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About Jon
Thank You For Not ...

1) using profanity or any euphemisms for profanity
2) personally attacking other commenters
3) baiting other commenters
4) arguing for the sake of arguing
5) discussing politics
6) using hyperbole when something less will suffice
7) using sarcasm in a way that can be misinterpreted negatively
8) making the same point over and over again
9) typing "no-hitter" or "perfect game" to describe either in progress
10) being annoyed by the existence of this list
11) commenting under the obvious influence
12) claiming your opinion isn't allowed when it's just being disagreed with

You Rang?
2005-07-27 15:43
by Jon Weisman

Tonight's Game

The explosion began Opening Week, breaking the 200-comment barrier for the first time on Opening Day and the 400-comment barrier the following night.

Since then, there has been ebb and flow, or as I like to call them, Eb 'n' Flo. But Tuesday, thanks in part to my final daylong absence and, for whatever reason, the Cincinnati Reds, we saw a new record - busting past the Willie Mays level and Babe Ruth as well, leaving only Hank Aaron unattained.

Dodger Thoughts Comment Records

July 26 Open Chat: 750 comments
May 10 Open Chat: Catching Up With Davey Lopes (June 28): 661 comments
May 18 Open Chat: Plinko!: 647 comments
May 13 Open Chat: Rogue T-Shirt Night?: 570 comments
If You Have a Guerrero, Throw It to the Sky (June 28): 569 comments

Comments (511)
Show/Hide Comments 1-50
2005-07-27 16:01:21
1.   Xeifrank
It's going to be difficult to break the record when we have multiple threads per day. I think having only one thread per day, a minor league game chat and the Dodger game chat all in one thread has propelled us to recent record levels in posts. Just goes to show what a great site you've put together, to attract such knowledgeable and friendly people, and to top it off by running it on auto pilot and have these kinds of results is amazing. vr, Xei
2005-07-27 16:03:25
2.   Mark Linsey
I think the looming trade deadline, the discovery of the Jax video feed transforming this place into Suns Thoughts, and the continuing collapse of the Padres sending most of us back into denial collectively explain the record-setting comments. And your absence probably contributed, not becuase we don't appreciate your posts but because you often will make multiple posts in a day, splitting that day's comments.

In any case, it's good to have you back.

2005-07-27 16:04:31
3.   Brian Y
anyone think Jose Cruz Jr can help us since he was DFA'd today? And what were the Dbacks thinking putting Green in CF considering Bank One's dimensions in center? I see a lot of triples in that park's future!
2005-07-27 16:07:25
4.   Jon Weisman
It's because of my return and the fact that the record will probably stand for a while that I made note of the record. But you never know ...
2005-07-27 16:08:53
5.   fanerman
#1 just about sums it up.
Trade rumors + the usual Tracy-Choi-DePo-Dunn banter + Suns + Dodgers = 750.

But how about...
Jon article + trade rumors + the usual Tracy-Choi-DePo-Dunn banter + Suns + Dodgers > 1000?

Yeah the bar is a little high there...

2005-07-27 16:13:08
6.   Xeifrank
Re: Diamondbacks moves today.
Who is this Connor Jackson guy? And what's the deal with the DFA of Jose Cruz, the guy has a .786 OPS and can play CF. How does a team go about claiming him? And if you claim him, do you have to pick up his contract too? Someone please explain how this is going to work.
Thanks! vr, Xei
2005-07-27 16:18:36
7.   Jim Hitchcock
Showing my age and general weirdness, for some reason Eb n' Flo made me think of Ma and Pa Kettle.

O.K., maybe that ranks as more than general weirdness...

Thanks to Midwest Blue for rounding out the numbers last night. It was a lot of fun.

'Bout to leave for the stadium. Can't believe I haven't been there since '03. Kinda nice to feel that same ol' sense of anticipation building, though.

Wish us all luck!

2005-07-27 16:18:42
8.   Telemachos
I could be completely wrong, but wouldn't you put in a waiver claim, and then if he falls to you, you can pick him up (and assume his current contract)?
2005-07-27 16:18:55
9.   fanerman
I think I can see your mouth salivating from here. As I understand it, the snakes have a certain period of time (a week I think) to try and trade him, and if not, he can either choose to go back to the dbacks farm system or he can choose to be a free agent. Of course I could be totally wrong.
2005-07-27 16:19:06
10.   Mark Linsey
There is a scenario where I can see us blowing by this record in the next couple of months...

article from Jon + clinching NL West
> 1500?

Last year the site barely cracked 100 when that happened, but I think we've grown much bigger in a year. I for one didn't know about this site a year ago. For how many regulars is this true?

2005-07-27 16:20:02
11.   fanerman
I found out about the site sometime after "The Trade."
2005-07-27 16:20:17
12.   Xeifrank
9. Where's Bob, the walking fact book slash spell checker when you need him!? vr, Xei
2005-07-27 16:20:43
13.   dzzrtRatt
Do the Tucson Sidewinders play in an enormous ballpark? This Conor Jackson guy has hit 38 doubles (he could have had 40, except he hit 2 triples, the fool) but only 8 home runs in 93 games for them this season.
2005-07-27 16:22:02
14.   Xeifrank
13. Yeah I just saw his stats too. Hits for an average (.353) with minimal pop (could be due to a big ballpark like you said), and he doesn't strike out too often (33 in over 300 at bats). vr, Xei
2005-07-27 16:24:15
15.   Jim Hitchcock
Mark, I didn't stumble across the site until two days after the season ended. I was desparate to keep it alive. I found my way to (I think it was) first, spending about an hour reading through the threads, came away distinctly uninspired.

Then I found DT. One of those moments...

2005-07-27 16:25:41
16.   Brian Y
Conor Jackson has GREAT plate discipline and good pop. He is much more than a Mark Grace clone...he is the real deal only his defense keeps him from being really great. He doesn't have a definitive position after being moved to 1B this year from the OF. He can hit though and expect him to hit with the big club. He and Carlos Quentin were 1st Rd picks a few years ago and Quentin is a good OF with more pop but less plate discipline.
2005-07-27 16:25:42
17.   Jim Hitchcock
It's usually not wise to embolden words one intends to misspell.
2005-07-27 16:29:38
18.   Bob Timmermann
Connor Jackson got called up? The Pride of El Camino High? Son of the guy who played the Admiral on "J.A.G."?

The D-Backs are actually showing some sense in getting rid of Cruz. But Green in center field? Woo hoo!

The DBacks have 10 days to figure out Cruz's ultimate, which I imagine will be a release and free agency.

2005-07-27 16:31:02
19.   Vishal
i found dodger thoughts... i think it was april or may of last season. i didn't really comment for a couple of months though. but then, there were only like 5-8 comments per post anyway, i think.
2005-07-27 16:31:50
20.   fanerman
Really? That few comments back in the day?
2005-07-27 16:35:47
21.   Linkmeister
Jon's got the archives, so he can check, but I don't think there were any days when there were as few as 10 comments.

Anybody notice that the Yankees picked up Nomo?

Parenthetically, I wish the Yankees would sink into oblivion so ESPN would be forced to find another team to feature on their regular baseball broadcasts. I'm so sick of them I could spit (and that doesn't even add in my inherent Dodgers-Yankees hatred).

2005-07-27 16:36:41
22.   fanerman
Yeah somebody mentioned that. Now all the Yanks have to do is wait for the Royals to DFA Lima and trade with Texas for Chan Ho.

Brown, Nomo, Lima, Park. What a rotation.

2005-07-27 16:37:47
23.   Bob Timmermann
Random Dodger game callback

July 27, 1935

The Dodgers and Giants didn't like each other much back in 1935 (or
much any other time), but only 8,000 people wandered over to Ebbets
Field to watch the Dodgers get a win over their intracity rivals, 6-4.
The win made the Dodgers 40-49 for the season and they were 17 ½ games
behind the first place Giants.

Brooklyn caught a break in the first when Giants starter Al Smith hurt
his hand trying to field a grounder. In the second, Smith was
obviously bothered by the injury and he gave up four runs. Left
fielder Danny Taylor had a one out walk and came around to score after
singles by right fielder Frenchy Bordagaray and shortstop Jimmy
Jordan. Giants player manager Bill Terry brought in Frank Gabler to

With catcher Al Lopez batting, Bordagaray and Jordan pulled off a
double steal. Lopez then walked to load the bases and pitcher Johnny
Babich singled home two runs. Center fielder Koenecke then drove in a
fourth run on a ground out.

Babich hurt himself in the fourth. He walked Terry to lead off the
inning. Mel Ott then grounded to first baseman Sam Leslie, but Babich
dropped the throw to put runners on first and second. Hank Leiber
doubled in Terry and sent Ott to third. Travis Jackson and Harry
Danning hit consecutive scoring fly balls to make it 4-3 Dodgers.

In the fifth, Jimmy Bucher doubled for the Dodgers and Taylor singled
him to third. Taylor stole second and both men scored on a triple from

The Giants scored a run in the 9th and had the tying run on with one
out when manager Casey Stengel, pulled Babich in favor of veteran Tom
Zachary. Zachary got Jo-Jo Moore to ground into a force play and then
retired Hughie Critz on a grounder to second to end the game.

There weren't many other highlights for the Dodgers in 1935. They
finished 70-83 and 29 ½ games behind the first place Cubs in fifth
place. The last place Boston Braves were 38-115 and 61 ½ games out of
first. The Giants finished in third place.

The 1935 Dodgers were an odd mixture of players. Stengel was one of
the greatest managers ever, but in his second year in Brooklyn, he
wasn't much of a manager. Catcher Lopez would make the Hall of Fame as
a manager. Rookie shortstop Rod Dedeaux would go on to become far more
famous as the coach of the USC baseball team. Veteran pitcher Dazzy
Vance came back for one last season in Brooklyn at age 44.

The Dodgers had little power, hitting only 59 home runs. Shortstop
Lonny Frey led the team with 11. Leslie led the team in hitting at

Watty Clark had a 3.30 ERA and went 13-8 and Van Lingle Mungo was
16-10 with a 3.65 ERA.

Mostly, the 1935 Dodgers were a mixture of guys who were too old or
youngsters who weren't any good.

Center fielder Koenecke was a tragic story though. Stengel was upset
with Koenecke's erratic behavior and insubordination and kicked him
off the team on September 17. He took a plane back home, but became
belligerent on the flight and the pilots of the plane got into a fight
with Koenecke. During the fight, Koenecke was hit in the head with a
fire extinguisher and died of his injuries. Koenecke was 31 years old.
A coroner's inquest in Toronto (the plane was in Canada when the fight
took place) cleared the pilots of any criminal charges.

Thanks to New York Times, and Retrosheet

2005-07-27 16:37:59
24.   Jon Weisman
I've actually done this long enough to have a "back in the day?" Sweet.

Comments weren't even an option until early 2004, and I didn't make it clear that readers were free to open chat until later that year.

2005-07-27 16:38:07
25.   fanerman
Yes I said pretty much what somebody else said in the last comment-round. Sorry.
2005-07-27 16:39:25
26.   Jon Weisman
Wow - never heard that Koenecke story before.
2005-07-27 16:40:45
27.   Steelyeri

I was thinking the same thing. It really seems like everytime i've noticed baseball tonight since the all-star break, the yankees are one of the teams playing. Do they think that everyone loves the yankees as much as they do?

2005-07-27 16:41:49
28.   Xeifrank
21. ESPN has to keep their largest market happy. There's always been and going to be an east coast media bias. It really sucks when it spills over into sports. Having a larger population base plus the time difference plays a large role in this. Thing I hate about travelling to the midwest or east is that you can never get a west coast score due to the time difference or the lack of giving a damm. And it's not easy to access the internet when you're on vacation, so it becomes a vacuum of west coast sports. Luckily, my last midwest trip was synchronized with the large Dodger losing streak (KC, CHI). vr, Xei
2005-07-27 16:42:44
29.   the OZ
I think Billingsley's great start had a lot to do with the "Suns Thoughts" portion of yesterday's madness. That game would have generate much less interest had there not been a one- or two-hitter being pitched.
2005-07-27 16:43:50
30.   Xeifrank
29. I think the "Thrice Thoughts" (Unfortunately) got as much play as the "Suns Thoughts" yesterday. vr, Xei
2005-07-27 16:44:23
31.   Vishal
hah, yeah. i actually looked it up, and i remember articles i read from april 2004... back then, some posts would get very few comments (0-3), and the popular ones (or the topics that started arguments, hah) tended to get into the 15-20 range. the "adrian beltre has arrived" article got 37 comments.

the archives actually make for good reading:

pick a month.

2005-07-27 16:44:56
32.   Bob Timmermann
Vin has told the Koenecke story on the air several times.

He actually manages to do it in a dignified way. Of course, Vin remembers it happening too.

2005-07-27 16:45:32
33.   Linkmeister
The Yankees aren't even an entertaining soap opera anymore.

I'd like to see the Jays, Tigers, Royals, Indians, Brewers etc. once in a while, just because I rarely get a chance. I can see most of the NL on either FSNW2 or TBS. I suppose I could see the AL on FSNW when they show the Angels, but that always seems to conflict with other things, and besides, the Angels' commentators are pretty awful.

2005-07-27 16:46:53
34.   dzzrtRatt
#21 -- usually I'm with you on the Yankees ridiculous dominance of the national media stage, but I have to say this year, they are a story, in a negative sense. A $220 million payroll and they have to sign Nomo? That's not a train wreck, that's Vietnam, with the Yankees playing the part of the pitiful helpless giant. Obviously some of it is bad injury luck (a familiar complaint), but a lot of it is the result of epic mismanagement.
2005-07-27 16:50:23
35.   bigcpa
I'm off to the Adam Dunn scouting trip. I'm supposed to bring my laptop right?
2005-07-27 16:50:48
36.   fanerman
2005-07-27 16:51:41
37.   ddger
35. Maybe there is wireless connection in Dodger Stadium? :)
2005-07-27 16:52:08
38.   Vishal
the yankees really did sign nomo?!?

wow. i thought getting DFA'd by tampa bay was as low as one could possibly go on the majors. little did i know that getting picked up by the yankees was the bottom rung.

2005-07-27 16:52:53
39.   ddger
Good thing we set the Dunn trip tonight so that we can see him instead of last night.
2005-07-27 16:53:16
40.   dzzrtRatt
Re: Random game callback.

I'm amazed that Casey Stengel's managing career started in the 30s. I used to see him when I saw the Mets. How old am I?

Speaking of Stengel, this is kind of cool:

The same site has ads featuring Pee Wee Reese and Leo Durocher.

2005-07-27 16:54:41
41.   Xeifrank
35/36. What do you guys need your laptops for? Sounds pretty serious? Is there a wireless connection? Taking notes in Word? Playing solataire? Can you imagine 7 guys sitting in the same row, all with their laptops spread out typing during the game. Gonna be a serious geek alert in that section. Just tell the screaming beer drinkers in the row behind you that you work for Google Boy. :) vr, Xei
2005-07-27 16:55:21
42.   Jon Weisman
32 - I'm really amazed I haven't heard the story.
2005-07-27 16:55:39
43.   fanerman
The wireless connection bit from #37 was understood in my post. I just kind of jumped the gun and didn't realize they would probably have connection problems at the game.
2005-07-27 16:56:08
44.   Vishal
the face of miss rheingold 1962 is absolutely frightening.
2005-07-27 16:56:10
45.   overkill94
I think I got a link for this place from Dodger Blues, a site that is mostly sarcastic but has some good commentary occasionally.

Although Cruz is a bit of a sabermetrics type guy with his relatively high OPS compared to BA, I don't think the Dodgers have any use for him. There are plenty of other teams needing a CF who will give up something for him (Yankees anyone?).

2005-07-27 16:57:09
46.   ddger
We can take our laptops to take notes. :)
2005-07-27 16:57:55
47.   ddger
Do they allow laptops in the stadium?
2005-07-27 16:58:41
48.   Vishal
i think the laptop thing was a joke. at least, i hope it was. i'm going too. i should leave soon.
2005-07-27 16:59:34
49.   fanerman
An Adam Dunn Scouting Expidition sounds so fun. Have fun and make sure you take detailed notes ;)!
2005-07-27 17:00:00
50.   fanerman
Expedition... I mean.
Show/Hide Comments 51-100
2005-07-27 17:00:16
51.   Linkmeister
Miss Rheingold 1962 kinda sorta resembles Bess Myerson (Miss America, 1950s).
2005-07-27 17:00:27
52.   Eric Enders
Jon -- for the full story on Koenecke, see:

2005-07-27 17:00:30
53.   ddger
Hope Dunn doesn't beat us tonight.
2005-07-27 17:01:15
54.   bokonon42
Anybody watching the Twins game? Did Boone get waved in, or is he just a complete moron?
2005-07-27 17:02:19
55.   Eric Enders
Well, I'm not watching the Twins game, but can nonetheless verify that yes, Bret Boone is a complete moron.
2005-07-27 17:03:36
56.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Re: 18

We may be under-rating Green's defense. Here are his BPro Rate2 stats from 2000-2005:

2000 100
2001 98
2002 107
2003 108
2004 93
2005 109

Green's career figure is 103.

When I saw these numbers, I was very surprised, but to my eye, Green has looked pretty good in OF for the games he's played against us. I think our perception of his defense may be skewed by last season, which was definitely a low for him. Maybe he was distracted, or perhaps last season just wasn't his year defensively.

That being said, CF is a different beast than RF, but I don't think we should count on Green being as awful a CF as his performance last season would suggest.


2005-07-27 17:05:54
57.   dzzrtRatt
I don't know about laptops, but when I used to be a corporate stooge, I brought a Blackberry to a Dodger game and gloated about a Dodger win over the Giants to my Giants fan brother. If any of you guys have Blackberries you can set up a relay system, emailing your moment by moment observations to someone who can cut and paste them onto this site.
2005-07-27 17:08:14
58.   dzzrtRatt
Miss Rheingold was wearing so much hairspray, she probably could've bunted a ball off her head.

She sorta looks like Jackie Kennedy to me, except not beautiful.

2005-07-27 17:08:29
59.   bokonon42
The cut-off man had the ball before Boone had taken his second step toward home.

Jeez, now Jeter gets cut down at the plate. Is there any way to chalk this up to the Moneyball witchcraft?

2005-07-27 17:12:40
60.   GoBears
56: After the transition from Mondesi to Green, my impression was that Mondy was the best I'd seen at charging the ball in RF, but was pretty bad at going back on balls over his head, while Green was the opposite. The question in CF is whether he has the speed to play shallow enough to take advantage of his strengths. My guess is that he's not fast enough.
2005-07-27 17:12:49
61.   Bob Timmermann
I would assume you can bring a laptop in to Dodger Stadium, but I have no idea what you would do with it except use it for shade. It's not a wireless hotspot.

Are there any stadiums that are wireless hotspots aside from San Francisco in the majors?

2005-07-27 17:14:20
62.   Bob Timmermann
I don't think I have any future RDGCs that are as gruesome or downbeat as the tale of Len Koenecke.

Well, except for the ends of the 1962 and 1982 seasons.

2005-07-27 17:19:23
63.   Bob Timmermann
Al Leiter is channeling Kaz Ishii in his pitching tonight.

10 of the first 20 Twins have reached against him and only one has scored.

2005-07-27 17:24:50
64.   Xeifrank
Over/Under for Jeff Weaver tonight is 7 IPs.
vr, Xei
2005-07-27 17:31:16
65.   LetsGoDodgers
Bob T. - you don't need a hotspot to connect a laptop to the internet at Dodger Stadium. What you do need is an overpriced EDGE or EV-DO plan (and PCMCIA card) from a wireless carrier like Cingular or Verizon.
2005-07-27 17:35:34
66.   Benaiah
40 - That reminds me of this ad in our library (they have an exhibit on old 60s ads) of Sandy Koufax wearing one of those ghastly 60s shirts with a caption "Sandy used to wear a sail shaped shirt, now he wears a man shaped shirt!" The tight fitting dress shirt was thankfully retired before my time.
2005-07-27 17:40:45
67.   Steve
Yeah the bar is a little high there...

Yes. Yes. It is.

2005-07-27 17:41:57
68.   Marty
Headin out tothe stadium...I sure hope Dunn's in the lineup tonight!
2005-07-27 17:45:15
69.   dzzrtRatt
Interesting observation on Ducksnorts, the Padre fan blog. If you throw out May, the Dodgers have the best record in the division--albeit a record under .500.

Also, if you throw out May, the Padres are only a game better than the Rockies.

non-May May
LA 34 37 303 315 11 17 120 150
Ari 32 41 313 387 16 12 127 143
SF 31 40 329 370 11 16 104 138
SD 28 43 272 325 22 6 160 117
Col 26 43 306 389 9 20 118 156

2005-07-27 18:15:13
70.   GoBears
Did DT break? Comment #69 was 30 minutes ago! Maybe everyone went to the game...
2005-07-27 18:18:15
71.   bokonon42
Dunn's in the lineup and hitting cleanup. Cinci must have known the DT scouting expedition was coming. Tracy might have, too; no Choi.
2005-07-27 18:18:52
72.   King of the Hobos
SS Izturis
3B Robles
CF Bradley
2B Kent
1B Saenz
LF Ledee
C Phillips
RF Repko
P Weaver

Werth out with a bum knee supposedly.

2005-07-27 18:22:57
73.   GoBears
I'm listening to "Vin Scully: Voice of Heaven" linked on the site. Good way to warm up for the game, I think.
2005-07-27 18:25:41
74.   Bob Timmermann
Tonight it the big Dunn scouting expedition so I assume many regulars are at the game.

Just a few of us left to keep the faith.

We've gone past Barry Bonds 2001!

2005-07-27 18:25:41
75.   capdodger
Ortiz must have funky arm angles.
2005-07-27 18:27:01
76.   Bob Timmermann had said that Tracy "vowed" not to start Saenz on consecutive days.

If that's what Tracy's vows are like, I would ask Mrs. Tracy to call Mr. Tracy a lot on the next road trip.

2005-07-27 18:28:07
77.   bokonon42

2B Freel
SS Lopez
CF Griffey
LF Dunn
1B Casey
RF Kearns
C Valentin
3B Encarnacion
P Ortiz

2005-07-27 18:31:16
78.   Bob Timmermann
Vin pronounces "Kearns" with an initial "ah" sound. But I've heard other say it with Kern County?

So which is right?

2005-07-27 18:31:34
79.   Fearing Blue
#76: Indeed. It seems that Tracy has given up all pretense and officially anointed Saenz as the everyday first baseman and Choi as left out. Choi has not started for 3 straight games, two of which were against RHP.
2005-07-27 18:33:16
80.   bokonon42
78- According to ESPN it's properly pronounced not applicable. What's that, Dutch?
2005-07-27 18:33:50
81.   Jon Weisman
Am I crazy - didn't Saenz pinch hit last night?

79 - that pretense was given up ages ago

2005-07-27 18:33:51
82.   Christina
Well, I'm stuck working late because I'm off to Ohio on Friday and so I need to catch up on work now. So I'll be here with y'all.

To add to the wireless discussion, I use my cell from the Coliseum all the time to check the net. I could even post that way, if I was blessed with far more patience than I actually possess. I hope we do hear from our intrepid band of Dunn scouts tonight...

2005-07-27 18:35:28
83.   capdodger
Good one, Bob.

Tracy is the king of saying one thing, doing another, asking himself why and then answering his own question.

2005-07-27 18:36:31
84.   brendan glynn

Bob, vinny is right. Kearns is Irish. I have a few Kearns in the family tree.

2005-07-27 18:38:43
85.   Bob Timmermann
Dodger Stadium is not known for its technological innovations. When I was the press box in 2000 I believe, before its current renovation into the Vin Scully Press Box, I noticed that all the phones installed there were rotary dial phones. Most of them you had to ask an operator for an outside line.

There has been a new phone system installed. And the phones have buttons that say "Home bullpen" and "Visitors bullpen". I wanted to call and get somebody warmed up.

But I was just there for the LA City High School championship and they don't keep extra pitchers down in the bullpen. They just tell the kids to run down to warm up from the bench.

2005-07-27 18:39:15
86.   brendan glynn
is Izzy batting leadoff? or was that just the defensive lineup given?
2005-07-27 18:39:35
87.   Bob Timmermann
You're right. Saenz entered as a double switch.
2005-07-27 18:40:34
88.   Christina
86 - Izzy is indeed batting leadoff.
2005-07-27 18:40:39
89.   bokonon42
81- Not crazy. He pinch hit in the seventh, and moved to first when Kent went back to second.
2005-07-27 18:41:09
90.   Fearing Blue
#81: Saenz pinch hit, but then stayed in for the 9th. It seems like an odd usage pattern to start / pinch hit Saenz against RHP and sit him against LHP, but it's hard to argue much since it seems to be working.
2005-07-27 18:43:13
91.   King of the Hobos
Izzy is in leadoff

Also, Ramon Hernandez is having surgery, so the Padres will have to now use Fick and Nevin.

2005-07-27 18:44:09
92.   Bob Timmermann
It was a pledge, not a vow.

This was in the notes column on on July 24

"More on the lineup: Tracy kept his pledge not to start Olmedo Saenz or Ricky Ledee on consecutive games, even though Saenz homered with three RBIs on Saturday and Ledee had an RBI single.

Hee-Seop Choi was back in the lineup at first base for Saenz, and Mike Edwards started in left field for Ledee. Saenz is 4-for-19 as a pinch-hitter; Ledee is 7-for-15. Choi batted sixth, Edwards seventh and Rose eighth. Jayson Werth was moved up from seventh to fifth in the order."

2005-07-27 18:44:30
93.   bokonon42
90- It's always easy to argue. It's hard to formulate the perfect plan for kidnapping Tracy and re-educating him. But he's giving me plenty of time to plot. Er, um, I mean, if I were so disposed. Which I'm not. But if I were. . .
2005-07-27 18:45:57
Re 73. Im doing the same thing, its great. I hope Vin is still announcing in 2008 when we win the World Series on the fifteeth anniversary of the Dodgers first season in LA. I guess hed say nothing though.
2005-07-27 18:49:51
95.   Bob Timmermann
So Austin Kearns is the Irish Bill Mueller?

The weird thing is that Bill Mueller is "Miller" while former Giant Don Mueller was said with an "oo" sound. Both guys are from the same part of the world: St. Louis/Western Illinois.

My father saw Bill Mueller's name and without prompting pronounced his name as "Miller" because he said there was a whole family of them where he grew up.

And if you were in Germany, the name would be Müller.

2005-07-27 18:55:35
96.   brendan glynn


2005-07-27 18:56:51
97.   brendan glynn
bases loaded in top of the 10th for Angels vs Toronto.

B Molina at the plate.

2005-07-27 18:56:54
98.   Strike4
Throw in Joe Moeller to mull over.
2005-07-27 18:57:54
99.   brendan glynn
hit back to the box. bottom 10 they go
2005-07-27 18:59:48
100.   jasonungar05
did anyone but me watch that interview with depo on FSN Dodger Pregame?


-not (certainly hope not) breaking up ML roster to bring in anyone

-will move prospects

-wants a bat and some help in the pen

-said all the right things.

-if we loose the next 5, he still will go after help, if we win the next 5 he will still go after help

Show/Hide Comments 101-150
2005-07-27 19:02:24
101.   brendan glynn

I had it on but didn't pay attention. I figured he would say nothing important or I wouldn't believe what he said no matter what he said. I think he is a big fake signal type of guy. As most GM's are, I guess.

2005-07-27 19:09:24
102.   Christina
I'd personally parse DePo's comments here as falling into three categories:
1) Stating the obvious. Everyone knows we need a bat, so it costs DePo no leverage to admit it.
2) Dangling the carrots of the prospects for other GMs to see what kind of offers he can get.
3) Trying to scare some of the on-the-bubble teams into becoming sellers by declaring he's not giving up on this season.
2005-07-27 19:11:10
103.   Bob Timmermann
Dodgers vs. Ramon Ortiz
Bradley 1-8, HR
Choi 1-2
Edwards 2-3, 3B
Izturis 0-7
Kent 1-6
Ledee 3-14
Penny 1-2
APerez 0-3
Phillips 0-2
Saenz 2-6

Reds vs Weaver
Aurilia 2-6
Casey 3-11
Cruz 0-10
Dunn 4-7
Freel 3-6 (updated as I type)
Griffey 1-12, HR
LaRue 1-9
Lopez 4-19
Milton 1-2, HR
Pena 0-3
Valentin 1-9

2005-07-27 19:15:51
104.   andyhavok
Would anybody actually be more comfortable trading prospects rather than trading from the Major League team? It's not like we've got a ton of chemistry to break up.
2005-07-27 19:17:29
105.   Bob Timmermann
Chemistry? Even Vin is getting Ledee and Repko confused!
2005-07-27 19:19:05
106.   brendan glynn

depends on the deal. I wouldn't mind a little of both.

2005-07-27 19:21:09
107.   bill cox
Are we still taking trade combos for Dunn.I was thinking Jackson,Hanrahan,Sanchez and Aybar.
Hanrahan made his case with a good outing last night while the the bad Edwin showed up tonight.Aybar is a smooth player,but I'd like one of the second basemen with a bigger stick like D. Young or Nate's boy ,Denker.
2005-07-27 19:22:13
108.   brendan glynn
I wonder if Steve ever found a radio station in which to listen to the Dodgers while in Ontario
2005-07-27 19:23:03
109.   KAYVMON
What is Milton doing? If he really wants to be the most beloved Dodger, then swing away, and if you fail, break your bat over your knee.
2005-07-27 19:23:08
110.   brendan glynn
I like playing the Reds
2005-07-27 19:24:56
111.   andyhavok
106: I don't know about DePodesta looking for a reliever, relievers are pretty unpredictable in terms of success, and I'd rather have Broxton come up to help the big club.

I'm very wary of trying to acquire Adam Dunn as well. Though he hits the ball a mile, no doubt, his splits and RISP stats don't make me feel very comfortable. On one hand, I'm comforted by the fact that we'll keep at least either Guzman or LaRoche because we need a third baseman for next year.

2005-07-27 19:25:39
112.   King of the Hobos
Abraham Nunez just tripled in a run, Cards leads the Pads 1-0
2005-07-27 19:26:00
113.   Bob Timmermann
1-0 Redbirds on an RBI triple from Nunez.
2005-07-27 19:26:06
114.   Identity Crisis
107. Don't forget Abreu in Vero Beach =)
2005-07-27 19:27:02
115.   Christina
111 - I rather wonder if the bullpen talk from DePo isn't just to get an arm that he can then flip to another club that wants bullpen help in exchange for something else that he really wants. That way DePo can hold onto one more of our minor league arms than otherwise...
2005-07-27 19:27:48
116.   Bob Timmermann
Adam Dunn goes back on fly balls like an old Al Oliver.

At least on that hit by Kent.

2005-07-27 19:28:05
117.   Eric L

The guys who know more about the youngins than I do can probably give a better ETA, but I doubt that LaRoche or Guzman will be manning 3rd base for the Dodgers next year.

2005-07-27 19:28:27
118.   JSN
I thought Kent's double was gone for sure when it left his bat. Oh well.
2005-07-27 19:28:27
119.   Christina
Yay for Kent!
2005-07-27 19:28:34
120.   KAYVMON
M-V-P! M-V-P! Hyperbole is fun.
2005-07-27 19:29:01
121.   Identity Crisis
114. Of course he doesn't really hit the ball hard =/ Missed that part of your comment.
2005-07-27 19:29:12
122.   andyhavok
Wow, Jeff Kent has been coming through big time the past week or so.

Holy moly, Olmedo. He'll probably be sat for Choi tomorrow.

2005-07-27 19:29:16
123.   brendan glynn
here's to broken Pledges
2005-07-27 19:29:20
124.   King of the Hobos
For now, I'm not going to complain about Choi not playing
2005-07-27 19:29:36
125.   JSN
I just don't see Depo wasting his time trading for bullpen help when there are arms aplenty he could give a shot to, such as Kuo.
2005-07-27 19:29:52
126.   Bob Timmermann
Funny how Vin gave the home run call on Kent's double, but didn't do it on Saenz's home run?
2005-07-27 19:29:55
127.   Christina
2005-07-27 19:31:37
128.   Benaiah
107 - Hey Bill do you think that is enough? I think we might have to replace Hanranhan with Tiffany.
2005-07-27 19:31:37
129.   andyhavok
Olmedo's turning into the L.A. version of Bonds. He should've pulled a Willie Mays Hayes and waved bye, hah.
2005-07-27 19:31:46
130.   bokonon42
Isn't it obvious that Olmedo is juicing? I just hope he can get away with it all season.
2005-07-27 19:34:47
131.   brendan glynn

I thought Olmedo's was going foul and Kent's looked like an HR swing.

Bob, if a player hits a ball dowwn the line like Olmedo did and it stays fair for a HR but he does not leave the batter box is the ball still an HR? I recall something like that with Rick Monday in a game in Cincy where he hit the ball and faile to leave the batter's box because he thought it was going foul. Because he failed to leave the BB the umpire called it foul.

My friends say I am crazy and there is nothing in the rule book and it would be against the spirit of the rules in the first place. Maybe it was a dream.

2005-07-27 19:34:52
132.   Benaiah
I like what Jon says about Choi vs Saenz, all things considered Tracy is just going with the player who has performed better this year. I think Choi could outslugg Saenz given steady playing time, but that seems unlikely.

By the way, what is up with the team all of a sudden? I know it is the Road Reds who are a sub .300 team but we actually look good out there.

2005-07-27 19:35:07
133.   Bob Timmermann
BBref lists Frank Howards specs at 6'7" and 255 lbs.

He probably looked bigger in his day because players were a little smaller then so Howard stood out more.

But my memories of seeing Frank Howard play (and they're pretty hazy since he retired when I was a wee lad) were that he was one enormous man.

2005-07-27 19:36:31
134.   JSN
On tv I could see Dunn chatting it up with Olmedo. "So where are some good places to eat in L.A...."
2005-07-27 19:36:47
135.   brendan glynn
wow. vin just said that only 15 players have ever reached the loge section where Olmedo just hit it.
2005-07-27 19:38:03
136.   Bob Timmermann
I wouldn't take rules advice from Rick Monday. I think Monday was saying that an umpire may be more likely to call the ball fair if the batter thinks it is fair. If you hit the ball over the fence, it's a home run. If you refuse to run, you're out. That's in the rules.

There's a rule also that states that if you're on third with the bases loaded and you get walked in to score a run and refuse to move, you're out.

I have no idea why anyone would do this.

2005-07-27 19:38:28
137.   bokonon42
I guess I'm happy that Izzy didn't get spiked there, but it makes me wonder if Dunn has the heart to play this game. He could have cracked Izturis's shin in half on that play.
2005-07-27 19:38:59
138.   JSN
Maybe if they were on a team with bad chemistry.
2005-07-27 19:39:19
139.   Bob Timmermann

While guys like Frank Howard and Dave Parker and Andruw Jones have done it, Hiram Bocachica has also done it.

2005-07-27 19:39:49
140.   Christina
136 - it seems someone must have in the past, for them to write up a rule about such a nonsensical situation.
2005-07-27 19:40:44
141.   brendan glynn

I figured it would be dumb but didn't know if there was some arcane rule. much like your home team electing to bat first up until 1950


2005-07-27 19:42:59
142.   brendan glynn

why would you hurt your future teammate?

2005-07-27 19:47:28
143.   Christina
Weaver sure caught up on his pitch count in a hurry - he's at 32 now, when he finished the first inning with just 5 pitches.
2005-07-27 19:47:58
144.   JSN
I know this has come up before but I forget the solution. Can internet explorer be automatically refreshed, say every thirty seconds? Thanks.
2005-07-27 19:49:13
145.   bokonon42
I don't think Dunn is moving. I don't think anybody big is. The underlying message of Moneyball was that baseballers do whatever is least likely to get them fired. Nobody wants to be the next idiot-blood spigot.
2005-07-27 19:49:19
146.   gvette
#139 Believe Nick Esasky did it. Otherwise, don't think I would have any reason to remember him.
2005-07-27 19:49:43
147.   King of the Hobos
Repko loves the 2nd inning
2005-07-27 19:50:32
148.   Benaiah
Ortiz gets behind in the count on nearly every batter. Hopefully we can continue to make him pay for it.
2005-07-27 19:50:39
149.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
I'm starting to warm to Scrapko. If he can really figure out how to hit, he'd be an excellent 4th OF next season.


2005-07-27 19:51:24
150.   Christina
Hee, infield single for Weaver.
Show/Hide Comments 151-200
2005-07-27 19:51:25
151.   King of the Hobos
Ortiz has no chance at the gold glove anytime soon
2005-07-27 19:51:40
152.   andyhavok
Haha, I love watching Weaver hit and run, it's like watching a pile of elbows and knees fly down the base line.
2005-07-27 19:51:55
153.   Benaiah
Wow that was nice! Weaver with the fake bunt.
2005-07-27 19:51:56
154.   Wayne Wei-siang Hsieh
Looks like we're even catching some breaks now. Regression to the mean in our favor for once.

If Olmedo continues to hit like this, I guess we can't really complain about Choi sitting. I'm a huge Choi guy, and even I have to admit that.


2005-07-27 19:52:58
155.   Underbruin
I hope everybody else enjoyed the little-league move by Weaver there. :)

Reminds me of the tricks I always used to TRY and pull.

2005-07-27 19:55:07
156.   Underbruin
154 - There's no way we couldn't move Saenz to 3rd? It's not as if we have any other good defenders at the position at the moment, really. I'd like to see Big Choi get a shot in the lineup everyday, and I don't want to have to lose Olmaedo's bat to do it...
2005-07-27 19:56:06
157.   Benaiah
155 - Yeah, I seem to remember the fake bunt usually resulting in a hurried awkard swing.
2005-07-27 19:56:23
158.   Christina
I think Weaver wants this game a lot - if he gets the win, he moves 1 game over .500.
2005-07-27 19:57:23
159.   Underbruin
Ghah, Klesko HiDP with bases loaded and one out. When Vin was setting up the moment, I was anticipating hearing "former Dodger Shawn Green..."
2005-07-27 19:57:45
160.   andyhavok
156, we could move Saenz to third, but only to let Antonio Perez play second and Kent to first.
2005-07-27 20:00:36
161.   Christina
156 - I do remember days where Saenz and Choi have both started. But then we get into the issue of the offensive performance of Robles and Perez...and what it really comes down to, in the end, is that JT refuses to sit Izzy. Izzy is the sticking point.

I like Izzy, but I really wouldn't mind if we traded him for someone else. I don't know if any teams want a defensive upgrade in SS badly enough to give us a lot for him, though.

2005-07-27 20:01:09
162.   Bob Timmermann
Vin is right about teams collapsing because they can't hit.

He must remember 1962 and 1982. The Dodgers had some wickedly long scoreless streaks down the stretch that year.

Down the stretch in 1982, the Dodgers got shutout by the awesome Padre tandem of John Montefusco and Luis DeLeon.

In the Dodgers last 3 games in 1962 before the tiebreaker, they scored 2 runs total against the Cardinals.

2005-07-27 20:01:15
163.   Underbruin
160 - I still think Izturis hit himself out of a job - I'd rather see Perez get time at SS. He's still hitting .330 over 175 or so AB.
2005-07-27 20:02:34
164.   jpeace

Robles has made some great plays at third and seems to be a lot better there than anyone else.

I too enjoy seeing Choi at the plate. He's been improving defensively too. But, being that he won't be seeing much pt, I hope Choi improves as a pinch hitter.

2005-07-27 20:04:37
165.   Flax Seed Allstar
Concerning Dunn's mediocrity when it came to RISP I posted the following on the Dodgers MB the other day:

True, his BA is poor with RISP, but his OPS is .981, including a .467 OBP and he has 6 HR (all in 72 AB with RISP).

His OPS ranks 33rd among NL hitters with at least 25 AB with RISP which granted, is not great, but it is not at all bad. He is still ahead of Bobby Abreu, Mike Cameron, Mike Piazza, David Wright, and Todd Helton - all of which have higher BA than Dunn.

It is also interesting to note that Dunn has a .250 BA with RISP w/ 2 outs and his OPS is 1.123 with an OBP of .529. This would rank him 13th among NL hitters, just behind Pujols and ahead of all Dodger hitters.

2005-07-27 20:04:56
166.   Underbruin
161, 164 - I guess you're right. -shrug- I just can't condone JT's blatant favoritism, and it really grates on me, especially when it's at the expense of one of my favorite players.
2005-07-27 20:08:00
167.   Benaiah
If this was a day game that would be Kent's second home run of the night.
2005-07-27 20:10:35
168.   andyhavok
At what point has Hee Seop justified consistant plate appearances every day? Maybe after his 6 home run tear, but after that weekend he hit the floor. I personally am tired of watching Choi being unable to drive in runs. He's had more chances to hit than Olmedo, yet Olmedo's shown no ill effects from sporadic play. Then again, Olmedo IS "a truly professional hitter."
2005-07-27 20:14:07
169.   Benaiah
165 - One of the problems with using OPS as a predictor with RISP is that AVG might actually be more important than OPS in this situation. Since a single or a triple will both score a runner from third and sometimes second. By only batting in the low low 200s with RISP his is minimizing the value of his high OPS in those situations. I would rather have three singles than a double, a walk and a K in three RISP situations. Again, I love Dunn and often the flux with RISP is such that it doesn't prove to be a good indicator of "clutchness."
2005-07-27 20:15:36
170.   Bob Timmermann
George Foster, Greg Vaughn.
2005-07-27 20:15:36
171.   Underbruin
168 - See, that's the rub. I just get the sense that he's the sort of player who will flourish under consistent PA - he seems streaky, sure, but it often feels like after a good streak, one or two cold days lands him right back on the bench instead of JT affording him the opportunity to try and keep grooving the ball.

Also, he's one of the few Dodgers who hits the ball consistently hard, with the 5th best slugging percentage. And like I said, I don't want to substitute Choi for Saenz, I want to get them both in (probably at the expense of Izturis)

2005-07-27 20:15:48
172.   Christina
168 - some players need regular playing time in order to hit well. Meanwhile Olmedo is a veteran, so perhaps that's why he hits well off the bench.

But when this is really coming down to Choi over Izturis, what has Izzy done to justify his constant playing time even when he was mired in his 0-for-200 slump? This would be my preferred lineup until Drew gets back:

Then when Drew got back he could take Repko's place.

2005-07-27 20:17:31
173.   Benaiah
168 - Certain players respond to situations differently. Choi seems to be a streak hitter who needs to start regularly to get in a rhythm, while evidently Saenz is comfortable with spot starting and platooning. Saenz is an older, more expierenced hitter, who has spent years as a pinch hitter so that might explain why he is comfortable in those situations.
2005-07-27 20:18:03
174.   Langhorne
I would look for a deal for Izzy the way the Reds seem to be handling Dunn. A GM is going to have to way over-pay for him. I like Perez at the plate but he's a big downgrade defensively and on the basepaths. That may change with experience but for now I'll take Izturis even if he doesn't have another hit this season, unless some team wants to pay through the nose for him.
2005-07-27 20:18:12
175.   Underbruin
... Then again, maybe it's a good thing Saenz isn't in at 3rd and Choi at 1st. Nice pickup. :)
2005-07-27 20:20:53
176.   Bob Timmermann
Dang it, I could have sworn Vaughn had a 49 homer year!

But he hit only 45 for the Reds.

2005-07-27 20:22:35
177.   andyhavok
Izzy's justified his constant playing time with his gold glove and his great start to the season.

Choi's been shaky at first base and even cost the team a game against St. Louis early in the year.

Izturis is starting to hit again, and he's already got a RBI sacrifice fly tonight. Choi has gotten 241 at bats this year, good for 5th on the team. Looking at his swing, can you honestly believe that he'll be able to overcome his glaring inability to hit for contact?

And 172, do you think that Perez is fit for the outfield right now even though it's been said by a coach that he's not ready for the outfield?

2005-07-27 20:23:55
178.   regfairfield
Choi's last five starts

1 for 3
2 for 3
0 for 5
2 for 5
2 for 3

Repko's last five starts

1 for 3
0 for 3
0 for 4
1 for 3
3 for 4

Saenz's last five starts

1 for 5
0 for 4
0 for 4
2 for 4
3 for 4

In this incredibly small sample size, Choi has been just as effective as Saenz and Repko. (I know this neglects important stats) The difference? Does anyone doubt that Repko and Saenz's performances will earn them tenure, while no matter what Choi does he'll languish on the bench?

I'm still waiting for the bottom to drop out on Saenz against right handed pitching, since he has proved himself horribly ineffective against it through out his career.

2005-07-27 20:27:13
179.   Underbruin
177 - "and his great start to the season."

So Izzy has a streak and it justifies a start. Choi has several streaks, and it doesn't? Choi is ahead of Izzy in every single offensive category except BA, even despite his sporadic playing time (which I do believe contributes to his offensive problems) and cold spells. Including an OPS 132 points higher than Izzy. For a Dodger team that has more problems with scoring runs than getting hits, I'd take the higher SLG and OPS of Choi.

It's true Izzy's a great defender, but that just means we should be able to get more for him in a trade, which is what I think we need to do with him.

2005-07-27 20:30:12
180.   regfairfield
179 - To be fair, it was one hell of a streak.
2005-07-27 20:30:27
181.   capdodger
Choi would have had that one... He's longer. His D has improved somewhat as of late because he's been working with the staff on it.
2005-07-27 20:32:42
182.   Christina
177 - just about any player will occasionally cost his team a win. Izzy and Choi have both won games for us and cost games for us.

Perez is a defensive liability in the infield too, so I'd actually prefer seeing him in LF than the infield, all things considered. Quite a few LF players in MLB are defensively questionable.

2005-07-27 20:33:17
183.   andyhavok

Actually, it was a great two months to start the season, I wouldn't just call it a "streak." I think his Gold Glove season is enough to justify another season of starts, don't you?


I'm looking at the game log for Hee Seop and I don't see the same stats for the last 5 starts as you have put out.

2005-07-27 20:34:50
184.   capdodger
180: Also regarding that streak:

He didn't cool off on the Tuesday just after that streak. In fact, he hit a HR against KC. He cooled off slowly. What's annoying to many here is that all it takes is an 0-fer, a 1-fer, or a failure in a clutch pinch-hit situation and Choi ends up back on the end of the bench.

That Saenz is doing so well serves as some consolation, but he seems due for some regression to his mean. He's also old.

2005-07-27 20:35:10
185.   regfairfield
183 - Are you sure you aren't counting his 0 for 1s as pinch hitters?
2005-07-27 20:35:38
186.   Underbruin
180 - This is true. But so was the 6-HR series, though admittedly over a much smaller time period. And Choi was sitting again 4 games later.
2005-07-27 20:36:32
187.   regfairfield
Wow, that was a poorly constructed sentence.
2005-07-27 20:37:12
188.   Underbruin
184 - I think he meant Izturis's streak was the 'one hell of a streak.'

On another note, am I the only one who seems to think every single ball is being misplayed in some fashion by the Reds infield? It's uncanny - it looks like they're LUCKY to only have a couple of errors.

2005-07-27 20:37:28
189.   capdodger
183 - His Gold Glove season was last year. It entitles him to nothing but a nice trophy to put on his mantle.
2005-07-27 20:37:58
190.   Underbruin
187 - mine?
2005-07-27 20:38:22
191.   regfairfield
186 - Don't get me wrong, I'm firmly in the Choi camp, but to call two months of .350 hitting a streak is misleading.
2005-07-27 20:38:56
192.   Christina
183 - I would be fine with Izzy's Gold Glove getting him another season of starts IF our main problem was not offense. (Never mind tonight's game - beating up Ortiz is no great accomplishment.) Seeing as we do have trouble scoring runs, Izzy keeping an additional power bat out of the line-up is an issue.
2005-07-27 20:39:39
193.   Bob Timmermann
The Reds have made fewer errors than the Dodgers this year. 58 to 64 coming into the game.

Obviously it's now 60 for the Reds.

2005-07-27 20:40:22
194.   Underbruin
191 et al. - Okay, fair enough. It wasn't a streak. But then, neither was his regression over the LAST two months.
2005-07-27 20:40:33
195.   capdodger
192 - "Beating up"?

We've only got 4 runs. I guess that's a beat-down Dodger style, eh?

2005-07-27 20:41:16
196.   Ryan Jerz

Yeah, but going from around .350 to around .270 in the same span is equally brutal. That just might get someone benched anywhere else.

2005-07-27 20:41:41
197.   Bob Timmermann
The Reds are 29th in Defensive Efficiency however, just ahead of the Rockies.

Oakland is best in that category.

But Billy Beane doesn't value defense.

2005-07-27 20:41:59
198.   andyhavok
185 - yes, I'm looking at the games where he got 3 or more at bats.

After the big deadline trade last year, I was very defensive about Choi, it possibly could have been buyer's remorse speaking for me, but I always wanted to give him a chance. However, when he goes on oh-fer streaks like he's prone to do, there's no justifying keeping him in, especially given his history. If he can't hit, he's really utterly worthless. Even his sought after ability to get walks seems to have decreased this year.

I will concede that he's looked better on defense, as evidenced by the 2nd game of the Mets series, but baseball is a game where you have to consistently prove yourself to get at bats. It might not seem like it with Jason Grabowski getting at bats, but it's a fact of baseball. It may not be fair, but it's not fair either to keep playing Choi when there are better options out there.

2005-07-27 20:42:19
199.   capdodger
OK, Jeff... Shake it off, please?
2005-07-27 20:42:29
200.   Christina
195 - unfortunately we tailed off after the first couple of innings. Our batters are apparently so surprised at the 4 runs they put up they've decided there's no need for more.

But for two innings, it was a nice beatdown. ;)

Show/Hide Comments 201-250
2005-07-27 20:43:07
201.   overkill94
Anybody else notice that St. Louis' line-up isn't so fearsome anymore with Rolen, Walker, and Sanders injured? The only guys to truly worry about are Pujols and Edmonds. Maybe this weekend won't be so tough after all, especially since we don't have to face Carpenter.
2005-07-27 20:43:39
202.   Underbruin
193 - That's just rather sad, isn't it? But I'm talking about this game in particular. The Reds appear to be misplaying just about every ground ball in SOME fashion (example: the grounder back to Ortiz two innings ago, I think it was - he just lobbed it to Casey, but he threw it about 5 feet short and Casey had to come off the bag to catch it, then go back to tag the base).
2005-07-27 20:43:40
203.   regfairfield
197 - I can't believe that people still believe that, despite dozens of reports to the fact that the current team is built on defense.
2005-07-27 20:44:57
204.   Ryan Jerz
Another guy to get his share of O'fers is named Kent. Wasn't there a post here earlier in the season about streaky hitters that featured Kent? The point made there was that streaky guys need to make adjustments to get out of the bad times. The difference between Kent and Choi is that Kent is in there every single day, getting at bats to adjut.
2005-07-27 20:46:14
205.   Underbruin
203 - But... But... It's BILLY BEANE! He hates fast players with good batting averages! If you do anything other than walk and HR, you're not an Oakland A player. Beane wrote Moneyball! He's the biggest ego in the game!

My lobotomy was just last tuesday, you think it went well?

2005-07-27 20:46:26
206.   Langhorne
Izzy is still the best defensive SS on the team although Robles has done very well. Oscar has lost his bat as quickly as he found it. I'd like to see Perez in Las Vegas. We have five outfielders on the roster and Valentin is getting a crash course. There's no place for Antonio.
2005-07-27 20:46:40
207.   andyhavok
183 - Actually, I don't think our main problem is offense. The bullpen is the biggest liability, and we need the best defense out there to try to cover for their inevitable mistakes. A .237 hitter and a sub-Mendoza line hitter with RISP and sub par defensive skills will hurt more than help.
2005-07-27 20:47:03
208.   regfairfield
198 - You're right, the last 2 for 3 should be an 0 for 3.
2005-07-27 20:47:43
209.   Christina
198 - what you said about needing to consistently prove yourself to get at bats is not necessarily true. If you are a veteran, then yes. But young players usually have ups and downs, and they generally benefit from being allowed to play through those, instead of being sat.

And further, JT has benched Choi irrespective of his performance. It's useless to talk of Choi earning regular playing time, because as far as JT is concerned, there's apparently nothing Choi can do to earn regular playing time.

2005-07-27 20:50:16
210.   Fearing Blue
#198: I'm very concerned that the same reasoning will be applied by Jim Tracy and fans when our prospects start coming up. Young players need playing time to get better and often you need to be willing to go with the worse player in the short term for a long term benefit. Choi is only 26 years old and has never received consistent playing time. I'm not a huge fan of Scioscia's running game, but his handling of Dallas McPherson has been very good. He has justifiably given Dallas McPherson a long leash when there were other options available (Figgins, Izturis, etc.). If you're always trying to win now at the expense of winning later, you'll likely never win.
2005-07-27 20:52:39
211.   Christina
207 - I agree the bullpen is a huge liability, but consider that a lot of the runs they give up are home runs, which a defense can do nothing about. Now if we had a more high-octane offense, where we aren't in one-run games so much, then some of the pressure would be off the bullpen. But either way, we do need a better bullpen, period.
2005-07-27 20:52:50
212.   Bob Timmermann
If you come to my home and I'm watching the World Dart Championships, please call 911 and have me taken far, far away.
2005-07-27 20:53:55
213.   capdodger
Weaver to start the 7th?

Good idea? Bad idea? Tracy asleep and drooling on the linup card again?

2005-07-27 20:54:15
214.   Underbruin
207 - As opposed to a guy who has batted like Christian Guzman since June?

The Dodger bullpen is a problem, yes. But staking them to bigger leads can never hurt - and if you look at the LADs's performances over the last few weeks, they seem to have a propensity for getting plenty of hits with few runs to show for it. While their 5th-best slugger languishes on the bench.

In addition, Choi's OBP is actually better than Izzy's, now. Despite an AVG 32 points lower. Because plate discipline is so unimportant.

That's not even going into the numerous management issues Tracy has with his bullpen (Cararra and Erickson, anybody?).

2005-07-27 20:55:29
215.   regfairfield
213 - I can live with it.
2005-07-27 20:58:04
216.   Underbruin
213 - He's doing okay. Nice strikeout on Encarnacion there.
2005-07-27 20:58:37
217.   Christina
215 - I can live with it too. Bad bullpen, bottom of the order, may as well let Weaver try to go 7.
2005-07-27 20:58:59
218.   andyhavok
213 - I'd rather just skip the Sanchez/Carrara - Schmoll connection and go straight to Schmoll thank you very much.
2005-07-27 20:59:39
219.   King of the Hobos
That's not good...
2005-07-27 20:59:43
220.   Underbruin
... Methinks we all spoke too soon (including me.)


2005-07-27 21:00:08
221.   andyhavok
Haha, scratch that.

It's tough to be Jim Tracy, you're damned if you do, you're damned if you don't.

2005-07-27 21:00:17
222.   capdodger
Choi and his .237 BA still has a better OBP than Izzy with his .270. (.321 vs .318)

He slugs .120 better as well.

In short, he makes fewer outs and gains more bases.

2005-07-27 21:01:06
223.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
The fact Cruz is a Sun Devil takes only the merest slice of the sting off that homer.
2005-07-27 21:02:50
224.   Bob Timmermann
Let's test Vin's memory.

The 1951 Dodgers scored 132 runs in 27 games in September. That's 4.9 per game. The Giants averaged 5.1 the same month.

In August of 1951 they scored 159 runs in 32 games. Which is just about 5.0 runs per game.

In August of 1962, the Dodgers scored 132 runs in 29 games, an average of 4.6 runs.

In September of 1962, the Dodgers scored 111 runs in 27 games, an average of 4.1 runs. The Giants averaged 4.8 runs.

2005-07-27 21:03:04
225.   Underbruin
Ugh. That throw was well-placed, too. Just. Too. Slow.
2005-07-27 21:03:08
226.   King of the Hobos
Phillips finally got close at least
2005-07-27 21:03:38
227.   regfairfield
Tracy made the right move, I can't fault him for that. Much like I'll fault him for letting Repko touch a bat no matter what the end result is.
2005-07-27 21:04:25
228.   Bob Timmermann
It's just not the same to watch this inning without Steve around. This is the inning where Steve would shine.
2005-07-27 21:04:30
229.   King of the Hobos
Not what we needed. Hopefully the hitting picks back up, and Alvarez doesn't blow this thing open wider.
2005-07-27 21:04:34
230.   the OZ
Wow, we were ahead 4-2, like, 90 seconds ago.
2005-07-27 21:04:40
231.   Underbruin
Effin. Effin. A.
2005-07-27 21:04:58
232.   Benaiah
Ugh Tracy, you are so awful. Weaver ran into a wall and Tracy left him in too long. After the 2 run shot you have got to pull him.
2005-07-27 21:06:13
233.   Underbruin
You could almost cut-and-paste his comments, by now. Something about Weaver's gummy-arm. Something about Tracy being a moron. Something about another wasted game.

Then a throwawayline about the bar.

2005-07-27 21:06:31
234.   overkill94
Meltdown Weaver strikes again!
2005-07-27 21:06:59
235.   regfairfield
232 - Bear in mind that Sanchez had probably thrown about 4 pitches at that point. There is no way you can bring him in that fast.
2005-07-27 21:06:59
236.   the OZ
I admit that I was thinking, "I bet this pinch-hitter homers." Sure enough, it happened.
2005-07-27 21:07:02
237.   capdodger
Sigh... You could hook a buggy up to the hitch in Phillips' throw down to second.

And now we get the by the book sub.

2005-07-27 21:07:42
238.   Underbruin
... I love watching the Dodgers give up 2-out rallies. Fun times.
2005-07-27 21:07:51
239.   regfairfield
However, I will easily fault him for bringing in Alvarez.
2005-07-27 21:07:58
240.   overkill94
Alvarez is the worst situational lefty ever, I don't remember the last time he got one out.
2005-07-27 21:08:24
241.   Underbruin
236 - It's your fault, then!
2005-07-27 21:08:26
242.   Bob Timmermann
Alvarez got a DP from Rollins in Philly.
2005-07-27 21:09:10
243.   the OZ
Dear Jim Tracy -

You noticed that Wilson Alvarez is left-handed. Congratulations! Now please realize that HE HAS NO HISTORY OF EFFECTIVENESS AGAINST LEFT HANDED BATTERS.


Better Minds

2005-07-27 21:09:45
244.   Steve
You could almost cut-and-paste his comments, by now. Something about Weaver's gummy-arm. Something about Tracy being a moron. Something about another wasted game.

The only mistake Tracy has made in this inning is bringing in Hideo Alvarez.

2005-07-27 21:09:55
245.   capdodger
2005-07-27 21:11:04
246.   Benaiah
235 - True that. I still like Weaver, and he is great at what he does (6-7 innings of 2-3 run ball) but when he gets tired it is ugly. Tracy seems to wait until the wheels come off before he has a plan in place.
2005-07-27 21:11:23
247.   Underbruin
A sighting!
2005-07-27 21:11:39
248.   overkill94
Why is everyone comparing Choi to Izturis? With our defense not being what it once was, it's nice haveing a GOLD GLOVER holding down the most important spot on the diamond. His hot start got everyone's expectations way too high, can we just accept that he's a .270-.280 slap hitter with great defense and leave it at that?
2005-07-27 21:12:11
249.   Bob Timmermann
Lisa Simpson is in the house!
2005-07-27 21:12:24
250.   Steve
Let's see...

"Jeff Weaver has a gummy arm"

"Jim Tracy is a moron"

I can't think of a bar line right now, sorry.

Show/Hide Comments 251-300
2005-07-27 21:13:07
251.   Underbruin
I'd take 2-3.


2005-07-27 21:13:10
252.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
OK, we slapped Belisle around last night. We can do it again, right?
2005-07-27 21:13:13
253.   dzzrtRatt
"Any day now/any day now/I shall be released."

-- Joan Baez

"Trade for me, and Wilson Alvarez can be released."

-- Dennys Baez

2005-07-27 21:14:15
254.   Steve
244 -- I just joined in. When I wrote that, Yahoo had told me that Weaver had thrown 89 pitches. Now I see that he threw 105. Yeah, Jim Tracy is a moron. Cut and paste, etc.
2005-07-27 21:15:16
255.   capdodger
248 - Sure. But that doesn't explain why he's leading off.
2005-07-27 21:16:28
256.   capdodger
Looks like a line drive in the box score.
2005-07-27 21:16:56
257.   Christina
254 - yeah, Weaver was at 94 or 95 pitches when he started the 7th. I still don't really have a problem with him starting the 7th, though, given the only pitchers in our bullpen I can stand to look at are Schmoll and Braz.
2005-07-27 21:17:33
258.   Steve
Izturis and his .600 OPS don't even rate as a slaphitter, and his defense isn't that good anyway. He's in the middle of the pack in NL shortstops in Defensive WS.
2005-07-27 21:17:37
259.   Jon Weisman
Can anyone explain to me why my Gameday would have stopped updating on its own?
2005-07-27 21:18:02
260.   overkill94
Re 255:

The mind of Tracy shant be delved into

2005-07-27 21:18:34
261.   Underbruin
259 - Trying to save you the mental anguish?
2005-07-27 21:18:38
262.   capdodger
We do have to remember this is the Red's bullpen.

And this guy... Why's he hitting second??? 0 fer last week?

2005-07-27 21:18:56
263.   overkill94
Good lord, over 47,000 for a Wednesday night game against the Reds? Eat your heart out San Diego!
2005-07-27 21:19:51
264.   Bob Timmermann
Somedays Gameday gets too much traffic. But most often, it's a case where the person inputting the data has screwed up and has to go back and correct mistakes.
2005-07-27 21:20:16
265.   Christina
258 - true. His Gold Glove was for last season, and I don't see him repeating this season by any means.

Sentiment for the past will get you...the SF Giants.

259 - Jon, I gave up Gameday a long time ago for Sportsline. Not only does it perform better, but I've actually grown to like its interface better as well, once I adjusted to the look.

2005-07-27 21:20:38
266.   stubbs
the robles bandwagon has hit the serious skids. it might be time to go with the guy that has been doing it all year...AP.
2005-07-27 21:21:03
267.   overkill94
Come on Monopoly boy, pass Go! Collect $200!
2005-07-27 21:21:12
268.   capdodger
Darn. No Kreuter Principle there.

Come on Milton...

2005-07-27 21:21:19
269.   Underbruin
... 2nd and 3rd, 2 out, Milt at the plate. Just a little positive timing would be nice...
2005-07-27 21:21:44
270.   Bob Timmermann
I don't know if Robles had a bandwagon as much as just a small pickup truck with a guy using a Mr. Microphone.
2005-07-27 21:21:45
271.   Steve
But it was a productive out!
2005-07-27 21:21:55
272.   regfairfield
Do you think people realized that Oscar Robles is much worse when you just keep throwing strikes?

I like his approach, no doubt, but having two guys who you know can't do anything but hit singles at the top of the order is very tough.

2005-07-27 21:22:07
273.   Jon Weisman
264 - No, it's been this way for a while. It's a problem with my computer - I think it's working at work.
2005-07-27 21:22:20
274.   King of the Hobos
2005-07-27 21:22:33
275.   overkill94
I think he gets a Get Out of Jail Free card
2005-07-27 21:22:33
276.   Underbruin
2005-07-27 21:22:34
277.   capdodger
Inferno Yeah!!! Way to go Milt.
2005-07-27 21:22:39
278.   Christina
2005-07-27 21:22:56
279.   regfairfield
Thank god for BABIP.
2005-07-27 21:23:08
280.   Benaiah
Miracle of miracles!
2005-07-27 21:23:46
281.   Bob Timmermann
Stupid clutch hits ruining my jokes.
2005-07-27 21:24:34
282.   Steve
Milton Bradley -- Bringing DT regulars together since Late September 2004
2005-07-27 21:24:58
283.   Underbruin
"...thought he had a winner in Belisle..."

Am I the only one who thought that line from Vinny was rather amusing?

2005-07-27 21:25:03
284.   capdodger
Karros praising Tracy's coconut radio construction skills on ESPN. Bleh...
2005-07-27 21:25:24
285.   Benaiah
After much consideration I have decided to not attempt a Krueter for Saenz. Bring a leg Olmedo.
2005-07-27 21:26:05
286.   stubbs
kent loves the first pitch...reminds me a lot of cory snyder.

the robles era should end at 0-35. any takers?

2005-07-27 21:26:06
287.   alex 7
does choi stay in at 1st and Saenz moves to 3rd? Or will this be Tracy valuing D at 3B over Choi's stick/walks.
2005-07-27 21:26:13
288.   Steve
284 - Well, Repko is hitting eighth. Baby steps.
2005-07-27 21:26:20
289.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Told ya!
2005-07-27 21:27:18
290.   capdodger
28 - I'm going to take the over on that one.
2005-07-27 21:27:29
291.   the OZ
Tied after 7 - I like our chances.
2005-07-27 21:27:30
292.   Bob Timmermann
I would think that Saenz would be taken out now since he made the last out. But who knows.
2005-07-27 21:27:33
293.   Underbruin
I think he keeps Hee-Seop in. The game's still tied. If the Dodgers had gotten a hit out of Saenz, maybe he keeps in the better D. I dunno.
2005-07-27 21:27:53
294.   stubbs
287-choi's stick? choi is currently showering.
2005-07-27 21:28:05
295.   regfairfield
I really hope that if Robles takes another few 0fers, that he doesn't block Valentin, or (unrealistically hoping) Perez.
2005-07-27 21:28:26
296.   capdodger
Oops... Should have been:
286 - I'm going to take the over on that one.
2005-07-27 21:29:13
297.   Steve
Robles at SS. Perez at 3B. Izturis as defensive replacement and designated pinch-runner.
2005-07-27 21:29:28
298.   Xeifrank
Well over 600 posts when you combine the two threads from today. Hope the Dunn expedition team is having fun. Wonder where they're sitting!
vr, Xei
2005-07-27 21:30:15
299.   Xeifrank
DT Over/Under Challenge update...

7/27, Cincinnati vs Jeff Weaver
Actual: 6-2/3
Colorado Blue: 7 (Win)
Joekings: 7-1/3
Louis in SF: 6-2/3 (Win)
Xeifrank: 7
Howard: 6-1/3 (Win)
CT Bum: No Pick
Louis in SF 5-2-2
Howard 7-4-2
Joekings 4-4-1
CT Bum 5-5-3
Xeifrank 5-6-2
Colorado Blue 5-8-0

Next Game: Cincy vs DJ Houlton

2005-07-27 21:31:05
300.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Speaking of Belisle, anyone ever eat at the Anaheim restaurant of the same name? Massive portions.
Show/Hide Comments 301-350
2005-07-27 21:31:11
301.   Xeifrank
How wonderful it is to listen to Joe Morgan on the ESPN broadcast of the Cardinals/Padres game. :)
vr, Xei
2005-07-27 21:32:40
302.   Xeifrank
Seems like Vin is doing just as much play by play of the Padres game as he is of the Dodgers game. vr, Xei
2005-07-27 21:32:49
303.   stubbs
Jason Marquis is still in the game?
2005-07-27 21:32:58
304.   Bob Timmermann
I'm using Picture-in-picture which makes it pretty hard to follow either game I've learned.

I have no idea how Vin does this.

2005-07-27 21:33:26
305.   overkill94
Everytime our offense gives us hope, the bullpen pulls another one out of their hat
2005-07-27 21:33:32
306.   Bob Timmermann
Marquis is still out there. And after the double, he's still in there.
2005-07-27 21:33:34
307.   King of the Hobos
Sanchez isn't going to make this easy
2005-07-27 21:34:50
308.   Xeifrank
Marquis has thrown 126 pitches.
vr, Xei
2005-07-27 21:34:53
309.   dzzrtRatt
"He loves his damned old rodeo as much as he loves me/Someday soon, goin' with him, someday soon."

-- Joan Baez

"He loves his damned old LOOGY more than he loves winning the division. Someday soon, Kuo, Broxton and me, someday soon."

-- Dennys Baez

2005-07-27 21:35:33
310.   King of the Hobos
Padres just won 2-1
2005-07-27 21:35:37
311.   Xeifrank
Game over on his 132nd pitch.
vr, Xei
2005-07-27 21:35:43
312.   Bob Timmermann
Marquis threw 132 pitches.

But no more.

2005-07-27 21:35:45
313.   Underbruin
Dammit, Padres win.
2005-07-27 21:36:00
314.   capdodger
Need to win to keep pace. SD wins 2-1.
2005-07-27 21:36:13
315.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
2005-07-27 21:36:24
316.   the OZ
Tony LaRussa, Greatest Manager of our time.
2005-07-27 21:36:29
317.   regfairfield
Despite having a decent bullpen, LaRussa leaves in Jason Marquis for his 130th+ pitch and suffers a predictable result.
2005-07-27 21:36:34
318.   stubbs
what a sad division, padres celebrating like they won the pennant after beating a depleted Cardinal team still using their starter after 130 pitches.
2005-07-27 21:36:57
319.   Bob Timmermann
Three games going in the majors.

One in Los Angeles
One in Seattle
One in Baltimore

2005-07-27 21:36:58
320.   capdodger
OK Duaner... Bear down. You've got to get this last batter.
2005-07-27 21:38:14
321.   regfairfield
Duaner just left my doghouse.
2005-07-27 21:38:22
322.   Bob Timmermann
The Orioles and Rangers have combined so far for 16 runs, 30 hits, 4 errors and 15 walks.
2005-07-27 21:38:33
323.   Steve
Nice of LaRussa to throw the game and keep the NL West leader over .500.
2005-07-27 21:38:47
324.   capdodger
316 - Or so he says in the book he wrote about himself. Which I've never read. And never will. Because I know what it says.

Nice innning for Sanchez after the two-bagger down the line.

2005-07-27 21:38:48
325.   dzzrtRatt
I should say DANYS Baez

Man, Sanchez is throwing the crap out of the ball. He hears footsteps.

2005-07-27 21:39:14
326.   Underbruin
322 - A sterling example of mistake-free baseball, I'm sure.
2005-07-27 21:39:15
327.   Bob Timmermann
Make that 19 runs and 31 hits after Gary Matthews Jr hits a 3-run homer.

I fully expect Baltimore to score three to tie.

2005-07-27 21:41:25
328.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Ooooh. Nice snag.
2005-07-27 21:41:49
329.   Xeifrank
Robles, 0 for his last 21. Is it time to jump off the bandwagon yet? vr, Xei
2005-07-27 21:42:31
330.   capdodger
Too bad he didn't lose that weight. Oh well.
2005-07-27 21:46:11
331.   Xeifrank
When are major league players going to learn that diving/sliding into first place actually slows you down. Only time to do it is if you are going to be tagged.
vr, Xei
2005-07-27 21:46:44
332.   Xeifrank
331. haha, first base, not first place. Morganian slip.
2005-07-27 21:47:41
333.   bokonon42
Wow. Just got back and read through the comments I missed; whole lotta blasphemy going on, eh? Backing the assertion that Choi can't hit because of his BARISP is like saying Carlos Lee is the third best hitter in the MLB because he has the third most RBIs.
2005-07-27 21:48:23
334.   the OZ
It seems that they're more likely to slide on certain types on contact - slow rollers and grounders deep to the SS's right side, figuring that those types of plays are more likely to draw an errant throw that pulls the 1B.

Repko's grounder might qualify as one of those.

2005-07-27 21:48:43
335.   King of the Hobos
If anyone is curious about Valentin, he went 0-2 with 2 BBs and a K. He had exactly one ball hit to him, a single.
2005-07-27 21:48:53
336.   capdodger
Let's go Ghame Over. Fend them off.
2005-07-27 21:49:01
337.   Bob Timmermann
See comment 270.

The Rangers have James Baldwin pitching.

James Baldwin!

2005-07-27 21:50:28
338.   Bob Timmermann
Apparently he wants to be called James Baldwin Jr. now.

James Baldwin may have been the only Dodger slower than Jason Phillips.

2005-07-27 21:51:20
339.   Xeifrank
Uh oh, a Freel walk is as good as a double.
vr, Xei
2005-07-27 21:51:32
340.   King of the Hobos
We needed Freel on base again?
2005-07-27 21:52:16
341.   capdodger
Oh the Bases on Balls...


2005-07-27 21:52:37
342.   Xeifrank
337. haha! Mr. Microphone. :)
2005-07-27 21:52:51
343.   overkill94
How many times can we pitch out and still let the guy make it?
2005-07-27 21:52:55
344.   Gold Star for Robot Boy
Not even with a pitchout?
2005-07-27 21:52:59
345.   Xeifrank
Pitch out and still steals 2nd easily. :(
2005-07-27 21:53:19
346.   King of the Hobos
Freel beats them on a pitch out? I hate to say it, but we really do need Navarro
2005-07-27 21:53:39
347.   stubbs
this jason phillips madness has to stop...i know defense isnt a top priority here, but someone agree with me please
2005-07-27 21:53:45
348.   overkill94
Good lord, and i have that guy on the bench of my fantasy team :(
2005-07-27 21:53:47
349.   Xeifrank
My god, can he still home next??? What's the MLB record for steals in a game?
vr, Xei
2005-07-27 21:53:52
350.   Christina
Deja vu trois.
Show/Hide Comments 351-400
2005-07-27 21:53:54
351.   King of the Hobos
C'mon Phillips, this is sad
2005-07-27 21:54:05
352.   the OZ
What's sad is Phillips made a good throw. He just takes about half a second to get into throwing position.
2005-07-27 21:54:43
353.   overkill94
I am sooooo sick of runners running wild on the bases, it's just one of those sick feelings you know you can't do anything about.
2005-07-27 21:54:53
354.   Xeifrank
Can we have Valentin play some AAA games at catcher instead of LF? or trade for Nevin?
vr, Xei
2005-07-27 21:55:21
355.   King of the Hobos
We really didn't need that on a night where both the Padres and Dbacks won.
2005-07-27 21:55:24
356.   Steve
347 -- Talk to Tracy. Allegedly, Phillips is a "professional hitter."
2005-07-27 21:55:41
357.   Bob Timmermann
The major league record is 6 stolen bases in one game if you want to count stolen bases from the time that they stopped awarding them for just taking an extra base on hit.
2005-07-27 21:55:43
358.   Xeifrank
6 is the record! Thanks Vin.
vr, Xei
2005-07-27 21:55:48
359.   brendan glynn
because freel is acting like such a fool in the dugout I expect the dodgers to tie the game in the bottom of the ninth.
2005-07-27 21:56:02
360.   overkill94
I knew walking Freel was going to be a huge mistake.
2005-07-27 21:56:04
361.   the OZ
OK, this is ridiculous. This could be only be frustration talking, but Phillips has proven he can't play defensively at this level.

Why not Navarro, unless he's about to be dealt? He's at least an average defensive catcher, right?

2005-07-27 21:56:12
362.   Xeifrank
Like the old saying, "a walk is as good as a triple". vr, Xei
2005-07-27 21:56:46
363.   King of the Hobos
There is some good news however, Rose will start tomorrow. While his arm is about as good as Phillips, maybe the Reds don't know that
2005-07-27 21:56:46
364.   Bob Timmermann
Eric Young's 6-steal game came against the Dodgers playing for the Rockies.

2005-07-27 21:56:54
365.   Johnson
Good ol' Charlie Steiner, after saying 'En-Cah-Nar-Cee-Ohn' all night (heck, all year) appears to be making reverse progress. He just referred back to Duaner's Ks last inning, and pulled out an 'En-Car-Say-Nee-Ohn'. Oh, well.

At least he can pronounce "Ryan Freel" and "five stolen bases" correctly.

2005-07-27 21:56:55
366.   Rob M
I don't know if you can put all the blame on Phillips. On the pitchout, Brazoban took forever to get the ball to the plate. Why not slide step on that play?

On the steal of third, he stole on Yhency again. Granted, Phillips has slow feet. His throws were fine in both cases.

2005-07-27 21:57:10
367.   Xeifrank
I can see it now. LA Times sports page headline reads... "Reds Steal Game"
vr, Xei
2005-07-27 21:57:16
368.   regfairfield
Well, this ensures I'll avoid any mainstream media coverage of this game.
2005-07-27 21:57:24
369.   sanchez101
so he is completely useless defensively, and has a obp under 300. Are you sure this isnt dave ross in disguise? Dioner Navarro has a great arm and throws out 1/3 base stealers, OBP: 360's. I think his time has come.
2005-07-27 21:57:29
370.   capdodger
This is nuts. He's double-clutching every single time. Choi could probably steal off of him.
2005-07-27 21:57:48
371.   Bob Timmermann
It also would have been irrelevant if Brazoban hadn't walked Freel to begin with.
2005-07-27 21:58:50
372.   Xeifrank
367. Or... "Red Takes Five"
2005-07-27 21:59:17
373.   Christina
371 - Braz just wants to make sure we're not bored. It's very thoughtful of him, really.
2005-07-27 21:59:20
374.   Steve
371 -- Yeah, first I'm thinking, how the hell did Ryan Freel get on base four times tonight.

But remember everyone, Jason Phillips hits .300 with RISP so he must be a real important cog in this lineup. Very special man here.

2005-07-27 22:00:21
375.   Xeifrank
Steve! How'd the exam go? You're not out drinking??? vr, Xei
2005-07-27 22:00:35
376.   regfairfield
374 - Doesn't Ryan Freel have a very good OBP? (this is just off the top of my head, it could have dropped significantly as of late.)
2005-07-27 22:00:59
377.   Bob Timmermann
And which catcher holds the American League record for most steals allowed in a game?

Branch Rickey, 13.

That's the post-1900 high.

Rickey's bad day was June 28, 1907.

2005-07-27 22:01:09
378.   King of the Hobos
370 If Phillips was 2 different players, he could steal off himself
2005-07-27 22:01:11
379.   Ryan Jerz

He is double clutching. I haven't been against Phillips to this point, bu seeing that replay on the steal of second, I realized he may be a major liability.

2005-07-27 22:02:07
380.   stubbs
brazoban should be getting some flack for walking freel, but this phillips situation has to end soon.
2005-07-27 22:02:17
381.   sanchez101
i was away, so this is a couple innings late, but Jeff Weaver is completely useless as a major league competitor. Is there any hope? Does he need therapy? Im sure everyone saw the melt down coming after the homerun.
2005-07-27 22:02:29
382.   Steve
I've still got a day left. But I have wireless in the hotel and a desire not to study.

376 -- That was more a statement about everyone's favorite $10 million bonghead than about Freel, who is one guy who with his .370+ OBP capability may in fact live up to the hype.

2005-07-27 22:02:39
383.   Xeifrank
Mr. Microphone is our last hope?
vr, Xei
2005-07-27 22:02:51
384.   regfairfield
Maybe if he weren't playing in 85% of the games, he might still be useful.

Remember, we got him for Ishii, we traded him for Ishii...

2005-07-27 22:04:29
385.   Xeifrank
Oh well, one step closer to "acceptance".
vr, Xei
2005-07-27 22:04:31
386.   Steve
This is much easier to take when, like me, you stick with acceptance and don't move off of it.
2005-07-27 22:04:34
387.   capdodger
How do you double clutch on a pitchout.

It defeats the purpose: To get the catcher out from behind home plate and into throwing position for a quick turnaound and strong throw.

If he double clutches it's no better than a calling for a fasball off the plate.

2005-07-27 22:06:44
388.   the OZ
381 - sometimes pitchers give up homeruns. It happens. I don't know that giving up homeruns after 100 or so pitches is an indictment of psyche or character.

Short of Rick Ankiel, pitchers don't need therapy to help them.

2005-07-27 22:06:50
389.   bokonon42
374- .300 with RISP? Jason Phillips: So clutch, he's double clutch.
2005-07-27 22:09:20
390.   Fearing Blue
#388: Exactly. And I imagine it's pretty common for a pitcher to "fall apart" after giving up a homerun, since giving up the homerun is a likely sign they're not pitching well.
2005-07-27 22:10:08
391.   overkill94
How did Phillips ever make it as a catcher with his double-clutch throws? Besides the RBIs, this guy has done absolutely nothing for this team, time for the Dioner era to begin.
2005-07-27 22:10:37
392.   the OZ
Looking at the replays in the wrap-up show, Phillips has broken the 'set feet and bring arm to throwing position' into two separate steps. First he sets the feet, then he cocks the arm, then he throws (late).

Pudge was on the Fox baseball show last saturday talking about throwing to the bases. He was a good example of setting the feet and readying the arm in a single quick move.

2005-07-27 22:10:39
393.   Tommy Naccarato
I think this website has officially "Jumped The Shark."
2005-07-27 22:10:55
394.   Steve
Phillips with RISP

299 .350 .517 .867

Phillips without RISP

.236 .289 .351 .641

He's like a walking advertisement for the uselessness of the stat. But it's why Tracy was batting him fourth for a while.

I'm ok with Phillips, given that we were going in with Ross, and we got rid of Ishii. He's basically been as advertised. But in 2006, DePo has to bite the bullet and give Navarro/Martin every shot to win the job out of ST.

2005-07-27 22:11:03
395.   sanchez101
388 - weaver does this all the time, the slightest bit of adversity, something doesnt go his way, everything falls apart. Im not falting him for the homerun, im falting him for the double after. We have seen this time and time again, its like he can never get over the 2003 world series.
2005-07-27 22:11:38
396.   capdodger
381 - Weaver was very useful..... For 6 innings. Then he did what he's prone to doing late in games: blow up.

Tracy was asleep at the wheel again, and to compound his mistake, brought in Alverez to pitch to LHBs.

384 - True. We traded one hypertension inducing player for another of a different type. He's a cheaper one at that!

2005-07-27 22:12:09
397.   the OZ
393 - thanks for the heads-up.
2005-07-27 22:14:14
398.   sanchez101
There is really no reason for phillips to be anything more than a backup, and he shouldnt be starting full time for the dodgers anymore, not if theyre think they can catch san diego. If navarro isnt called up, what message is that sending to the fans. "Ya, we know the guy cant hit or defend his position, but we think navarro needs more time ..." His time is now, if somebody wants a catcher send him phillips.
2005-07-27 22:14:26
399.   Christina
394 - Steve, I agree. I don't think we were deceived somehow with Phillips. There's a reason the guy's only costing 339K.

395 - Weaver's actually done a nice job in some recent games of pulling himself together and battling through situations. I think tonight the fact he was over 100 pitches had more to do with it than anything.

2005-07-27 22:15:25
400.   bokonon42
393- Uh-oh. Where do the cool Dodger fans hang out now? Is there a secret handshake?
Show/Hide Comments 401-450
2005-07-27 22:16:00
401.   overkill94
Gubicza has a lot more faith in Antonio Perez than Tracy, here's Guby's line-up if the Dodgers trade for Dunn:

1. Izturis
2. Perez
3. Bradley
4. Kent
5. Dunn
6. Phillips
7. Ledee/Werth
8. Edwards/Robles

at least I thin that's what it was, couldn't type fast enough

2005-07-27 22:16:07
402.   overkill94
Gubicza has a lot more faith in Antonio Perez than Tracy, here's Guby's line-up if the Dodgers trade for Dunn:

1. Izturis
2. Perez
3. Bradley
4. Kent
5. Dunn
6. Phillips
7. Ledee/Werth
8. Edwards/Robles

at least I think that's what it was, couldn't type fast enough

2005-07-27 22:16:14
403.   greenchris
Let's look past Freel nabbing 5 bases tonight off of Phillips...Generally I am a fan of Jim Tracy, but can someone please explain why in the world he insists on bringing in Brazoban in non-save situations? He rarely (if ever) brought Gagne in to the game in non save situations, why would he bring a guy who has been struggling recently into the game when the game is tied.

All too often I see managers bring in their closers when the game is tied, only to see them give up a run and take the loss. How many losses does Brazoban have least 6. I would say a good portion of those are due to him giving up a run in non-save many games are we back now? Take back those games in which Brazoban has blown it, we could be 2-3 games back instead of 5.

If Yhency is going to be our closer, then build up his confidence in knowing he's our man...don't bring him into the game only to give up a walk to one of the fastest guys in the league and then take the loss. He has pitched well in the last few games after he had that one week where he blew a few games in a span of a week, then this happens. I blame this loss on Jim Tracy.

I haven't posted in a while...I AM PISSED!

2005-07-27 22:17:26
404.   Tommy Naccarato
Oz, not a problem.
2005-07-27 22:18:20
405.   bokonon42
The difference between a division win/play-off run, and not, is not going to be Phillips. Right? Does anybody really think it'll come down to a couple of stolen bases? Or less than steller production for the catcher? He's fine. It'll be better when he isn't the starter anymore, but he's fine, and cheap.
2005-07-27 22:18:41
406.   Dodgersrock24
As of right now, Depodesta and McCourt are talking. Maybe at the trading deadline they should get a catcher who can throw someone out. As a Dodger fan I am embarrassed after watching what Freel did today. I think Mike Rose could've thrown Freel out once.
2005-07-27 22:18:54
407.   Steve
I don't understand why it is worse to blow a non-save situation than to blow a save situation. You lose either way.

Braz came into the ninth because he is our man. And he lost. So what?

2005-07-27 22:20:54
408.   capdodger
395 -

The point is he gives up home runs and other hits because he's tiring and losing it not the other way around.

The home run, and subsequent hits and walks, are a symptom of the problem. Jimbo needs to recognize when his pitcher is gassed and go to the pen irrespective of whatever crud he has to march out of there. It's better than a weaver who's thrown 90+ pitches.

As an aside, Weaver is, by no means, the only pitcher like this. Pedro is much the same way. Lights out before 95 or so pitches and decidely human afterwards.

2005-07-27 22:21:34
409.   Christina
403 - you know, I actually have some sympathy for the argument that certain closers really don't like non-save situations. For instance, I'm inclined to take Gagne at his word that he does better in saves than he would as a starter.

But a tied game in the 9th? It may not count statistically as a save, but in terms of the pressure involved, I feel it's very much comparable to coming in to hold onto a small lead. If a game is tied in the 9th and we're playing to win it in the 9th, the closer should bloody well be able to handle it.

Alvarez is my main problem with Tracy's decision-making tonight.

2005-07-27 22:22:34
410.   the OZ
403 - that's an interesting point, and I think it can be explained this way:

Tracy didn't use Gagne in tie situations because, typically, Brazoban was available. I don't necessarily agree with the logic, but I can appreciate it, I guess [but using Carrara in those situations, like that game in AZ - just wrong on every level].

Now that we're missing one of our top 2 relievers in Gagne, Tracy doesn't have the luxury of the pair of aces (not that I'm sold on Braz as a bullpen ace, but that seems to be how he's perceived for lack of an alternative). If Braz were the one hurt, and not Gagne, I'm sure we'd see Gagne's usage pattern change to what we're seeing with Braz now.

It's basically a lack of alternatives resulting from being one "top" reliever short.

2005-07-27 22:22:41
411.   Bob Timmermann
When Eric Young stole 6 bases, it was against the Dodgers and Mike Piazza surrendered 10 overall.

Of course, Piazza hit a little bit better.

But in 1996 Piazza had 155 runners steal against him and he threw out just 34.

2005-07-27 22:22:43
412.   Steve
Well, we could have seen Schmoll tonight too. A game without Schmoll gives me withdrawals.
2005-07-27 22:24:21
413.   overkill94
You're in the minority there greenchris, most of us here wish our closer would come inot more situations like tonight. It's not like he got rocked, he unfortunately walked one of the fastest guys in the game and was victim to a crappy catcher and not slide-stepping. I don't think tonight will hurt Yhency's confidence.
2005-07-27 22:24:44
414.   greenchris
Brazoban's record since Gagne went back on the DL when brought into the game when the game is tied... 0wins - 3losses.

He has 2 blown saves out of 10 opportunities.

2005-07-27 22:25:24
415.   Steve
Tracy often used Gagne in that situation. Not enough for my taste, but it often occurred.
2005-07-27 22:26:20
416.   Bob Timmermann
In a 1-1 game tonight, Bochy brought in Hoffman to pitch the 9th. La Russa left his starter in the game in the bottom of the 9th.
2005-07-27 22:26:49
417.   Steve
Sample Size Me!
2005-07-27 22:28:17
418.   the OZ
414 - Well, he's had some trouble lately for sure. But is it cause for drastic action? Is there a great relief pitcher available that won't gut the farm of major-league roster to be had in trade? Competition for top relievers tends to be the fiercest during trade season, when all the top clubs look to bolster the pen for the playoffs.

This is our bullpen. It's not going to get a significant upgrade outside of perhaps Broxton or Kuo or both, because upgrades either aren't available or worth the price.

2005-07-27 22:28:25
419.   capdodger
Addendum to 408:
Got carried away with the hyperbole by bringing up Pedro in a discussion of Weaver. I didn't mean to imply that they are on similar levels, simply that pitch counts seem to have similar effects on effectiveness.

Please forgive me?

2005-07-27 22:30:20
420.   Dodgersrock24
I said to myself after the game against the Mets on Sunday, that if the Dodgers go 50-55 at the end of July, they would be in great shape, but now after tonights loss, I'm worried if they'll even get to 49 wins by the end of the month.
2005-07-27 22:31:07
421.   sanchez101
according to BP, phillips has been 8 worse than the average catcher defensively. Thats before tonight. Over the rest of the season, his defense will cost us about one win as compared to a average defensive catcher. Oh, and he's putting up a .235 EQA. PECOTA's 50% eqa coming into the season for Navarro is .238. So its not as if were talking about looking outside of the organization or and we wont suffer offensively either. Why not give him a shot? I think its pretty plain and simple, if the dodgers are serious about this season, they need to at least give navarro a chance, there is nothing to loose and a whole lot to gain.
2005-07-27 22:36:21
422.   jpeace
Yeah i hope losing a game like this brings Depo to the realization that he should call up some young arms and bring back Navarro.

When the game is tied in the 9th, why shouldn't the best guy from the pen come in with the top of the order coming up? I agree with 407, Braz is our man right now. The only other guy in the pen i would trust is Schmoll.

2005-07-27 22:37:07
423.   greenchris
I understand there probably won't be a significant upgrade in the bullpen at the trade deadline, but my main point is that we have an inconsistent closer who (IMO) is battling confidence issues (he's lost 6 games for us this year). I don't think the manager should use a closer who's been thrown into that role for other than save situations.

Regarding Gagne, during his stretch where he did save those games, it was only when he was brought into the game when it was tied that he would take the losses. Tracy RARELY used him in thos situations. I understand we had Mota/Brazoban back then.

My main point is that Brazoban since being handed the closer role has not been as consistent as the team needs him to be. Why bring him into the role of "stopper" in a tie game and ask him to hold that tie? HE's supposed to close out games. He's 0 & 3 in the tie game situations. That's enough for me to say NO MORE TIE GAME SITUATIONS FOR BRAZOBAN! Bring in Schmoll in that situation...I don't care, just not Brazoban.

2005-07-27 22:40:59
424.   natepurcell
weaver looks very stoned. I bet he grows his own supply.
2005-07-27 22:42:58
425.   Jon Weisman
403 - Considering that Brazoban has pitched most of his young career in non-save situations, this is an odd comment.

With all due respect to Ryan Freel, if you're afraid to have Yhency Brazoban face him in any situation, you've got bigger problems than what you've described.

Brazoban is just inconsistent right now, period. Distinguishing between save and non-save situations is pointless.

393 - Tommy, what prompted that remark?

2005-07-27 22:43:26
426.   Steve
Who cares how many losses he has other than Joe Morgan and John Kruk?
2005-07-27 22:43:41
427.   capdodger
Heh.. Even more posts today than yesterday's record setting thread. Just wait until that Neel story runs.
2005-07-27 22:44:33
428.   the OZ
423 -

Regarding Gagne, during his stretch where he did save those games, it was only when he was brought into the game when it was tied that he would take the losses.

Of course. The reason Gagne took losses in tie games is that when you allow any runs in that situation, you're on the hook for the loss BY DEFINITION. Gagne gave up runs when he was saving games, too, it's just that he had a 2 or 3 run lead some of the time, so those runs didn't result in a W/L decision.

That's really a non-issue. Much ahs been made about how Gagne could or couldn't pitch when a save wasn't on the line. In those cases, W/L record is irrelevant since tie games are more likely to result in ANY decision for a pitcher since only one run is required, either way.

2005-07-27 22:45:18
429.   jpeace
I don't think Tracy's past decisions for Gagne should set precedent for how we use Braz. Gagne had success because he was a very good pitcher-- he is a different animal than Yhancy.
2005-07-27 22:47:20
430.   Jon Weisman
"Much has been made about how Gagne couldn't pitch when a save wasn't on the line."

- which, as I've shown in the past, is a complete myth brought on by selective memory

2005-07-27 22:48:39
431.   greenchris
Understandable that he has pitched in non-save situations in his career. But to my understanding, and everyone else on the board, this year he is our closer.

Same guy who has been inconsistent, but has been asked to have the huevos to close out a game. Why screw with his confidence?

2005-07-27 22:49:55
432.   Steve
Yhency and Duaner are young and they are going to get better. Yhency has had a WHIP problem since he came up last year, and it was part of what came back to get him again tonight. Right now, we are doing what we need to do in the situation we are in, taking some lumps with very little at stake in order to improve these guys. Duaner, Braz, and Schmoll should be getting the vast majority of innings going forward, just like Perez and Choi should be playing as much as possible. These guys need the experience now, when it doesn't count, so they have a better chance of producing when it does count.

Or we could trade for...Danys Baez. Icky. No trading for relief pitchers. What a waste.

2005-07-27 22:49:56
433.   dzzrtRatt
The problem with the Dodgers is staring us in the face, and the answer is not Adam Dunn. It is a new closer. Braz is promising, even great at times. I'm sure the same could be said for Broxton, but neither of them are experienced closers (there I said it again). There is a cascading effect from not having a good closer. It means...

Manager keeps his starter in one inning too long to keep the bullpen out of the game;
Manager goes to unreliable mid-reliever who usually puts gasoline on fire;
Manager goes to next-most reliable pitcher, with mixed results;
Manager goes to set-up-man as closer, who has the skills but not the experience or guts to perform in that role.

Adam Dunn will not solve this problem! He won't add enough runs to our total to offset the late inning blown games, which is the Dodgers' number one problem this year. We aren't getting blown out; we're letting games slip away in the last three innings. That didn't happen often during the 2002-04 seasons, because we had a reliable closer.

DePo's mission is to bring in Danys Baez, or failing that, Eddie Guardado. We can't afford both a new closer and Dunn. In the process of bringing in a closer we will lose an important prospect. But if we get value in return, we're jake.

If (big if) Gagne can resume his role next spring, we can trade our new closer for other good prospects. There's always a demand, and none of the pitchers I've mentioned are expensive. But if Gagne can't go, we'll be covered, thus meeting DePo's criterion that we help ourselves in '05 and beyond.

End of sermon.

2005-07-27 22:51:41
434.   natepurcell
a little heads up, justin orenduff starts for the suns tomorrow at 4:05 PT. Orenduff in is last 13 innings, has allowed 0ER and struck out 14.
so we can have another double header tomorrow- dodgers at 12, suns at 4, yay.
2005-07-27 22:52:23
435.   Jon Weisman
431 - this is what doesn't make sense with your argument. How come putting him in a tie game tests his confidence to an intolerable extreme, but giving him a chance to blow a lead does not?

Who's your choice for tie games, then? The oh-so-consistent Carrara, Sanchez, Alvarez, Dessens, Schmoll or Erickson?

2005-07-27 22:53:06
436.   greenchris
"The reason Gagne took losses in tie games is that when you allow any runs in that situation, you're on the hook for the loss BY DEFINITION. Gagne gave up runs when he was saving games, too, it's just that he had a 2 or 3 run lead some of the time, so those runs didn't result in a W/L decision."

So why bring Brazoban into the game where he's on the hook when he has been so inconsistent? If he's our man, why screw with his confidence for the remainder of the season? That's all I am saying.

2005-07-27 22:53:14
437.   capdodger
Jon wrote a very good entry on the Gange the Closer vs. Gange the Pitcher in Other Situations. Its essential conclusion was that Gange is a good pitcher regardless.

Yhancy is not Gange. He's a converted outfielder learning to pitch still. To say that Tracy should handle Yhancy like he handled Gange is wrong. The two represent entirely different pitchers in entirely different circumstances.

2005-07-27 22:54:22
438.   Steve
432, 433 -- just one second difference, but oh what a difference!

What is wrong with Braz's confidence? I don't understand this.

2005-07-27 22:55:50
439.   capdodger
436 - Who else is out there? Carrera? Alvarez was used. Schmoll pitched yesterday and the day before. Is Dessens still on the team? When was the last time he pitched? There are three long men down in the pen.
2005-07-27 22:56:39
440.   greenchris
Hey Jon,

Good question...who's your choice?

Mine is anyone but Brazoban as his record in those situations indicate.

2005-07-27 22:58:29
441.   jpeace
Jon brings up a good point about selective memory.

If not for the internet and TV my memory of Gagne would be very distorted. In every Dodger game i have attended in the past few years the Dodgers were either:

A. Down a few runs in the ninth (no Gagne)
B. Had Gagne blow a save or non save situation. ( This includes the blown save against Arizona before the mythical streak)
Woe is me.

2005-07-27 22:58:32
442.   the OZ
430 - I was agreeing with your work in 428; I'm not sure that 430 was directed at me but that was the point of 428: there is no real difference, and also that using W-L record as an evaluative criterion is an especially bad idea since you're more likely to get a Loss than in a save situation.
2005-07-27 22:59:17
443.   Steve
440 -- Because Carrara has six wins and Brazoban has six losses, you'd rather have Carrara? Please. That's dumb luck.
2005-07-27 23:00:50
444.   dzzrtRatt
If I rephrase my post in saber-speak (which doesn't recognize the closer as a specific role), why wouldn't it make all the sense in the world to bring in a good, experienced pitcher who has a record of success in pitching, especially during the innings between the 8th and the post-game show? How is it a "waste" to add a good pitcher? Especially when pitching breakdowns have done most of the damage this season?
2005-07-27 23:01:28
445.   capdodger
440 - Erickson then? He fits the anyone but Yhancy mold.
2005-07-27 23:03:10
446.   capdodger
440- And furthermore, if Gange were around would you be begging Tracy not to bring in Gange in the 9th at home in a tied game?
2005-07-27 23:03:30
447.   Jim Hitchcock
2005-07-27 23:07:04
448.   Steve
It's starting pitching breakdowns that have done the most damage this season. If you look at the bullpen as a whole, it is about your average bullpen. Braz has had some setbacks, and the ERA to show it, but that is what happens when you are a short reliever and have some bad innings. But I do not believe that picking up a middling relief pitcher for an extortionate price will have that much effect on this team. Repko is still playing for crying out loud.

I am not against trading for anyone if you can get rid of say, a Kaz Ishii to a retard like Omar Minaya. But giving up anybody one would term a "prospect" for a closer might get us from 71 to 73 wins, but do nothing to solve the bigger problem, which is what we're going to do for the first eight innings before we get to the closer. We probably don't have this discussion if Weaver was as good as everyone around here thinks he is. :)

2005-07-27 23:09:11
449.   Jon Weisman
442 - No, it wasn't directed at you - just wanted to reinforce the point to those who weren't familiar.

440 - I think Steve in 438 raises the other obvious point. Just how did you decide Brazoban's problem was a confidence problem?

Who's my choice? My choice is if the game is on the line, no matter what the inning, use the best available pitcher. Period.

2005-07-27 23:09:11
450.   greenchris else do you explain his recent inconsitency? Mechanics? Phillips? Umpires?

I just hate losing. When I watch a guy who's supposed to be our closer come in and lose the game for us, it pisses me off.

Understandable about using a W-L record when evaluating, however, he has been thrown into that situation 3 times in a month and a half. He's lost all 3. Luck?

Show/Hide Comments 451-500
2005-07-27 23:11:52
451.   regfairfield
450 -

Read these:
(Ignore the personal horn tootalage here)

Then comment.

2005-07-27 23:12:15
452.   natepurcell
i agree with steve that this season is basically a wash and you want your bullpen guys that will be with the team in the future getting as much work as them can to take the bumps in player development now.

so that means that ghame over, dirty d and its a schmoll world should work the majority of the innings.

2005-07-27 23:12:54
453.   capdodger
448. We probably don't have this discussion if Weaver was as good as everyone around here thinks he is. :)

He's a 5-6 inning pitcher who, with a little luck and a good buzz, will spin off a few bonus innings every other start or two. Lots of people seem to get that except the two or three guys that matter.

2005-07-27 23:13:23
454.   Jon Weisman
How about something as simple as the hitters have adjusted to him, and he's still in the process of adjusting back? As is the story of baseball throughout time. I mean, you make Brazoban sound as fragile as Steve Sax trying to throw the ball to first base and missing by 20 yards.
2005-07-27 23:14:30
455.   brendan glynn
I'm just going to shake this loss off. Dodgers are 5 back in a very winnable division. they need to make some upgrades with a trade and some callups but it doesn't have to be major(but I wouldn't mind).

Keep the Faith. One game One bad game but I'm still in a better mood than I was 10 games ago.

I think Tommy N means that this sitcom has reached its zenith and we are going to have crappy episodes from now on until we are cancelled. Or he watches too may Happy Days reruns in between Diamondback games.your pick.

2005-07-27 23:15:47
456.   jpeace
Is our bullpen really average? With Gagne and Wunch gone, and Erickson still on the roster?

Regarding all this talk about confidence, maybe JT would actually pull Weaver before a meltdown if he had confidence in that the pen could keep a lead.

2005-07-27 23:18:47
457.   Bob Timmermann
Jose Canseco had 462 home runs.

He's next in line for us.

2005-07-27 23:21:34
458.   capdodger
How exactly was Wunch injured? Was it tripping on the bullpen steps, or was it an actual pitching related injury on his last warmup toss?
2005-07-27 23:22:03
459.   Steve
"When I watch a guy who's supposed to be our closer come in and lose the game for us, it pisses me off."

Well, yeah. Nobody around here understands being pissed off more than me. But there are about 300+ pitchers in major league baseball, many of them are middle relievers, and many of them would do exactly what Brazoban is doing.

Look at everybody's favorite overrated eighth inning pitcher, Guillermo Mota. He had a very nice first year, followed by two years of virtually unspeakable crappiness. He had a replacement level '02, then a very good '03 and '04 which had everybody drooling about the "best setup man in baseball" blah blah blah. Whatever. Relief pitchers are like NASDAQ and craps -- play the hot hand and get out of Dodge.

Braz just turned 25. He is young, he has good stuff, he is refining it, and he has potential.

Imagine being the Giants right now. Locked into horrendous contracts with yesterday's mediocrities, not to mention tomorrow's. Aging and old and decrepit with a farm system that resembles the best of Kevin Malone's days.

Let Braz play and work it out. Then he can have a couple of good years, we can flip him for the only decent starting pitcher on the team, and everyone can whine for a year about it.

2005-07-27 23:27:40
460.   capdodger
459 - Steve,
That will only work if we package him with a fan favorite who's about to get a major payday and take a turn for the worst. How about one of those catching prospects after they make it to the bigs and become the "Heirs of Lo Duca"?
2005-07-27 23:27:45
461.   brendan glynn

that and the Barry Bonds one was funny

2005-07-27 23:30:22
462.   dzzrtRatt
456-- Succinctly put, and exactly right. Jim Tracy was a lot less stupid when he had Gagne.

453 -- a goodly number of excellent pitchers are six-inning pitchers. When Tracy decides a worn-out Weaver in the seventh inning is his best option, it's because the bullpen is less than mediocre.

449 -- Who's my choice? My choice is if the game is on the line, no matter what the inning, use the best available pitcher. Period. The problem is, we don't have enough "available pitchers" who are "best" to get us through a good week. The cast of characters out in that bullpen has to change. And my guess is that's where the trade focus is right this moment.

2005-07-27 23:31:21
463.   popup
Pitchers are the ones who end up with wins and losses, but in this game I do think Phillips is the one who should get tagged with the loss. I don't understand all the negative comments about Brazabon tonight. Sure he gave up the lead off walk (never a good idea) but Freel should have been out at second on the pitch out. I for one hope that Mike Rose gets more playing time from here to the end of the year.

Stan from Tacoma

2005-07-27 23:31:44
464.   Steve
Primer just posted a B-more Sun story saying that Baltimore wants Perez or Weaver and the Dodgers want Melvin Mora in return.
2005-07-27 23:33:44
465.   Steve
I should rephrase. The O's have mentioned Perez and Weaver..."want" being a relative term.

"Jim Tracy was a lot less stupid when he had Gagne."

Not really.

2005-07-27 23:33:46
466.   capdodger
Stan - It was a one out walk, not a leadoff, but that's a nitpick
2005-07-27 23:34:10
467.   regfairfield
I would be perfectly okay with Weaver for Mora.
2005-07-27 23:36:18
468.   Steve
"The Devil Rays' Danys Baez is a long shot because of the difficulty in dealing with Rays G.M. Chuck LaMar."


Why does he still have a job?

2005-07-27 23:38:34
469.   Suffering Bruin

Way, way too tired to post about the game I attended tonight with the following:

Rob's wife
Surfpunk (still waiting for first post)

Suffice to say the game was like a roller coaster when at the end of the ride everybody throws up. The top of the ninth was enough to make a grown man cry.

I'll let others fill in the detaiLS as I am
a) exhausted and
b) studying like a madmen so I can educate younguns in English

but I wanted to say that tonight was a heckuva lot of fun and for a guy who has been studying non-stop for 17 straight days, a fun time was desperately needed. Thanks to all who attended.

2005-07-27 23:38:50
470.   natepurcell
Primer just posted a B-more Sun story saying that Baltimore wants Perez or Weaver and the Dodgers want Melvin Mora in return.

i dont understand wanting mora. he is 33 yrs old already.

2005-07-27 23:41:01
471.   Bob Timmermann
We've gone past Canseco and Winfield.

Stargell and Musial await us at 475.

2005-07-27 23:43:01
472.   regfairfield
I think a near .420 OBP the last two seasons makes him a good candidate. Oh yeah, and this:

2005 Salary: $3,833,333

He's under contract through at least 2006 (I don't know when it actually expires, just not this year.

2005-07-27 23:47:48
473.   Jim Hitchcock
469 - Like I said, rats.

Would like to thank SB for being such a good host. It was a lot of fun.

Snap judgement, but SB's gonna make an exceptional teacher. The man has command presence!

2005-07-27 23:50:35
474.   bokonon42
472- .420 ODP Last year and the year before. Is he just having a bad year, or has he been injured? Because the last thing we need is another fragile 400+ OBP artist.
2005-07-27 23:51:34
475.   capdodger
So if that deal came to pass, the 3B situation would be hammered down. This would raise two questions:

1) What do the Dodgers do with the 3rd Basemen Committee with which they currently operate?

2) What about that spot in the rotation? Another trade? Three-way? Four-Way or More-Way? Call-up? Or my personal favorite option: Lord Choi to the rescue.

2005-07-27 23:55:06
476.   bokonon42
474- Hard to say, but I might have meant OBP. Or that could be Mora's gangsta rap pseudonym.
2005-07-27 23:58:48
477.   capdodger
*472- .420 ODP Last year...
474- ... Or that could be Mora's gangsta rap pseudonym. *

More likely a posse of Weaver and Perez.

2005-07-27 23:59:48
478.   alex 7
Melvin Mora is what Perez will be as a full time starter in a year or two: a .290/340/470
hitter with the ability to steal 15-20 basea a year. Don't really see why you make that swap and trade almost 10 years of age difference and a great contract. Is Perez' D that bad?
2005-07-28 00:00:30
479.   natepurcell
moras OBP is down a lot this year from his past 2 years.

right now hes at:
.300 .360 .492

i think the average and power would take a little bit of a dip going from balt to LA, but still very productive. i doubt the orioles trade him though, especially for weaver. maybe for odalis though.

2005-07-28 00:09:29
480.   bokonon42
478- Perez=Odalis Perez (Od.P)
2005-07-28 00:11:59
481.   natepurcell
interesting. i have a friend whos an intern for bavasi and the mariners and he gives me a little heads up on rumors sometimes. he said theres a lot of talk about dunn around the league but the reds are asking the moon and he told me guzman was #1 player the reds are asking from depo.
2005-07-28 00:13:49
482.   bokonon42
At least super-stud Dessens would finally get back in to the rotation, if Weaver or Od.P. get the heave-ho. No matter what, DePo has to get rid of two IFs, either to AAA or some other team. Three if he picks up Mora.
2005-07-28 00:18:30
483.   brendan glynn
i'm underwhelmed by that Mora trade rumor so maybe it's good
2005-07-28 00:29:30
484.   bokonon42
Is the biggest difference between Dessens and Weaver is that Tracy knows not to push his luck with Dessens, or the 8 million bucks?
2005-07-28 00:42:43
485.   capdodger
Were there many rumours flying about THE TRADE before it happened? If there weren't I'm not going to believe anything I read or hear until I see a number I don't recognize on the field.
2005-07-28 01:00:12
486.   bokonon42
Too bad the Rockies rule fived Marcos Carvajal away from the Dodgers. 42IP and a 3.86ERA with his home games at Coors. Huh, how weird; the split:

Home 2.91ERA 16G 21.2IP 2HR 8BB 12K .224BAA
Away 5.71ERA 13G 17.1IP 1HR 7BB 15K .284BAA

Even weirder, actually, since 21.2+17.1=39, not 42. And he's going more than one inning per app. What might have been. . .

2005-07-28 01:11:05
487.   bokonon42
486- The splits are off because they didn't include what he did tonight (technically last night)-- three shut-out innings with six strikeouts, no walks, and two hits. Not that the Dodgers could have used that line tonight. Anyway, it means his Coors ERA is 2.55 over 24.2 IP. Spooky.
2005-07-28 01:19:25
488.   Strike4
Tough to not be wistful for past times this season. Just one year ago, July 27, 2004 (although it seems like forever) the Dodgers lost to Colorado 7-2 with starters Izturis, Werth, Lo Duca, Beltre, Bradley, Green, Encarnacion and Cora.

If the genius could have contented himself with the Kent signing, then he could be focusing on fixing the bullpen and selectively bringing up youngsters now.

Instead, there's a trainwreck to unscramble with no real pressure to do anything now because revenues are high. He's succeeded at his boss' likely real objective of improving profit through lowering the payroll.

2005-07-28 01:50:59
489.   dzzrtRatt
Why has Melvin Mora played over 140 games in only two years of his major league career?

I read somewhere that the Indians might be willing to trade Bob Wickman. So move him in front of Baez on our shopping list.

2005-07-28 03:14:49
490.   bokonon42
488- This year isn't a train wreck. It's disappointing, but that isn't the same thing. Last year's lineup (even subbing Kent for Cora) with this year's numbers would be much worse. Maybe even a train wreck.

This year's line-ups have produced 4.34 runs a game vs. 4.70 from last year's. That's less than the difference between the 4.73 runs allowed per game this year vs. 4.22 last year. Beltre wasn't the only lucky fluke last year. Jose Hernandez, Lima, Mota, Duaner, Gio, and Yhency all had atypically good years (that's probably a stupid thing to say about the rookies, but I'm okay with that). Last year's team really wasn't as good as it's numbers.

Do you have any reason to believe DePo doesn't care about winning? Is there anything you know about him that would lead you to that conclusion? It's pretty catty to imply it, if you don't.

2005-07-28 03:17:49
491.   bokonon42
Um, actually, it was probably exactly as good as its numbers. It probably wasn't as good as the number of wins it produced would tend to indicate. Lots of luck, last year. Precious little this year.
2005-07-28 07:45:47
492.   Marty
A great time was had at the ballpark last night. A great bunch of guys. Many thanks to Suffering Bruin for putting it together. We were treated to a fun, though disappointing game. After seeing Dunn both Monday and Wednesday, I'm not so keen on giving up the farm for him. Dodger stadium may really cut down his offensive numbers (large sample size, right?). He also looks very slow in the field. First base is the only place for him it seerms to me.
I was on field-level Monday and reserved level last night and the food/beer selection is much better on reserved for some reason. You can get Gorden Biersch beer and garlic fries, where all I saw on field-level was dogs and Budweiser.
2005-07-28 07:51:16
493.   brendan glynn
489. dzzrtRatt
Why has Melvin Mora played over 140 games in only two years of his major league career?

From what I recall Mora was a super sub in the mold of a Figgins for awhile and did not have one position. played all over the place and quite well when he did play.

2005-07-28 08:35:15
494.   Howard Fox
Top 3 reasons we lost last night:

#3 - Brazoban walks Freel in the 9th

#2 - Jason Phillips - someone has to explain to him that the only player who should go into a windup prior to throwing the ball is the pitcher

and the #1 reason we lost - once again, Tracy leaves Weaver in long after the opposition starts teeing off on him

2005-07-28 09:05:27
495.   Colorado Blue
Top 3 Reasons We Lost Last Night:
3. Jason Phillips throws like my sister.
2. Jason Phillips throws like my sister.
1. Jason Phillips throws like my sister.

Yes, JT left Weavs in too long... but we expect that. I don't think Ghame walking Freel was that bad... untimely, yes! EXCEPT in the sense that is a) Freel and b) my sister was catching. Freel getting 3rd rests entirely on Phillips shoulders as far as I'm concerned.

Duaner gave a leadoff double to someone who did not advance at all. Freel was exceptional last night; and Phillips, well...

2005-07-28 09:09:11
496.   db1022
Call it denial, call it acceptance, call it only 5 games back.

We're still a team that is 9 games under .500. You have to expect to lose games like that.

I still think we've got a run at SD in us, and I'd like to see us beef up the roster before 8/1, but we shouldn't be so shocked to lose a game like that.

2005-07-28 09:10:48
497.   Howard Fox
Duaner was cooking last night, someone told him to stop nibbling and blow them down...

The walk to Freel was a reason, those walks always seem to come around to score. A great hitter bats .325, in other words, he makes out 67.5% of the time...Freel is good but not great, you have to make him swing the bat...

Back to Jason Phillips, every time he went to throw he goes into this big windup, by the time he is about to throw the ball, it is already too late...the great throwing catchers get rid of the ball in an instant.

2005-07-28 09:13:51
498.   Joe Morgan
The most annoying thing about brazoban and gio is that they seem to walk the lead off guy every other outing.

The most annoying thing about phillips is that he can't throw anyone out.

2005-07-28 09:20:30
499.   Joe Morgan
from will carroll (baseball prospectus):

"The Angels aren't yet pressing the panic button. Still, they're stunned at how quickly Steve Finley has declined. "

how could the Angels be "shocked"? Do they think Finley is immortal?

2005-07-28 09:21:31
500.   Colorado Blue
497 - Point taken... yes, Ghame should have gone after Freel. Still, the "windup" of Phillips was glaring; I couldn't believe how long it took him to get rid of the ball. Additionally, his throws were way off the mark.
Show/Hide Comments 501-550
2005-07-28 09:22:26
501.   Howard Fox
499 - and everyone belittled the McCourts for not ponying up for Finley and raved about Moreno on how great an owner he is...
2005-07-28 09:22:37
502.   Colorado Blue
499 - Finley will heat up in August/September and the rest of his season will be forgotten.
2005-07-28 09:24:22
503.   Howard Fox
500 - off the mark, on the mark, doesn't matter....47000 people there knew Freel was going from 1st, then from 2nd, why didn't Brazoban or Tracy know this? By the time Braz releases the ball Freel is half way there, by the time Phillips releases the ball, Freel is dusting himself off...
2005-07-28 09:26:14
504.   Howard Fox
502-if he's not on the DL
2005-07-28 09:27:01
505.   Joe Morgan
Beltre, Finley, Cora, Lima non-signings were all good moves this offseason.

It's a shame that we will never field our full force team this year. I was hoping to shut up the nay-sayers.

2005-07-28 09:27:49
506.   Howard Fox
505 - I agree with you
2005-07-28 09:30:11
507.   Howard Fox
I have noticed lately, that even ESPN, which has a serious bent against the west coast and particularly against the Dodgers, has been saying that you can't fault the Dodger season on DePodesta or McCourt due to all the injuries, that no team could survive what they have gone through.
2005-07-28 09:58:49
508.   regfairfield
To say that Jason Phillips is the sole reason we lost that game is amazingly off the mark.

1. Our pitchers can not hold runners. Something needs to be done about this. I know all of our starters are below average in time to the plate. I'm not sure about the relievers.

2. They scored six other runs. Someone has to take the blame for those.

The stolen base is an amazingly low yield play. Yeah, we lost this one game to it, but it's a weakness I'm willing to accept.

2005-07-28 10:05:18
509.   Joe Morgan
I would like an opinion on something - Does anyone here understand why Depo seems to give Tracy free reign on how the team is run? Why doesn't Depo do anything about the Choi situation, for example? Why doesn't depo get on Tracy's case for leaving Weaver in beyond 90 pitches when Weaver has imploded for the last 2 years when going over 90 pitches?
2005-07-28 10:32:32
510.   Joe Morgan
One of the Dbacks top prospects Conor Jackson was called up. Check out the reprocussions:

"The move was made after the Diamondbacks' 3-0 victory over the Milwaukee Brewers. Manager Bob Melvin said the 23-year-old Jackson will share time with Tony Clark at first base, with Chad Tracy moving from first to right field. Shawn Green will go from right to center."

2005-07-28 14:45:47
511.   Strike4
Interesting that you can pull stats that quick... great. The erosion in runs allowed would indict the fielding lineup along with the pitching, however, so last year's team may well be better even based on your statistics.

Sure Depodesta wants to field a winner, but he's budget handicapped. The sabremetric-optimized Dodger team at $88 million will not win championships. Until revenues start eroding, this same team is desired by the owner for profitability reasons.

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