotes, you have to answer for your loss or win as if it was a tottaly different game. The kids were never THE problem and neither were the veterans. The problem was just that the team (as a whole) wasn't quite good enough to win more games than the competition. Immature kids and grumpy vets don't matter if they are good enough. Neither are insane left fielders.
2008-09-21 11:53:18
5.   Bob Hendley
I wonder how Kent is adjusting to the new atmosphere in the clubhouse? Must be tough for the future HOF not to be the center of attention in what is likely to be his last hurrah. Knowing him, it just probably makes him grumpier and, I think, he likes being grumpy.
2008-09-21 11:54:51
6.   Linkmeister
4 Every evening our local news guy parrots the usual pap coming from the finance guys:

"The Dow went down 100 pts today due to interest rate fears."

I know darned well nobody can explain why markets go up or down each day, as distinct from seeing trends and accurately describing those, but it doesn't stop people from trying.

2008-09-21 11:55:23
7.   Bob Timmermann
Very true. There is a tendency for some to look for some insightful psychological reason for an outcome to a sporting event. But it's almost always the result of physical ability.

Even in more emotional sports like football, a coach can fire up his team as much as he wants, but if you've got players who aren't that skilled (e.g. UCLA), you are going to have a hard time winning.

2008-09-21 11:57:12
8.   Jon Weisman
2 - Yep, thanks.
2008-09-21 11:57:30
9.   Bob Timmermann
But a financial market is based on the buyers and sellers expectations of what something is worth or will be worth in the future. So events like interest rate changes or hurricanes can make a difference.

I don't know if a baseball team is the same as the Chicago BOT.

2008-09-21 11:57:49
10.   Jon Weisman
4 - Very well said.
2008-09-21 12:02:22
11.   Bob Hendley
9 - Only in that Dru has a pork belly as well. ;-)
2008-09-21 12:04:17
12.   Branch Rickey
6 That's actually the best example of what I'm talking about. Every day, every report on the market sums up why it went up or down with ONE reason when in fact there are a often a thousand reasons, most which will never be understood completely.
2008-09-21 12:08:29
13.   Bob Timmermann
Hey, I understand the financial markets inside and out. I've got a Nobel Prize to prove it.

Stole it from Paul Samuelson's house.

2008-09-21 12:09:08
14.   MollyKnight
875- from the last thread.

There are people on my couch three nights a week already. New York is a popular place to visit, and a really expensive place to get a hotel.

2008-09-21 12:09:43
15.   thinkblue88
Today at 1:30pm PT, will air Game 6 of the 1977 World Series. I know it was the Reggie Game, but I think it will be cool to watch a classic Dodgers game.
2008-09-21 12:12:13
16.   Branch Rickey
13 Awesome... let me know what's it's going to do tomorrow and I can finally retire!
2008-09-21 12:12:14
17.   Bob Timmermann
Two batters in, Arizona leads 1-0.
2008-09-21 12:14:21
18.   Eric Stephen
Not Evan Longoria gives up a 2-run double to Dunn. 3-0 AZ and counting, top 1.
2008-09-21 12:14:37
19.   Bob Timmermann
I only have perfect hindsight. I've dubbed this the Werth-Ross Paradigm.
2008-09-21 12:20:13
20.   D4P
Funny how the DBacks finally started playing well after they were essentially eliminated.

Andrew must be fake incredulous.

2008-09-21 12:21:19
21.   Alex41592
The 10th man is about to come to the plate for Arizona. You can form your own conclusion. Eek.
2008-09-21 12:24:50
22.   Bob Timmermann
Arizona hadn't played well at all after its fast start. They rode the wave of a Games Ahead Bubble. But the bubble burst and an infusion of Adam Dunn and David Eckstein wasn't enough.
2008-09-21 12:28:10
23.   Branch Rickey
22-19... Dang, you weren't kidding!
2008-09-21 12:30:16
24.   D4P
an infusion of Adam Dunn and David Eckstein wasn't enough

Dunn > Dunn + Eckstein

2008-09-21 12:32:20
25.   tethier
19, 22 - I hope next week at this time we're not talking about how accounts of the demise of the Arizona Diamondbacks have been greatly exaggerated.
2008-09-21 12:33:08
26.   tethier
make that 20 and 22, not 19 and 22.
2008-09-21 12:33:16
27.   Bob Timmermann
I believe the phrase you are looking for is "irrational exuberance."
2008-09-21 12:35:24
28.   tethier
27 Are you saying D4P is really Alan Greenspan?
2008-09-21 12:37:03
29.   KG16
no worries, a touchdown and a field goal and the Rockies are right back in that game.

So, basically the Dodgers need to win today, sweep the Padres and have the Diamondbacks lose on Monday to clinch before going to San Francisco, right?

2008-09-21 12:37:08
30.   Bob Timmermann
No, but he's actually a member of the Fed's Open Market Committee. He uses a 20-sided die to decide which interest rate to pick.
2008-09-21 12:38:23
31.   tethier
23 Our only hope is that they are playing in Denver, as I now see it's 6-0.
2008-09-21 12:38:34
32.   Alex41592
With a win today the D'Backs still have to lose one game in St. Louis for us to have a chance to clinch at home.
2008-09-21 12:39:14
33.   Bob Timmermann
If you assume the DBacks win today (I'm feeling very economist like today), then counting today's game against the Giants, there are eight games that the Dodgers and AZ play. The Dodgers need the "right" outcome in five of them.
2008-09-21 12:39:59
34.   Bob Timmermann
And of those eight games, the Dodgers only control the outcome of four of them.
2008-09-21 12:43:04
35.   tethier
30 The only comments I can think of to this will probably be construed as a rule 5 violation.
2008-09-21 12:44:15
36.   KG16
Wait, the Dodgers have 7 games, including today. The Diamondbacks have 8 games, including today. Bob is using fuzzy math, just like an economist
2008-09-21 12:44:57
37.   KG16
30 - I heard this week they're going to start using 3 20-sided dice to determine interest rates.
2008-09-21 12:45:28
38.   Harold M Johnson
Can someone post today's lineup if they have a chance? Thanks in advance.
2008-09-21 12:45:59
39.   Tripon
Martin. C
Ethier. RF
Ramirez. LF
Loney. 1B
Blake. 3B
Kemp. CF
DeWitt. 2B
Berroa. SS
Lowe. RHP

from T.J.

2008-09-21 12:46:23
40.   berkowit28
29 ...or, if Dodgers win today, have the D'backs lose to Cardinals (Monday through Thursday) one more time than the Dodgers lose to the Padres. Then they'd still be 4 back before the final series next weekend. So far, they're pretty good about losing the very same night we do. If they keep that up, they'd just have to lose Monday as well.
2008-09-21 12:47:32
41.   Bob Timmermann
I was adding up the games played by both AZ and LA before the Dodgers have to go on the road.
2008-09-21 12:47:46
42.   LoneStar7
well i guess colorado isn't gonna help us out much..
2008-09-21 12:48:34
43.   thinkblue88 misinformed me. the yankee-dodger game is on.
2008-09-21 12:49:12
44.   KG16
I'm still not entirely happy about seeing the Raiders on my TV again this week, but at least it's turning out to be a good game, and I made the good call of starting Jankikowski this week.
2008-09-21 12:49:13
45.   Alex41592
42 - They won on Friday which was nice of them. With a win today we equal Arizona which is just fine.
2008-09-21 12:49:40
46.   Tripon
42 They already won a game against the D'Backs.
2008-09-21 12:50:15
47.   KG16
41 - ah, just like an economist, leaving out a key detail. And all I can think about is a one armed economist
2008-09-21 12:50:19
48.   Tripon
Raiders are going to be 2-1. Kiffin's never going to be fired.
2008-09-21 12:52:24
49.   whodat807
On TJ's rant post on those Gibson flip books, FalseHopeRally commented: "Who hurt you Tony? Who hurt you?" I laughed.

The Raiders-Bills game is a great one. Raiders looking surprisingly spry.

2008-09-21 12:54:15
50.   Tripon
49 Maybe Al Davis knows what he's doing... nah. He lucked into this so badly.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2008-09-21 12:54:22
51.   thinkblue88
HR by Reggie Smith!
Ron Cey reaches on IF single.....
2008-09-21 12:56:28
52.   KG16
I'm somewhat amazed that Trent Edwards is still in the NFL, I believe he started with the LA Charges in the AFL, no?
2008-09-21 13:00:10
53.   Bob Timmermann
The Patriots would be doing better today, but Charlie Weis took the sideline laptop with him when he left the NFL.
2008-09-21 13:01:10
54.   KG16
The Patriots are at -4 on my fantasy team today. I figured going with New England at home against the Dolphins would have been a safe bet.

Next time, I'm pressing on the hard eight.

2008-09-21 13:02:24
55.   berkowit28
Boston has beat Toronto 3-0. I think that means that not only Toronto, but also Minnesota, is out of the AL wild card race, which is now entirely in AL East. (Bob?)

So, believe it or not, the Yankees actually have something to fight for in their last game at Yankee Stadium tonight. Theoretically, at least. They're still barely in the wild card race, with an elimination number, still, of 2.

2008-09-21 13:04:06
56.   Bob Timmermann
I said as much at 12:51 on the Griddle.

However, if the Yankees get eliminated tonight, that won't go up as fast since I'm going out to eat with some friends this evening.

Which I think I will enjoy a lot more than watching ESPN's coverage of the Baltimore Sacrificial Lambs against the Yankees.

2008-09-21 13:04:12
57.   berkowit28
55 Oh, Bob was busy putting it up at the Griddle as I wrote.
2008-09-21 13:04:19
58.   D4P
American Ryder Cup players and fans are like school in summertime.
2008-09-21 13:07:28
59.   thinkblue88
Why was Hooten batting in the game at Yankee Stadium?
2008-09-21 13:07:36
60.   berkowit28
56 I don't think the Yankees can get eliminated tonight, since Boston lost. If they lose tonight, they'll still have 1 left - the earliest can be tomorrow, if Boston beats Cleveland.
2008-09-21 13:08:14
61.   Bob Timmermann
At that time, the DH alternated YEARS and didn't go by the home team's rules.
2008-09-21 13:09:03
62.   LoneStar7
that manny look alike contest was hilarious
2008-09-21 13:09:16
63.   berkowit28
60 Sorry, that was complete nonsense. Since Boston won, yes, the Yankees could get eliminated tonight. But I expect they'll win tonight, then probably get eliminated passively tomorrow anyway.
2008-09-21 13:09:26
64.   thinkblue88
2008-09-21 13:09:29
65.   Bob Timmermann
But Boston won. They have 91 wins. The Yankees have 71 losses.

The Yankees can't lose another game.

2008-09-21 13:10:24
66.   Bob Timmermann
The lack of the DH in the 1981 World Series would pay off big time for the Dodgers.

God bless you Bob Lemon.

2008-09-21 13:10:51
67.   whodat807
Raiders in the process of blowing it right now.
2008-09-21 13:11:07
68.   KG16
And there is no joy in Oakland today.
2008-09-21 13:12:18
69.   Tripon
Talked too soon! Bills win! Raiders are 1-2.
2008-09-21 13:18:14
70.   LoneStar7
nice little inning for D lowe
2008-09-21 13:20:22
71.   D4P
Ochoa, Schierholtz, Ishikawa, McClain, Velez...

Well done, Brian.

2008-09-21 13:20:48
72.   Bob Timmermann
Pads finish off a sweep of the Nats.
2008-09-21 13:21:14
73.   oshea2002
Raiders choke, Rockies forgot they had a game. Bad day so far.
2008-09-21 13:21:22
74.   Tripon
Martin singles!
2008-09-21 13:23:53
75.   Bob Timmermann
2008-09-21 13:26:45
76.   Andrew Shimmin
What'd they do, clone Vizquel?
2008-09-21 13:29:15
77.   DBrim
Blake was swinging for the fences there. Not a good strategy.
2008-09-21 13:29:36
78.   oshea2002
Come on Bison
2008-09-21 13:31:37
79.   LoneStar7
2008-09-21 13:32:14
80.   MonkeyBlue
So bad.
2008-09-21 13:32:19
81.   whodat807
2008-09-21 13:35:08
82.   oshea2002
Wow, it continues.
2008-09-21 13:35:37
83.   Bob Timmermann
Atkins hit a 3-run homer to make it 7-3 AZ.
2008-09-21 13:35:55
84.   Jon Weisman
3-R HR for Colorado.
2008-09-21 13:36:25
85.   fracule
0 Nice post Jon! Well said. It's really funny how we can take relative concepts like 'maturity' and pretend like we have empirical measurements for them.
2008-09-21 13:36:48
86.   Bob Timmermann
Jon asks himself "Why do I bother?"
2008-09-21 13:38:54
87.   DBrim
That has to be the only time I've seen Bengi go from 1st to 3rd on a single.
2008-09-21 13:39:50
88.   thinkblue88
I hope we play the Mets. Terrible bullpen.
2008-09-21 13:40:29
89.   Bob Timmermann
How the Mets have won 86 games with the pitching staff they have is one of baseball's biggest mysteries.
2008-09-21 13:41:06
90.   Tommy Naccarato
Damn right they should have been walking him.
2008-09-21 13:41:34
91.   Johnny Nucleo
0 I always appreciate the level-headedness I find here. BTW The sentence beginning with "Today, the Dodgers find themselves..." didn't even need to mention Loney to be convincing ;)
2008-09-21 13:42:44
92.   Tommy Naccarato
Nothing like seeing a deer in the headlights.

Cain looked like he was waiting for the year 2020.

2008-09-21 13:42:44
93.   LoneStar7
this is some good ol fashioned nl west baseball
2008-09-21 13:43:55
94.   Bob Timmermann
The Cubs JV squad is having little trouble with the Cardinals today.
2008-09-21 13:50:12
95.   Bob Timmermann
You really don't want to know the Arizona score.

Trust me.

2008-09-21 13:50:17
96.   oshea2002
11-3 D Backs
2008-09-21 13:51:05
97.   D4P
oshea2002 asks him/herself "Why do I bother?"
2008-09-21 13:54:00
98.   oshea2002
2008-09-21 13:54:34
99.   Benjamin Miracord
Kemp, with 147 SO, is just three away from erasing Bill Grabarkewitz (149) from the L.A. Dodger record book.

Grabarkewitz had a 134 OPS+ that year (1970).

2008-09-21 13:55:27
100.   Woden325
95 No kidding. The Rockies are essentially giving the D-backs extra batting practice.
Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2008-09-21 13:56:26
101.   Bob Timmermann
Orange alert for Short Chris Young in Denver. This is an orange alert.
2008-09-21 14:01:14
102.   D4P
When I read "X alert for Y in Z", I assume that the color of the alert is "X".
2008-09-21 14:05:28
103.   D4P
Looking like the US will regain the Ryder Cup.
2008-09-21 14:06:11
104.   Andrew Shimmin
Deftly played.
2008-09-21 14:06:26
105.   DBrim
Tough luck for Loney today.
2008-09-21 14:08:11
106.   Jon Weisman
Loney has been robbed twice of RBI hits.
2008-09-21 14:09:12
107.   Eric Stephen
The man who caught the final out of Ramon Martinez's no-hitter is the 1st base coach for the Giants.

I can still picture Piazza bearhugging a rail-thin Ramon, almost snapping him like a twig, after the final out.

2008-09-21 14:09:50
108.   Tripon
Loney steals an out!
2008-09-21 14:09:59
109.   Andrew Shimmin
No way.
2008-09-21 14:12:42
110.   Tripon
Clayton Kershaw will throw Wednesday, followed by Greg Maddux on Thursday. While it didn't sound that way after Friday night's loss, Torre said there wasn't any question as to whether or not Maddux would pitch next week, only which day. I wasn't the only person who reported it as they might skip Maddux, but that's how it was explained today. Certainly there's no guarantee he'll pitch in the postseason, but he'll get one more start before the end of the year.

2008-09-21 14:13:31
111.   JoeyP
I dont think anyone thought Lowe would be this good during his 2008 season.

Un real.

2008-09-21 14:14:19
112.   Bob Timmermann
David Price will start for the Rays on Monday in Baltimore.
2008-09-21 14:14:51
113.   D4P
Jim Furyk has a 30-footer to win the Ryder Cup.
2008-09-21 14:17:00
114.   LoneStar7
man I'm starting to get a little nervous about the potential playoff atmosphere in san fransisco as I'm sure thats been the one series circled on giant fan's calendars for the last couple months

and at the same time everyone is seemingly falling asleep on the dbacks.

2008-09-21 14:17:40
115.   Rob M
111 I'm not surprised. I think that "really good" is within his expected range of performance, as it was in the '04 post season.
2008-09-21 14:17:56
116.   Bob Timmermann
Old Friend Juan Castro will get to start at shortstop for the Orioles in the final Yankee Stadium game.
2008-09-21 14:20:01
117.   oshea2002
2008-09-21 14:20:40
118.   JoeyP
Will the Dodgers re-sign Lowe?

Or walk away from the table and cash out with big winnings?

2008-09-21 14:21:08
119.   Andrew Shimmin
Hey! There's no cheering in golf.
2008-09-21 14:24:33
120.   MonkeyBlue
Thanks for the hustle Manny.
2008-09-21 14:25:10
121.   Rob M
There's the other side of Manny.
2008-09-21 14:25:37
122.   Rob M
I'm pretty sure he gave up on that ball the moment it was hit.
2008-09-21 14:28:27
123.   MonkeyBlue
Lowe with already 86 pitches.
2008-09-21 14:30:17
124.   D4P
The Giants are not going to score in this game.
2008-09-21 14:38:48
125.   MonkeyBlue
Man the Dodgers must score in this inning!
2008-09-21 14:39:27
126.   MonkeyBlue
2008-09-21 14:39:39
127.   thinkblue88
2008-09-21 14:40:05
128.   MonkeyBlue
Berroa was safe!
2008-09-21 14:40:19
129.   ucladodger
Did Bowa realize who was on deck?
2008-09-21 14:40:28
130.   LoneStar7
2008-09-21 14:40:48
131.   Branch Rickey
128 Nope. Great play. Tip your cap.
2008-09-21 14:40:55
132.   thinkblue88
I sense a Loney Special coming up.... =/
2008-09-21 14:43:09
133.   overkill94
Robbed three times!
2008-09-21 14:43:27
134.   thinkblue88
Oops, already two outs.

Whats with all the diving catches!?

2008-09-21 14:43:30
135.   Tripon
that's 3 non-hits for Loney
2008-09-21 14:43:30
136.   DBrim
Are you kidding me?
2008-09-21 14:43:33
137.   MonkeyBlue
Loney robbed again.
2008-09-21 14:43:33
138.   whodat807
2008-09-21 14:43:35
139.   Alex41592
This is a tremendous game. Wow these defensive plays.
2008-09-21 14:43:58
140.   JoeyP
Loney leaves 7 guys on base in his 1st 3abs.
2008-09-21 14:44:00
141.   Jon Weisman
I can't remember a guy getting robbed of RBI hits three times in a row.
2008-09-21 14:44:43
142.   Alex41592
140 - I take it you are not watching the game?
2008-09-21 14:45:20
143.   LoneStar7
oh my goodness
2008-09-21 14:45:26
144.   Bob Timmermann
Interesting game in Oakland.
2008-09-21 14:47:24
145.   D4P
Dodgers will score sooner or later. The Giants have a characteristically impotent lineup.
2008-09-21 14:47:26
146.   Jon Weisman
140 - Well, that's the unfair way of looking at it.
2008-09-21 14:47:52
147.   I Love LA
this is ridiculous, the hated ones are playing gold glove defense all day. Why only with us? Their defense sucked against AZ. I hate you SF.
2008-09-21 14:48:34
148.   ucladodger
Thats like the 5th time the Giants have just poked the ball right down the 3rd base line this series.
2008-09-21 14:48:45
149.   LoneStar7
yes an extra large asterisk next to that 0-3 : (
2008-09-21 14:49:30
150.   ucladodger

Because Velez isnt in left field. I still cant believe bochy put him there against Zona.

Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2008-09-21 14:49:48
151.   I Love LA
They might score here to break our back.
2008-09-21 14:49:57
152.   D4P
Well, that's the unfair way of looking at it

Thus the importance of walks and HRs. Don't leave the outcome of your PA up to the opposing team.

2008-09-21 14:49:57
153.   CanuckDodger
140 -- That comment -- basically summing up what the box score tells us about Loney's AB's today -- is somehow a perfect example of how relying on statistics can lead to the very opposite of enlightenment about baseball. You really do have to WATCH the game.
2008-09-21 14:50:13
154.   Sam PHL
144 - No longer interesting. In fact, very uninteresting.
2008-09-21 14:50:46
155.   oshea2002
Velez is still +1 in my book for us.
2008-09-21 14:51:19
156.   Eric Stephen
Third time about to be the charm.
2008-09-21 14:51:52
157.   D4P
There really is no such thing as "being robbed". Defenders make plays: that's what they do. No batted ball "should" be a hit, unless it's so far over the outfield fence that no human could have reasonably been expected to catch it.
2008-09-21 14:51:59
158.   Eric Stephen
The best part about that post was that I forgot I was watching on delay. Aw, nuts.
2008-09-21 14:52:10
159.   ucladodger

Yes, because a 1-0 lead in the 6th is an impossible margin to overcome.

2008-09-21 14:52:40
160.   MonkeyBlue
Good job Lowe.
2008-09-21 14:54:44
161.   Gen3Blue
While the Giant do have an amazingly impotent offense, this is the kind of game where one run could do it. With the pitchers and defense giving every fiber to beat the hated one, it may be hard to get any offense going. Most of our guys should get better with the "clutch stuff" in the next few years. Manny is already there, being still near the peak of his career.
2008-09-21 14:54:53
162.   Eric Stephen
This isn't the most accurate way of measurement, but the Giants had 0 errors in 4 games in AZ.
2008-09-21 14:55:07
163.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Do you leave Lowe out there another inning?
I do - he's a veteran and the 8-9-1 slots are coming up.
2008-09-21 14:55:22
164.   I Love LA
lowe really doesn't get much run support.
2008-09-21 14:57:09
165.   Tommy Naccarato
I hate to seem so negative, but this game has Dodger heartbreak written all over it.
2008-09-21 14:57:51
166.   Andrew Shimmin
153- The only DT relationship more symbiotic than D4P's and mine might be yours to JoeyP.
2008-09-21 14:58:14
167.   Tripon
Just wait until we get into the Giants bullpen.
2008-09-21 14:58:31
168.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
164 - No, he doesn't.
4.9 runs of support per game - good for 132nd in the NL.
2008-09-21 14:59:30
169.   CanuckDodger
157 -- Defensive plays are not all equal. Some are routine, others are extraordinary. When a ball in play that was unlikely to be turned into an out given average defense IS caught, it is standard and legitimate practice to say the hitter was "robbed."
2008-09-21 14:59:40
170.   Tripon
Oh come on!
2008-09-21 14:59:51
171.   Eric Stephen
Did SF trade for the Milwaukee OF? :)
2008-09-21 14:59:59
172.   overkill94
Dang, Web Gem city today
2008-09-21 14:59:59
173.   ucladodger
My goodness. This is getting a little silly/
2008-09-21 15:00:04
174.   thinkblue88
Giants playing some great defense. Nothing we can do about that.
2008-09-21 15:00:33
175.   I Love LA
Another defensive play. This is bs.
2008-09-21 15:00:56
176.   Tripon
Yeah we can, we can throw at their heads.
2008-09-21 15:02:40
177.   Tripon
Last inning for Lowe. He lead offs next inning.
2008-09-21 15:03:23
178.   Tommy Naccarato
And this is what we get for counting our chickens before they hatch.....

This NL-West is far from over. We still have this game, three with old friends, San Diego and then back up in the bay.

Why do I feel a Arizona sweep of the Cardinals is about to happen?

Honestly, this is no different then any Dodger seasons past, where they are competing for a divisional title the last week of the season. Sometimes it works; sometimes it doesn't.

Today it won't.

2008-09-21 15:04:55
179.   LoneStar7
man if lowe can just somehow get out of this, maybe we can send up pee wee and get someone on for manny

this is just so frustrating

2008-09-21 15:05:39
180.   CanuckDodger
166 -- Is "symbiosis" really the right word for it?
2008-09-21 15:05:52
181.   Sam PHL
164 - Cain really doesn't get run support. He gets 3.26 runs per 9. Lowe gets 4.90.
2008-09-21 15:06:25
182.   thinkblue88
Woo! Lowe! Come dude, one more out.
2008-09-21 15:06:29
183.   D4P
Defensive plays are not all equal. Some are routine, others are extraordinary. When a ball in play that was unlikely to be turned into an out given average defense IS caught, it is standard and legitimate practice to say the hitter was "robbed."

I know that's the standard practice, but among other things it ignores defensive alignment. Defenders don't (always) align themselves randomly: they (at least sometimes) stand in a strategic location, where they have reason to believe the ball is more likely to be hit than elsewhere (because of hitter characteristics, pitching strategy, etc.).

If a defender makes a diving catch that appears to "rob" the hitter, it is necessarily the case that the defender would not have made the catch if he had been standing "too far" in the "wrong direction". On the other hand, he might not have had to dive if he had been standing further in the "right" direction.

So the "robbedness" depends heavily upon where the defender is standing, which is not necessarily a random part of the game. On the contrary, it is (or at least, can be) an integral part of playing defense.

2008-09-21 15:07:01
184.   D4P
115 pitches for Lowe.
2008-09-21 15:07:30
185.   oshea2002
I wouldn't say this is BS. The giants suck, but these are still major league players. Shierholtz's catch was great; the rest were all plays that should be made by major leaguers. It is what it is, we just need to score some runs and have someone produce with men aboard. Both pitchers have done a good job.
2008-09-21 15:08:14
186.   D4P
.597 OPSing Dave Roberts pinch-hitting for .532 OPSing Ivan Ochoa.
2008-09-21 15:08:38
187.   JoeyP
Bad managing by Bochy there.

Cain's at 108. You gotta pinch hit for him & not give up the out.

Dodgers will make him pay in the bottom of the 7th.

2008-09-21 15:09:14
188.   thinkblue88
Yes!! Lowe! Great pitching effort by Lowe.
2008-09-21 15:09:14
189.   Alex41592
Great game.
2008-09-21 15:09:16
190.   Tripon
Lowe gets out of it.

Time to win this game!

2008-09-21 15:09:29
191.   MonkeyBlue
Lowe, Great game today. You really tough it out for us. A true Aces.
2008-09-21 15:09:38
192.   oshea2002
Great, great job by Lowe. He has certainly been awesome lately. I'll feel pretty good with him in game 1 against anyone.
2008-09-21 15:09:44
193.   Linkmeister
Richardson did not "rob" McCovey in the last game of the 1962 WS; he was in the right place.

Agee did "rob" Elrod Hendricks in the 1969 WS.

2008-09-21 15:09:53
194.   LoneStar7
bingo..lets go!
2008-09-21 15:10:02
195.   JoeyP
186--IF you gonna pinch hit for Ochoa, let Sandoval hit.

Bochy's making it easy for the Dodgers.

2008-09-21 15:10:19
196.   Branch Rickey
And this is what we get for counting our chickens before they hatch.....

What is? Absolutely nothing has happened.
I realize that the negativity around here is just a vocal minority but it is so vocal that it sometimes makes it hard for any level headed thoughts to break through the cacophony of bellowing and doomsaying.

2008-09-21 15:11:57
197.   Alex41592
And now Cain is gone. Bizarre.
2008-09-21 15:12:22
198.   Bob Timmermann
Bruce Bochy is asking for an apology.
2008-09-21 15:12:30
199.   Woden325
Going to the bottom of the 9th in Denver. 12-4 in favor of the D-backs.
Barring a miracle, you can stand down from the cycle alert.
2008-09-21 15:12:57
200.   Andrew Shimmin
Quick reminder about rule 1: the two letter abbreviation of a profane word is as verboten as the profanity itself.
Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2008-09-21 15:13:19
201.   Bob Timmermann
Bochy wanted to have someone sacrifice and he figured Cain would do just as well anybody on the bench.
2008-09-21 15:14:03
202.   D4P
Bochy and Sabean: paid professionals.
2008-09-21 15:14:19
203.   JoeyP
The stupid bunter principle eh?
2008-09-21 15:14:35
204.   LoneStar7
noo why juan?
2008-09-21 15:14:52
205.   Bob Timmermann
Are these safe to count?

2008-09-21 15:16:09
206.   Andrew Shimmin
Your link is kaput.
2008-09-21 15:16:56
207.   Woden325
199 And it's over. Mercifully.
2008-09-21 15:18:56
208.   Bob Timmermann
Take two

2008-09-21 15:19:45
209.   Tripon
The Giants are using their good relievers this game.
2008-09-21 15:20:03
210.   LoneStar7
2008-09-21 15:21:13
211.   D4P
What's in the potatoes...?
2008-09-21 15:21:18
212.   Andrew Shimmin
Those potatoes look like bad news. But I really could do with a little more fried chicken in my life.
2008-09-21 15:21:36
213.   oshea2002
With StL with nothing to play for, and with them owning Colorado, I think it's reasonable to think AZ will finish out 6-1. Figure they drop 1 of 4 in StL and sweep in AZ. That makes this game huge - assuming AZ wins tomorrow with Webb, we'd still be up 3 with 6 to play. But we'll face Lincecum in the final game, and now Peavy due to SD's moving pitchers around. We have to win this game today.
2008-09-21 15:21:38
214.   MonkeyBlue
Manny to win it in the ninth!
2008-09-21 15:21:54
215.   Andrew Shimmin
White gravy. Without, it would seem, any pepper.
2008-09-21 15:22:02
216.   Bob Timmermann
Most people would call it gravy.
2008-09-21 15:23:25
217.   Sam PHL
I vote for Loney to hit it where no one can catch it next inning.
2008-09-21 15:23:30
218.   D4P
What's the difference between white and brown gravy? Put another way, what makes brown gravy brown (or white gravy white)?
2008-09-21 15:24:45
219.   Bob Timmermann
Cream is the key ingredient.
2008-09-21 15:25:43
220.   Bob Timmermann
Oakland has tied Seattle 3-3 in the 8th. The battle for last place looks to be coming down to the last day.
2008-09-21 15:25:49
221.   Andrew Shimmin
218- Beef.
2008-09-21 15:26:52
222.   MonkeyBlue
Wade! good job. Nice and easy.
2008-09-21 15:27:08
223.   Alex41592
Do different sell out attendances have to do with the number of comps?
2008-09-21 15:27:39
224.   Andrew Shimmin
Uh oh. Isn't it brown if you're using beef remnants as the base? And white if you're not using anything? You can't get what's left of the chicken out of the fryer, right? So it's just grease and dairy, but with brown gravy, you've got whatever was left from cooking the beef?

Somebody who knows how to cook should probably take over.

2008-09-21 15:27:44
225.   JoeyP
3-0 greenlight for the rookie?


2008-09-21 15:28:14
226.   The Dude Abides
Vinny is not a lepidopterist.
2008-09-21 15:28:50
227.   Bob Timmermann
I'm just going by the fact that the menu said "cream gravy."

That was my lunch that day. I didn't eat dinner that night.

Or much dinner the next night.

2008-09-21 15:31:03
228.   Andrew Shimmin
I'm deeply suspicious of all sauces, particularly gravies.
2008-09-21 15:31:08
229.   LoneStar7
2008-09-21 15:31:09
230.   D4P
I didn't eat dinner that night. Or much dinner the next night.

Probably a good thing. That meal probably contained a couple day's worth of fat, and not the good kind either.

2008-09-21 15:32:07
231.   D4P
When you order Big Macs at the McDonalds kiosk at WalMart, do you ask them to hold the special sauce?
2008-09-21 15:32:46
232.   The Dude Abides
So this guy Romo seems to have pretty good stuff, especially against righties.
2008-09-21 15:34:12
233.   Andrew Shimmin
Big Mac? As if. . .

2008-09-21 15:34:44
234.   Bob Timmermann
Romo actually has better numbers against lefties, but he hasn't pitched much in the majors.
2008-09-21 15:34:52
235.   LoneStar7
that was a load bologna
2008-09-21 15:35:00
236.   The Dude Abides
Bummer...reverse jinx didn't work.
2008-09-21 15:35:09
237.   Gen3Blue
Lost in the seeming inevitability of this situation, is the fact that Lowe is in his late season prime, and could be as good as any pitcher in the playoffs, should we get there.
2008-09-21 15:37:18
238.   whodat807
Hoo-boy, Ronnie Brown accounted for 5 TDs today. Whoever had him in the DT league must be very very happy.

Today's game sure has been frustrating, but I love pitching duels like this. Unless we lose, then I hate it.

2008-09-21 15:38:12
239.   MonkeyBlue
Wade! man are we abusing this guy.
2008-09-21 15:39:27
240.   LoneStar7
what in the world
2008-09-21 15:39:52
241.   Woden325
230 Not the good kind, perhaps, but definitely the delicious kind.
2008-09-21 15:40:10
242.   whodat807
237 As the schedule stands, will Lowe be the Game 1 starter if we make it to the playoffs?
2008-09-21 15:40:39
243.   Bob Timmermann
Wade threw just 8 pitches last night.

And the Dodgers are off tomorrow.

He didn't pitch on Friday.

2008-09-21 15:41:44
244.   Branch Rickey
If it's true that the postseason is all about having two strong starters, it certainly looks like no playoff team in the NL has as strong a 1-2 punch as Billingsley/Lowe.
Going by stats alone that is.
2008-09-21 15:43:21
245.   oshea2002
Cleveland Browns = most overhyped team of the last 10 years. They are terrible.
2008-09-21 15:43:30
246.   Bob Timmermann
There's a man asleep in the expensive seats behind the plate.
2008-09-21 15:44:07
247.   MonkeyBlue
2008-09-21 15:44:12
248.   Bob Timmermann
I hope that guy woke up.
2008-09-21 15:44:27
249.   oshea2002
Tuesday will be a good indicator for Bills. One - we need to win, big time. Two - it's a good indicator of the type of pitcher we'll face in the playoffs.
2008-09-21 15:44:45
250.   LoneStar7
atta boy russ!
Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2008-09-21 15:45:09
251.   D4P
Did Aurilia get robbed...?
2008-09-21 15:46:42
252.   Sam PHL
Yes. But robbed of a foul ball is a little different than robbed of an RBI double.
2008-09-21 15:46:53
253.   Bob Timmermann
As in "larceny by threat of violence?"
2008-09-21 15:47:15
254.   MonkeyBlue
Come on Bison do something! get on base.
2008-09-21 15:47:39
255.   Bob Timmermann
The Mariners lose their 11th straight! They want that first pick.
2008-09-21 15:48:58
256.   thinkblue88
This has been a very exciting game to watch! Great defense and pitching on both sides.
2008-09-21 15:49:47
257.   Bob Timmermann
Reminds of a 2006 Maddux-Schmidt game.
2008-09-21 15:50:15
258.   Sam PHL
Throwers named Romo are not popular over here.
2008-09-21 15:50:52
259.   Bob Timmermann
Bonus frames!
2008-09-21 15:51:50
260.   D4P
We didn't even have to pay for these!
2008-09-21 15:52:28
261.   oshea2002
Isn't Kent available?
2008-09-21 15:52:42
262.   Bob Timmermann
Not even Vicente Romo?
2008-09-21 15:53:41
263.   Branch Rickey
257 So we should be looking to Martin, right?
Better than watching a 2008 Maddux-Schmidt game.
2008-09-21 15:53:53
264.   Bob Timmermann
Kent's re-appearance is probably going to be in a situation where the game is out of hand or if he can end the game with a hit.
2008-09-21 15:54:32
265.   Bob Timmermann
Consecutive Sunday 0-0 games after 9.
2008-09-21 15:55:14
266.   oshea2002
I like playing the Giants much better w/o worrying about Bonds and Durham (who I always felt just killed us).
2008-09-21 15:55:31
267.   Sam PHL
262 - He's the exception - there's a parade for him every year to honor his eight years between major league starts.
2008-09-21 15:55:44
268.   Andrew Shimmin
There's a part of me that thinks it wouldn't be funny if Broxton gave up six or seven runs, here.
2008-09-21 15:56:04
269.   oshea2002
264 - good point. Maybe a spot where a fly ball wins it type deal.
2008-09-21 15:56:37
270.   The Dude Abides
There is no way that 3-1 pitch to Vizquel was high.
2008-09-21 15:58:42
271.   The Dude Abides
No breaking balls to Molina unless they are off the outside corner.
2008-09-21 15:59:01
272.   oshea2002
Uh, Vinny, no one wants to see Sandoval up.
2008-09-21 15:59:18
273.   D4P
What kind of fake emotions are you feeling these days in relation to the DBacks?
2008-09-21 15:59:23
274.   The Dude Abides
Don't throw him three in a row!
2008-09-21 16:00:42
275.   LoneStar7
wow i nearly had a stroke
2008-09-21 16:01:13
276.   The Dude Abides
Dodged a bullet. Molina sits on breaking balls, admits he can't catch up to good fastballs, and we threw him three sliders in a row. If he pulls that one instead of taking Bison to the track, we're down 2-0 strictly on stupid pitch calling.
2008-09-21 16:02:20
277.   MonkeyBlue
My heart stopped for a second when Molina hit that flyball.
2008-09-21 16:03:52
278.   Icaros
Why not just blow fastballs by that blob?
2008-09-21 16:04:41
279.   D4P
Why not just blow fastballs by that blob?

That blob is OPSplusing the same as Russell Martin.

But at least Martin's not a blob.

2008-09-21 16:06:17
280.   MonkeyBlue
Damn nice curve.
2008-09-21 16:06:28
281.   Branch Rickey
Russell has been trying to pull absolutely everything.
2008-09-21 16:06:38
282.   Icaros
I miss the Martin who didn't chase sliders.
2008-09-21 16:06:41
283.   The Dude Abides
Andre, please end it right here
2008-09-21 16:06:44
284.   overkill94
I smell a walk-off...
2008-09-21 16:06:49
285.   DBrim
What a poor swing.
2008-09-21 16:07:59
286.   The Dude Abides
Me too, but that slider barely missed. Impossible to lay off that perfect pitch. And, Romo retires nine in a row :(
2008-09-21 16:08:15
287.   Icaros

They're OPS+ing the same because Martin has begun copying Molina's plate discipline.

2008-09-21 16:08:16
288.   LoneStar7
2008-09-21 16:08:24
289.   MonkeyBlue
Offense? Where are thou offense?
2008-09-21 16:10:02
290.   Tripon
This is high leverage for Saito.
2008-09-21 16:10:07
291.   Icaros

I would call it a perfect pitch if it were actually a strike.

2008-09-21 16:10:13
292.   The Dude Abides
Wow, Sammy for back to back games.
2008-09-21 16:10:29
293.   Andrew Shimmin
273- I've run the gamut of phony emotions, from A to B.
2008-09-21 16:10:46
294.   Tripon
Where's Sadoval?
2008-09-21 16:10:58
295.   preacherroe
Can Sweeney get enough at bats the rest of the way to establish a new Mendoza line hitting under .100? Can A.J. Ellis get a little love?
2008-09-21 16:11:57
296.   thinkblue88
Woo! Saito!
2008-09-21 16:11:57
297.   MonkeyBlue
Nice heat by Saito.
2008-09-21 16:12:25
298.   Eric Stephen
Probably somewhere waiting to be signed or drafted, since no one by that name exists in MLB.
2008-09-21 16:13:01
299.   whodat807
Saito's showing his mid-season form. If he comes all the way back and is the Saito of old, the Dodgers will be mighty hard to beat.
2008-09-21 16:13:05
300.   Tripon
That pitch had some motion!
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2008-09-21 16:13:10
301.   The Dude Abides
And I'd call it a perfect pitch if there are two strikes on the batter, it looks like a strike, and darts out of the zone at the last instant.
2008-09-21 16:13:16
302.   LU Dodger


2008-09-21 16:14:08
303.   Icaros

Thanks for letting me know.

2008-09-21 16:15:35
304.   MonkeyBlue
Crap, Sandoval is up.
2008-09-21 16:16:23
305.   LoneStar7
hes scary
2008-09-21 16:18:46
306.   Tripon
Force out! We'll take what we can get!
2008-09-21 16:18:47
307.   MonkeyBlue
Nice play by Casey.
2008-09-21 16:20:23
308.   LogikReader
Pinch running for Sandoval? Boy that is not smart. He's been hitting very well in the series. Dont you, Bochy, want to leave him in for the rest of the game?
2008-09-21 16:20:34
309.   The Dude Abides
Wow...some late tailing movement on strike two
2008-09-21 16:21:12
310.   MonkeyBlue
What the heck Martin?
2008-09-21 16:21:59
311.   MonkeyBlue
Velez is really fast.
2008-09-21 16:22:02
312.   overkill94
He was out!
2008-09-21 16:22:28
313.   MonkeyBlue
He is out! Damn!
2008-09-21 16:22:29
314.   Tripon
Replay showed he was out!
2008-09-21 16:22:41
315.   Branch Rickey
Without the stolen base, we would have had an easy force on that.
2008-09-21 16:22:44
316.   The Dude Abides
He was out, but that play was as close as possible. Argghhh!
2008-09-21 16:22:54
317.   LoneStar7
thats just bloody incredible
2008-09-21 16:25:40
318.   thinkblue88
2008-09-21 16:25:48
319.   MonkeyBlue
2008-09-21 16:26:18
320.   waterboy100
awww christ....
2008-09-21 16:26:19
321.   LoneStar7
i hate every single inning and every part of this game
2008-09-21 16:26:30
322.   Tripon
I want replay for everything. I want replay on balls and strikes, I want replay on bases on balls. I want replay on calls at first, 2nd and 3rd. I want replay on everything.
2008-09-21 16:26:45
323.   overkill94
Bob Davidson is now on my list
2008-09-21 16:27:03
324.   thinkblue88
Chill dude.
We still got three outs left ourselves.
2008-09-21 16:27:16
325.   oshea2002
I think I'm gonna be sick.
2008-09-21 16:28:10
326.   Linkmeister
It's one run, guys, not twelve.
2008-09-21 16:28:20
327.   LogikReader

Boy they sure showed me.

2008-09-21 16:28:26
328.   oshea2002
We'd better get the same performance from the Beach Boy that he gave Arizona a couple weeks back.
2008-09-21 16:28:30
329.   The Dude Abides
Not only that, but with a runner on first, I don't believe our shortstop would have been playing so deep with a banjo hitter at the plate.
2008-09-21 16:28:33
330.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
In an effort to change the game's luck, I took a shower a few minutes ago.
My tactic worked, apparently, but not in a good way.
2008-09-21 16:30:36
331.   Sam PHL
You must have washed off the Giants' stink and not the Dodgers'.
2008-09-21 16:30:46
332.   Branch Rickey
The games not over but to what we were talking about this morning... if Berroa's hand is 3 inches closer to the plate--we win. If the play at 1st is called correctly, game is still tied. But if we lose, it will be time to explain what we did wrong. If we win, it will be how to explain what a powerhouse we are.
2008-09-21 16:31:01
333.   MonkeyBlue
A smart move is just to IBB Manny.
2008-09-21 16:31:50
334.   The Dude Abides
Sammy's slider isn't quite there yet. He hung one to Rowand and one to Aurilia. His fastball looks good, though. We're only down by a run, so it's time for heroics from Manny, James, THIMITW, and Bison.
2008-09-21 16:32:35
335.   Linkmeister
That Lasorda promo with the blown-out candle documents a sin against his religion.
2008-09-21 16:32:50
336.   The Dude Abides
2008-09-21 16:33:46
337.   MonkeyBlue
Ump give the really low strike zone to Wilson.
2008-09-21 16:34:05
338.   Branch Rickey
335 Yeah but probably the only one of his life...
or not.
2008-09-21 16:35:27
339.   MonkeyBlue
Wilson sure throws hard.
2008-09-21 16:35:34
340.   Tripon
QUESTEC, where art thou?
2008-09-21 16:36:41
341.   MollyKnight
He was out.
2008-09-21 16:39:06
342.   oshea2002
Killer loss. I'd say there's an extremely good chance we go into play on Wednesday with only a 1 game lead. At that point all bets are off. Billingsley is gonna need to pitch his best on Tuesday.
2008-09-21 16:39:13
343.   overkill94
Apparently Sunday is not our day
2008-09-21 16:39:15
344.   thinkblue88
Get 'em on Tuesday.
2008-09-21 16:40:00
345.   Tripon
2 and a half, and suddenly that lead looks smaller and smaller.
2008-09-21 16:41:00
346.   overkill94
342 But you already deemed Billingsley the losing pitcher on Tuesday...
2008-09-21 16:41:52
347.   Alex41592
Tick tick tick time is running out for Arizona. They have to win out.
2008-09-21 16:42:27
348.   preacherroe
Heart of the order:0-16 with 13lob. That is distressful. Meanwhile Snakes bats woke up a little. Ouch! We can't have a one game lead after tomorrow can we?
2008-09-21 16:42:51
349.   oshea2002
346 - After watching us v. Jake the last few years, I don't like our chances with anyone on the hill. But if anyone can do it, Bills can, but it will take a great effort.
2008-09-21 16:56:31
350.   dodgerkramer1
The season comes down to 4 games in St. Louis.

Because of our inept offense, we are the only first-place team in history NOT in control of our own destiny.

Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2008-09-21 16:57:32
351.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
350 - Mind explaining that last part?
2008-09-21 17:02:32
352.   Alex41592
I will take 2 or 3 up with 6 to go. Thank you very much.
2008-09-21 17:03:24
353.   overkill94
348 Nope, at worst we'll have a 2 game lead
2008-09-21 17:04:29
354.   Linkmeister
I'd rather be up 2.5 with 6 to go than behind by 2.5 with 6 to go.
2008-09-21 17:08:18
355.   Tripon
Hopefully, St. Louis makes it 3 up when Tuesday starts.
2008-09-21 17:09:25
356.   LoneStar7
I'm just interested to see if this Dodger team will wind up showing they are as weak minded and weak spirited as recent teams, I really don't think they are, but it pretty scary to not put a run on the board in 11.

While making the playoffs is the number one goal, I don't want to back into it either. I feel like if we stumble in because AZ can't capitalize, we'll just be setting ourselves up for another 1st round let down.

I don't mean to come across as someone throwing us under the buss after one bad loss, just venting some concern.

Even though cards probably feel out of it, maybe they'll be inspired at home as spoilers to the dbacks..i dunno should be exciting, or an enormous let down

2008-09-21 17:11:33
357.   Jon Weisman
Unbridled negativity is no better than unbridled optimism. There are 13 events left in the regular season, and the Dodgers need good results in five.
2008-09-21 17:13:25
358.   Alex41592
I don't believe in stumbling in. If we go 6-0 we could still go down in a sweep. If we 'back' in. We can win still win it all. Just get in.
2008-09-21 17:13:43
359.   Tripon
Best the Dodgers can do right now is 87-75

Best the D'Backs can do is 85-75.

So lets try for 86 wins. :)

2008-09-21 17:19:38
360.   LoneStar7
358 Well I agree that getting in is the main objective, anything can happen once your in.

just because we've been so streaky this year, I wonder if this team is affected by momentum, I'm just saying id rather win our way in than lose and get in by default...but thats sorta stating the obvious.

I'm still very excited though, I like our pitching against almost anyone in the bigs..and when the bats click sparks can fly

2008-09-21 17:19:50
361.   JRSarno
357 - Whatever, positive/negative or neutral, today was unbridled lack of productivity.
2008-09-21 17:25:17
362.   LoneStar7
why exactly is yankee stadium coming down again, just for the sake of renovating and upgrading?
2008-09-21 17:25:34
363.   oshea2002
The Cardinals series is the key. I don't think it's unreasonable to think they'll sweep Colorado. Factor in home, the pitchers, and the way they've played head to head, that will be a sweep. So as Jon said, we need a positive result 5 times. StL has decent guys going in each game, assuming they don't tinker with the lineup or anything, you have to hope/expect a split. That leaves us needing to split the final 6. It should happen.

Not to project ahead, but even if AZ forces a playoff, they'll be going with Scherzerer or Davis.

2008-09-21 17:25:59
364.   Tripon
So the New York Mafia can say they built Yankees Stadium.
2008-09-21 17:27:49
365.   Daniel Zappala
364 My great-grandfather helped lay the bricks. Yes, he was Italian.
2008-09-21 17:29:19
366.   Them Blues
357 Unfortunately, there were 6 events this weekend, and we got a good result in only 1.
2008-09-21 17:29:26
367.   D4P
There's no doubt that Yankee Stadium is not a "nice" stadium in which to watch a game. It's pretty crappy.

But it doesn't necessarily that (1) a new stadium should be built (2) on taxpayer dollars (3) with the existing stadium being demolished.

2008-09-21 17:32:39
368.   Tripon
366 No, it was a net result of two good results. D'backs lost to the Rockies once over the weekend.
2008-09-21 17:32:40
369.   Them Blues
Fan Appreciation Day is a big disappointment compared to the way it used to be. No acknowledgement from the team to the fans whatsoever. Kemp signed autographs for a long time before the game, and the bullpen was having fun with folks in the LF pavillion, but that was it. All of us who went today remembered it being very different in the '80s.
2008-09-21 17:33:48
370.   Daniel Zappala
I don't think it's been mentioned here before in previous discussions on baseball books. "The Wednesday Wars", by Gary D. Schmidt is a fantastic book. If you have a 6th or 7th grader, it is a must-read. It's a Newberry Award winner and a very funny and touching book.

The book has some great scenes where the narrator, a 7th grader, gets to live out some fantasies as a kid in love with the Yankees. He also learns a lot about life lessons by reading Shakespeare with his English teacher. The book takes place in 1967 - 1968, during the Vietnam war, and is a gentle introduction to some of the upheaval the country experienced during that time.

Just an all-around fantastic book.

2008-09-21 17:34:01
371.   Sam PHL
Three weeks ago, I wouldn't believe the Dodgers could be in this position. Bottom line is if they can't get to the playoffs with a 2 or 3 game lead with 6 left to play (against SD and SF), they don't deserve to be there.
2008-09-21 17:34:48
372.   Them Blues
368 My bad. 2 out of 6, a 33% success rate, which doesn't quite give you 5 out of 13.

I'm not trying to be a Chicken Little, but 5 out of 13 is not in the bag.

2008-09-21 17:39:29
373.   Tripon
If MLB really wanted to milk the least game at Yankees Stadium, they should have made it officially the last game of the season, against the Red Sox, and then award a ten game lead for the winner so MLB could scam the Yankees into the postseason.
2008-09-21 17:50:14
374.   oshea2002
373 - at the very least they shouldn't have tried to go up against Pack v. Boys.
2008-09-21 17:51:21
375.   LAT
369. Ditto- but it was Kent signing, not Kemp. (At least that's what I saw). What really annoys me is the way people have to make a single file line and wait while one sacrificial player stands and does autograph duty. Kids can't just go and down and hang at the rail trying to coax a signature out of a player. Its all so sterile now-hardly worth the effort.

That being said we decided to go after Lincincum's auto. He wasn't around but Barry Zito came over and spent a long time signing and was very friendly.

2008-09-21 17:51:42
376.   D4P
Do we know yet who will be the Yankees's opponent in the first game at the new stadium...?
2008-09-21 17:53:52
377.   Eric Stephen
April 16 against Cleveland.
2008-09-21 17:56:37
378.   D4P
Very strange. No big rival in either the last game at the old or the first game at the new.

Also kinda sad that the Dodgers didn't get to play in Yankee Stadium this year or the last few.

2008-09-21 17:57:32
379.   LAT
I was at the game so I couln't really see, was Barroa safe at home (if not should he have been) and was Velez out at 1st in the 11th?
2008-09-21 17:59:20
380.   Tripon
379 Out, and out.
2008-09-21 17:59:23
381.   Eric Stephen
It looked like Molina's glove went under Berroa and that he touched the plate before a tag, but it was close.

Velez looked out, but that was even closer. I initially thought he was safe.

2008-09-21 18:00:10
382.   Tommy Naccarato
357 Yes, I do agree with that. it's just we have a lot of people here that feel that this is a lock when it isn't.

Today's loss as huge in the terms of importance. H-U-G-E. Mostly because we're having trouble beating the Giants and what is upcoming this weekend. History shows us that animosity of these teams and their uncanny ability to derail each other when it counts the most. If there is one game this season that we had to win, this was that game. (IMHO)

Hopefully by this upcoming weekend, you all will be telling me, "I told you so."

I really do hope so...

2008-09-21 18:03:56
383.   LoneStar7
think i spotted a dodgers jersey in yankee stadium, I'm sure many from all over the country did whatever they could to be there though
2008-09-21 18:05:18
384.   Them Blues
369 We saw Bison signing for an extended amount of time out past 3B after warming up.

Zito, by all accounts, is a good dude.

2008-09-21 18:08:28
385.   D4P
Zito, by all accounts, is an overpaid dude.
2008-09-21 18:16:42
386.   KG16
385 - the way I look at sports contracts is that the Giants are paying Zito, in part, for what he did in Oakland.
2008-09-21 18:18:29
387.   D4P
Maybe the Giants look at it that way, too. Maybe chivalry isn't dead, after all.
2008-09-21 18:22:44
388.   KG16
I think that's part of the nature of sports economics. A new contract is a reward for past work and an expectation of what will be done in the future. I'd say probably 30-70.

On a completely unrelated note, I'm watching the Neanderthal Code on National Geographic Channel, kind of interesting so far.

2008-09-21 18:24:48
389.   gibsonhobbs88
Not scoring in the first inning after loading the bases with no one out was a bad omen for the day. Two straight Sundays the Dodgers pitch their butt off but can't hit a lick with runners in scoring position (though Loney got robbed a couple times) and of course, Ethier did hit with a runner on 2nd but Berroa gets thrown out on a bang-bang play at the plate! I just get a bad feeling in my bones (like 1982 deja vu) that they will go into the tank these last 7-9 games and blow the division playing our California rivals who have nothing to lose! Tuesday, who do we face but Dodger Assassin Peavy just itching to put a hurtin' on us!! I went to the game last night but due to the long torture I endured watching the Dodgers ppitch and the early wakeup call for Church deacon duty teh next morning, we left after 7 innings, something I normally never do.
2008-09-21 18:25:04
390.   D4P
But there's really no reason for the current team to reward past work if said past work was done for a different team. Current teams should only care about the future.

Unless you think big league sports are just a scam to get fans to transfer billions of dollars to owners and players. Nah...

2008-09-21 18:30:32
391.   KG16
390 - part of it is revenue sharing. Part of it is the fact that when free agency comes up, you only have what the player did in the past to base what he will do in the future, so essentially, you're paying the guy for what he's done.

And the transfer of money from fans to teams and players is not a scam, it's capitalism. Mutual exploitation.

2008-09-21 19:01:27
392.   underdog
What an incredibly frustrating game, ennit? I just caught up to it via Tivo (after watching the ugly Niners-Kittens game this afternoon at Candlestick) and just still can't believe it. I read most of the comments here so I know I'm repeating things but how frustrating -- especially the number of times that Loney was robbed of an RBI hit, with the Giants diving all over as if playing the 7th game of the World Series. Give credit to them I suppose, for it's different than the Rockies rolling over and dying this weekend. Not suggesting anything untoward but they were pathetic against Arizona this weekend and I hope Clint Hurdle gets an ear infection.

Frustrating, important game and it could've been so different if just any one of a number of moments went differently. That's baseball. Berroa at home looked out after about 20 replays but it was as close as it gets, and Bowa sending him with Manny coming up was what was stupid.

Anyway, they need to take it out on the Padres, take care of business, and then forget this.

2008-09-21 19:10:05
393.   underdog
Oh, and I never thought I'd utter these words, but "Go Cardinals!"
2008-09-21 19:20:43
394.   Eric Stephen
I may be visiting Underdog Land after all.
2008-09-21 19:29:17
395.   underdog
394 Well, cool! I was hoping it wouldn't even matter but it's becoming clearer that Friday at least will likely matter. I hate the thought of the Giants knocking them out in front of Giants fans, but I do like the thought of clinching in front of them!

Maybe we can all get group tix for Saturday's if that still matters.

2008-09-21 19:40:31
396.   Bob Hendley
I hates me dem dern geeants.
2008-09-21 19:48:39
397.   Alex41592
Dodgers clinched in 2004 on the final Saturday of the season vs. San Francisco.

Dodgers clinched in 2006 on the final Saturday of the season vs. San Francisco.

2008 to be determined.

Remember where we were on August 29th? Remember that since then we are 16-5.

2 1/2 game lead.

Magic Number: 5

Arizona doesn't have much success in St. Louis and Brandon Webb has never pitched well there. But, we'll see.

2008-09-21 19:56:18
398.   underdog
397 Thanks, good perspective check! My fingers and toes (and eyes) are crossed.


My fantasy football team would probably win if that was Patrick Crayton instead of Myles Whover catching that long TD for the Cowboys.

2008-09-21 20:10:08
399.   oshea2002
398 - one of my teams is hanging by a thread. I basically just need to avoid a long Rodgers TD pass.
2008-09-21 20:10:30
400.   ucladodger

Bowa should get a whole heap of blame there. Unless you are 100% sure that Berroa is safe, you cannot send him. The ball was hit hard and Rowand had a straight line in to it, so the odds were pretty good he gets off a good throw. You just cannot send Berroa there and take the chance of taking the bat out of Manny's hands with the bases loaded. Just a terrible decision that was the difference in the game.

Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2008-09-21 20:23:30
401.   LoneStar7
man that was a lame angels themed commercial.
2008-09-21 20:29:32
402.   underdog
400 Yeah I agree, it was a huge play and definitely a mistake. You could tell Bowa realized it with how intensely he watched the play at home. He was channeling the Windmill there.

Ah well, I'm gonna take my mind off it for the rest of the evening.

2008-09-21 20:31:27
403.   Alex41592
Dan Ford hit the first HR in this version of Yankee Stadium and Jose Molina is in line to be the last.
2008-09-21 20:32:35
404.   Alex41592
Derek Jeter's last at bat in Yankee Stadium is a groundout to third.
2008-09-21 20:42:07
405.   KG16
This is strange, watching the last game at Yankee Stadium. It almost feels like there is too much history in Yankee Stadium for them to tear it down.

It definitely does not make me want to look forward to that day when Dodger Stadium's day comes.

2008-09-21 20:52:31
406.   underdog
Makes me sad, too. At least this Yankee Stadium was only really erected in the early 70s; the original was long gone, but still, so many memories there, such an important landmark.

I will say, though, that I could live the rest of my life without hearing "New York, New York" again and be perfectly fine with that.

2008-09-21 20:55:32
407.   KG16
I'm kind of bummed that I never got to see a game there. I did drive by it when I was maybe 10, but that was as close as I got.
2008-09-21 21:05:08
408.   Tripon
Why are they tearing it down, and not keeping it as a public park or museum?
2008-09-21 21:05:59
409.   underdog
I saw a couple of games including a much younger Greg Maddux, pitching for the Braves completely shut down the Yankees in a masterful performance. Ah well -- appreciate Dodger Stadium just as we appreciate Vin Scully, because nothing is permanent.


Oh and congratulations to Don Rickles, Emmy winner. (!)

2008-09-21 21:06:29
410.   LogikReader
I'm very fortunate to have made my own trek to the House that Ruth Built. Some of you may remember my trip to NY in early July. Man, it was quite an experience.

I mean, the edifice itself was old. It was cramped, it was outdated, somewhat tacky. But the seats and the field, wow, you felt it, so much history. It felt right... it felt like home (well their home). I'll miss Yankee Stadium.

2008-09-21 21:09:23
411.   LogikReader
Another unrelated train of thought:

The tradition of heartbreak we have here on the Dodgers is not just a phenomenon of the last 20 years. In fact, I think it goes all the way back to the Brooklyn days. Many years of coming so close, only to lose to the Giants or the Yankees, or what have you.

It's frustrating all right, but after a while, I'm almost proud of it. If all they did was win, what fun is that? We already have the Lakers.

2008-09-21 21:23:53
412.   Daniel Zappala
Number of teams in the AP Top 25

Pac-10: 1
Mountain West: 3

2008-09-21 21:30:23
413.   Eric Stephen
I saw a couple of games including a much younger Greg Maddux, pitching for the Braves completely shut down the Yankees in a masterful performance

Underdog, was the game this game?

If so, you might enjoy this Joe Posnanski piece about Maddux and that very same game:

2008-09-21 21:54:19
414.   JRSarno
I hope Albert smashes the Pujols out of the Diamondbacks this week.
2008-09-21 21:58:24
415.   Tripon
Well, this season, the NFC might be the tougher conference.
2008-09-21 22:00:09
416.   trainwreck
I am not digging True Blood.
2008-09-21 22:03:39
417.   KG16
411 - yeah, whenever I get down about the Dodgers losing, I just remind myself that this is the franchise that introduced us to the phrase "Wait 'til next year". We've had more success than the Cubs, but the Dodgers aren't continual winners, there are very few of those in any sport, and most don't last more than a decade (which really makes the Yankees impressive, when you think about it).
2008-09-21 22:47:40
418.   underdog
413 Yes! That was it indeed. Thanks, that piece is great. I should send that to my dad. I remember even though he was a Yankee fan he marveled about Maddux and felt it was almost worth it just to see someone that good. Maybe that's why I'm not hard on the Maddux of today, even if he's a shell of his former self and not doing much for LA at this point. I will always remember that game. And a young Derek Jeter leading off, and doing nothing vs. Maddux. Paul O'Neill, Joe Girardi, yep that was the game.

Okay, back to Mad Men.

2008-09-21 22:55:57
419.   Tripon
Well, Kiffin Lane's nightmare is over. ESPN and Fox Sports is saying he's getting fired on Monday.
2008-09-21 23:01:34
420.   Eric Stephen
We've seen that report before.
2008-09-21 23:06:44
421.   bhsportsguy
So if you are a DT fan, you would have known that "Mad Men," "John Adams" and "30 Rock" were quality shows and their Emmys should not be a surprise.

I am not sure if he was nominated but I felt that David Morse was a better George Washington than Tom Wilkinson's portrayal of Benjamin Franklin.

2008-09-21 23:10:00
422.   bhsportsguy
I may have done it before but I can't recall right now, attending all 3 games (plus what was called a football game in Pasadena), I had enough sports for at least 48 hours.
2008-09-21 23:14:26
423.   trainwreck
We face SD next weekend, so hes guaranteed to be fired within two weeks anyways. Sigh, a bad season looks to be on its way now.
2008-09-21 23:17:19
424.   Eric Stephen
I really like Morse as GW, even though for some reason I was fixated on his nose the whole time.
2008-09-21 23:18:16
425.   Tripon
423 The Chargers aren't great this year, and Davis couldn't fire Kiffin unless he lost, and he lost to the Bills this week.

Its like Al Davis doesn't realize that the offensive players probably thinks Rob Ryan(who the front runner for the job) thinks he's a tool for Davis.

2008-09-21 23:21:00
426.   trainwreck
Too bad Al is Satan, so he will never relinquish control since he will be alive forever.
2008-09-21 23:23:09
427.   bhsportsguy
NL West Race 9/22-9/25 (all times Pacific)

Padres @ Dodgers 9/23-9/25
Jake Peavy (R) v. Chad Billingsley (R) 7:10 p.m.
Wade LeBlanc (L) v. Clayton Kershaw (L) 7:10 p.m.
Sean Estes (L) v. Greg Maddux (R) 7:10 p.m.

Diamondbacks @ Cardinals 9/22-9/25
Brandon Webb (R) v. Todd Wellemeyer (R) 5:15 p.m.
Randy Johnson (L) v. Kyle Lohse (R) 5:15 p.m.
Max Scherzer (R) v. Adam Wainwright (R) 5:15 p.m.
Doug Davis (L) v. Joel Pineiro (R) 11:15 a.m.

2008-09-21 23:46:49
428.   underdog
Poor Lane will soon walk into the light. Hopefully he'll find more peace there. Too bad the wrong guy in that organization is walking into the light.


My predictions, and don't hold me to 'em unless I'm right: Cards-Dbacks split two, Dodgers take two out of three from Padres. (Magic number would be reduced to 1, no?)

I'd like to see a sweep of San Diego, but will stick to my prediction.

2008-09-21 23:47:21
429.   underdog
Split four, two each, I meant to say.
2008-09-21 23:54:38
430.   trainwreck
You guys want to trade us Brandon Marshall for Javon Walker?

Let's face it, his delinquent ways work better with us anyways.

2008-09-21 23:56:26
431.   Eric Stephen
John Clayton just said on ESPN Radio that Marshall will probably catch 140 balls this year. That seems like a lot, but he's off to a heck of a start.
2008-09-22 00:00:44
432.   Eric Stephen
Wade LeBlanc (L) v. Clayton Kershaw (L) 7:10 p.m.
Sean Estes (L) v. Greg Maddux (R) 7:10 p.m.

Dodgers are 29-21 when a LHP starts against them this season, including 3-0 combined against these two this month.

2008-09-22 00:05:40
433.   trainwreck
It feels like we have seen Wade LeBlanc a lot recently.
2008-09-22 00:10:39
434.   Eric Enders
My feelings on Yankee Stadium were nicely summed up by Bud White and Ed Exley:

"You want to tear all that down?"
"With a wrecking ball. You want to help me swing it?"

Yankee Stadium isn't the real Yankee Stadium anyway. That one was torn down in 1974. The current one bears no resemblance to the real thing. It's a vulgar plastic reminder of the 1970s cookie-cutter craze, not a cathedral of baseball history. The Yankees flushed all that history stuff down the toilet with the renovation. The signature copper frieze was torn down and replaced with a smaller concrete facsimile; that should tell you all you need to know about the current Yankee Stadium.

In addition to being ugly and overhyped, it's also not a particularly enjoyable place to watch a game.

Good riddance.

2008-09-22 00:11:36
435.   Eric Stephen
On April 6, 2004, the Dodgers beat the Padres in a game started by young Jake Peavy, then a 22-year old with a 4.25 career ERA (91 ERA+).

Since then, Brad Penny's hunting partner has started 14 games against the Dodgers, and the Padres have been victorious in 13 of those games. Peavy himself is 10-0 in those 14 starts, with a 1.83 ERA over 98.1 IP. Dodger batters have hit .186/.237/.311 against him during that span.

The good news: the one time the Dodgers won a game started by Peavy was 9/18/06.

2008-09-22 00:21:14
436.   Bob Timmermann

That's what I'm talking about!

2008-09-22 00:23:42
437.   Eric Enders
Ooh, I haven't been around much the last few days. Did I miss a frieze-façade beatdown?
2008-09-22 00:31:20
438.   trainwreck
The only stadiums I care about are the ones that my teams play in.
2008-09-22 01:05:22
439.   Eric Enders
Nils Lofgren apparently doesn't share my opinion of Yankee Stadium. He has a new song called "Yankee Stadium" which can be downloaded for free at And who am I to argue with The Swedish Cowboy?
2008-09-22 01:07:17
440.   bhsportsguy
At this point of the 2007 season, the AL was just about set, the Yankees magic number to clinch the wild card was 1.

But in the NL, no race had been decided going into that last week.

The D-Backs had a 3 game lead over the Padres with 6 games left to play (MN 4), the Cubs had a 3 game lead over the Brewers (MN 4), and the Mets had a 2 game lead over the Phillies (MN 5).

In the wild card race, the Phillies and Padres (MN 7) were tied and the Rockies were a game back.

2008-09-22 01:24:50
441.   Sagehen
Jon, can you please do the next few posts in Latin, Middle English, or some other dead language? That seemed to have started the last winning streak. Yes, I do believe you have such magical powers -- ya gotta believe in something.
2008-09-22 06:46:14
442.   Daniel Zappala
370 I just looked up the retrosheet data for the game described in The Wednesday Wars, and it was this game, whose start was indeed delayed by MLK Jr's funeral:

It is described mostly correctly -- Mel Stottlemyre did indeed throw a four-hit shutout, Frank Fernandez hit a home run in the 2nd inning, and Mickey Mantle singled twice. But the author also describes a double play turned by Horace Clark and a strikeout by Joe Pepitone, and these events did not occur.

2008-09-22 07:09:42
443.   Bob Timmermann
No, just practicing eternal vigilance.
2008-09-22 07:16:16
444.   D4P
And irrational exuberance.
2008-09-22 07:18:53
445.   Bob Timmermann
The Griddle has shut down its investment banking sideline.

I will accept regular cash deposits.

2008-09-22 07:37:43
446.   Bumsrap
0 - "Today, the Dodgers find themselves on the verge of heading to the playoffs led by a core that includes 2007 youngsters James Loney, Matt Kemp, Andre Ethier, Russell Martin, Chad Billingsley and Jonathan Broxton - all of whom were simplistically lumped together despite their wide spectrum of behavioral traits - along with 2008 newcomers like Blake DeWitt, Cory Wade and Clayton Kershaw."

Jon, if you merely forgot James Loney and would have included him had you remembered him, would you mind editing your post to include him just for the record?

If you intentionally left him out I was going to ask for your thoughts but then I realized I would be pretty closed minded to any reasons for leaving him out.

2008-09-22 07:43:50
447.   Bumsrap
411 Are you sure you are not a Cubs fan?
2008-09-22 07:45:11
448.   D4P
Loney's MLB ranking among first basemen:

BA: 9/24
OBP: 19/24
SLG: 18/24
OPS: 19/24
HR: T22/40
OPS+: 99

Hard to consider him a "strength" of the team.

2008-09-22 07:53:01
449.   D4P
BTW: I tried to find Loney's sOPS+ on Baseball-Reference, but couldn't...
2008-09-22 08:01:23
450.   Jon Weisman
446 - It was inadvertant, but then, that's what's so great about the word "includes."
Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2008-09-22 08:07:27
451.   LogikReader

Heh heh, nah, I am not a part of that phenomenon. That reminds me, it has been a while since the Cubs and Dodgers were in the playoffs at the same time. In fact, it may have never happened.

2008-09-22 08:14:05
452.   Jon Weisman

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